Starting to have my doubts

The Mt. Ortorten incident in the former Soviet Union stood out to me, no one can explain how 9 people died in the middle of the wilderness with radiation burns, crushed bones and organs (with no external skin damage), and one guy even had his tongue removed. There were no footprints in the snow that did not belong to the hikers themselves, red orbs were reported in the area around the time the incident occurred.

www.forteantimes.com...

Originally posted by Rekrul
knowledge and intelligence are two different things. if you really want to make your mind up, put all those books aside and view the night skies yourself. they're everywhere.

When i was a teenager i had a telescope, i spent MANY hours outside "looking up", even in Winter and when other people slept, other people had other interests while i was being a nerd with a telescope I have not seen one UFO.

HOWEVER - i have seen *plenty* of uneducated and ignorant people (also here on the forum) who mistake planets , stars, meteors etc. as UFOs. In fact, i have seen people getting HYSTERICAL because they saw Jupiter near the moon.

So..who is the "knowledgeable" here?

I like the OPs post a lot, it could be mine except that i am into the subject for MUCH longer already. Great and honest post.

reply to post by StarPeace

I borrowed this image from another thread. Makes me feel insignificant in the scheme of things. Heres us looking at us:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/727acd3be478.jpg[/atsimg]

This image of Earth (on the left) and the moon (on the right) was taken by NASA's Juno spacecraft on Aug. 26, 2011, when the spacecraft was about 6 million miles (9.66 million kilometers) away. It was taken by the spacecraft's onboard camera, JunoCam. The solar-powered Juno spacecraft lifted off from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida on Aug. 5 to begin a five-year journey to Jupiter. Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech

And to add to the OP and the general "frustration":

As it is with the UFO phenomenon, you can read many actually GOOD books (i am not talking about the nut cases)...the "problem" is that reading "many books" just will result in more questions.

It's the never-ending science/research which can NEVER end since it does what it does for decades/centuries already: Confuse people and not provide answers. It gets frustrating.

To top this up..it gets more complicated with a certain breed of authors and researchers (eg. Alien Abductions, or some of Jaques Valee's books etc) where it becomes evident that the Alien/UFO phenomenon MUST not be necessarily a "physical" phenomenon but tends to be more based on something physical/spiritual/metaphysical...then it gets really complicated to even grasp what's really behind it.

Originally posted by lizardman
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

That my friend is a beautiful story. I commend you for opening all of our eyes as to how big the universe is. But you see the problem is It is so far to another galaxy it is hard to comprehend that we could be visited by anyone traveling at those distances.

Exactly!! And thanks!!

However, we have to also consider the fact that human life lasts around 100 years. Now, to a fly, which lives about a week, humans are GODS- to them, we are immortal.

Think of the many species and civilizations that have had billion-year head starts on us....they could have advanced, as we are soon to do, to the point that their lives are extended well beyond hundreds of years.

So......

A trip across the Milky Way Galaxy may be one that certain species could take; it could be equivalent to 5-10 years to us. Humans do not have the longest lif-spans in the universe.

Just because WE can't traverse the galaxy, doesn't mean it's too long for another species to do so.

Originally posted by StarPeace

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Rekrul

 

I've been looking at the sky my entire life, and have yet to see anything unexplained, or unexplainable outside of natural phenomenon, satellites, and man-made aircraft.

I know the visible planets and am well versed in experience with meteors, including the odd bolide, have seen iridium and regular satellite flares, and the ISS too.

Never have I seen anything that could qualify as a UFO, and I've been watching the skies a very long time, not just at night either, but during the day too for skydiving.

It would seem the more educated and familiar someone is about the sky, and what's 'in' it, the less likely they are to ever see anything unexplained. Strange how that works.

Caveman say sky make noise and light and it scary because gods are angry
Meteorologist say, dude, chill, it's just thunder and lightning.

edit on 23-10-2011 by nineix because: (no reason given)

But that's not what the OP is conveying.....they are saying that more than likely, we are IT.

I'm trying to say that I'm having my doubt that aliens are visiting earth.
Of course I believe they may be real on other planets..


edit: lol I'll update my OP with that.

edit on 23-10-2011 by StarPeace because: (no reason given)

Ohhhh...my apollogies

I can agree and say that most space craft that we see are more than likely man-made.....I will grant you that

However, I am an Ancient Alien Theorists, so I have to disagree that we have ever been visited or could be still being visited by extraterrestrials....

Look at the pyramids and the ancient writings/drawings that depicted planets and stars that we have only come to know in the last century...

The gods and angels of the bible were extraterrestrial indeed, and they frequented Earth.

They had a mission; they wanted Earth's resources. So that tells me that if they (or another species) discovers that Earth has a much-needed resource, they will visit us for sure.

reply to post by StarPeace



I think there are a lot of sincere believers who feel the same why you do. I've been saying this for a while now, the Internet can be your best friend and worst enemy. Sometimes it's just hard to know what to believe, especially when you aren't an expert in CGI. As far as whether or not "they" are here, I do believe but have really lost interest in hoping there will be disclosure. It's almost become like a religious belief for me, I don't need proof and I really don't care if anyone else believes me or not.

To me, the Travis Walton case has always been compelling. He and his friends who witnessed the abduction passed multiple polygraph tests over the years.

Travis Walton

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Ohhhh...my apollogies

I can agree and say that most space craft that we see are more than likely man-made.....I will grant you that

However, I am an Ancient Alien Theorists, so I have to disagree that we have ever been visited or could be still being visited by extraterrestrials....

Look at the pyramids and the ancient writings/drawings that depicted planets and stars that we have only come to know in the last century...

The gods and angels of the bible were extraterrestrial indeed, and they frequented Earth.

They had a mission; they wanted Earth's resources. So that tells me that if they (or another species) discovers that Earth has a much-needed resource, they will visit us for sure.

edit on 23-10-2011 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

What resources would we have that they want? I could see, in potential, a few. Water, air, and biomass. Biomass is necessary for the water and the air. Any kind of mineral or non-biological fuel source (such as radioactive isotopes) could more easily be garnered from asteroids and dead planets, where they can be easily mined without incurring environmental destruction. Heck, with gravity differences, it would even 'cost' less energy to mine from an asteroid than it would to mine from a living planet like Earth.

And I think we can assume if carbon-based life exists elsewhere, it must have been nurtured in an environment that is suited to carbon-based life: water, air, biomass. So we are likely not the only or even necessarily a good source of those, particularly when considering how we've been gleefully poisoning all of the above in the last hundred years.

So honestly, what resources do hypothetical aliens want or need from us? Unless there is something intangible that we somehow produce that they desire, I can't see them coming here for resources.

If they are coming here (I have no doubt that alien life exists, even if the chances are that it's just bacteria), there is probably some other draw than resources. Maybe intelligent, self-aware, sapient life is rare enough that each emergence of a technologically capable species is a huge event out here, and everyone comes by for the 'barn raising' where a species goes from resource-competing little cuthroats to peaceful and civilized. Maybe other species out there are locked into some type of battle for dominance and humans are just another potential chip in the battle - we might not be worth much now, but with a little investment maybe we could be. Maybe visiting places like Earth with species on the cusp of emergence from their planet and messing with their heads is some kind of adolescent rite-of-passage, somewhat like cow-tipping here. Whatever the reason, I doubt they're here for our resources, at least not the non-renewable ones.

Trust me, they are here.

Originally posted by errihu

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Ohhhh...my apollogies

I can agree and say that most space craft that we see are more than likely man-made.....I will grant you that

However, I am an Ancient Alien Theorists, so I have to disagree that we have ever been visited or could be still being visited by extraterrestrials....

Look at the pyramids and the ancient writings/drawings that depicted planets and stars that we have only come to know in the last century...

The gods and angels of the bible were extraterrestrial indeed, and they frequented Earth.

They had a mission; they wanted Earth's resources. So that tells me that if they (or another species) discovers that Earth has a much-needed resource, they will visit us for sure.

edit on 23-10-2011 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

What resources would we have that they want? I could see, in potential, a few. Water, air, and biomass. Biomass is necessary for the water and the air. Any kind of mineral or non-biological fuel source (such as radioactive isotopes) could more easily be garnered from asteroids and dead planets, where they can be easily mined without incurring environmental destruction. Heck, with gravity differences, it would even 'cost' less energy to mine from an asteroid than it would to mine from a living planet like Earth.

And I think we can assume if carbon-based life exists elsewhere, it must have been nurtured in an environment that is suited to carbon-based life: water, air, biomass. So we are likely not the only or even necessarily a good source of those, particularly when considering how we've been gleefully poisoning all of the above in the last hundred years.

So honestly, what resources do hypothetical aliens want or need from us? Unless there is something intangible that we somehow produce that they desire, I can't see them coming here for resources.

If they are coming here (I have no doubt that alien life exists, even if the chances are that it's just bacteria), there is probably some other draw than resources. Maybe intelligent, self-aware, sapient life is rare enough that each emergence of a technologically capable species is a huge event out here, and everyone comes by for the 'barn raising' where a species goes from resource-competing little cuthroats to peaceful and civilized. Maybe other species out there are locked into some type of battle for dominance and humans are just another potential chip in the battle - we might not be worth much now, but with a little investment maybe we could be. Maybe visiting places like Earth with species on the cusp of emergence from their planet and messing with their heads is some kind of adolescent rite-of-passage, somewhat like cow-tipping here. Whatever the reason, I doubt they're here for our resources, at least not the non-renewable ones.

Very true!!

and that wanted resource could very well be us...

Over the past few decades our technology has greatly advanced so is it not possible that alien technology has advanced as well? Is it also not possible that due to these advancements they are better able to conceal themselves from us. I am a strong believer in the ancient alien theory and I also believe that aliens created humans in a sense. My belief is that aliens injected early humans with their DNA to speed up the process of evolution. Then just as parents take care of their children they taught us some of what they know. Now we are older as a race they are making less and less contact with us but they are still watching over us just as a parent does.

reply to post by StarPeace


I think if there were aliens out in space, and were anywhere hear our planet, they would really want to come visit us. I mean, what if suddenly we find evidence of a primitive people in any planet close to us, we would want to visit them. I guess....

Originally posted by Alkolyk
reply to post by nineix

 

Awesome,

Loved theses stats. Very strong point.

Only place I blinked at was the 12,000 something years it would take to "scout" the planets.

It's not out of the question that a sufficiently advanced civilization could have individuals that live for way more than that. Or to simply have 12,000 probes built to do the job and do it in a year. Especially one that travels instantly using imagination, hehe.

edit on 23-10-2011 by Alkolyk because: (no reason given)

You contradict yourself. You have a strong point, not the poster you replied to. He artificially limited himself in his thinking.
You could have billions of probes and billions of years to do it and be immortal. There are many ways to be immortal such as replicating a brain into a new machine or body. You could also hit the off switch if you feel like it just like a computer and turn on again when you reach your destination. The addition of intelligence obviously means you can shorten the odds tremendously by actively looking, not randomly running through space.

Half-baked reasoning is no reasoning at all.

reply to post by jessasaurusreeex



Seriously, this doesn't make sense. There is plenty of evidence backing up the messy evolution of humans. There's also clear pathways as to how humans naturally evolved bigger forebrains and speech e.g. Fox2 mutation. We are just another animal with our own particular talents that by chance have taken control of the Earth. Many of our human species relative only died out relatively recently such as Neanderthals, Floresman and Siberian man and humans themselves once went down to about 10,000 individuals in number. The evidence is all there, go out and learn about it.