Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

reply to post by dreamseeker


Yeah, but if you know you can pay off the loan then take the loan. If you can't then you'll only be fooling yourself. Strive to reduce the cost of education but don't start taking loans out if you can't pay them back, that's how you become a debt slave.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I currently attend college, and federal financial aid is virtually the only reason I am able to

Ron Paul is against why this is true
He is against the roots for your financial difficulties

reply to post by neo96


So I make $12,000 a year and I am supposed to pay $15,000 per year for my education. What would I live on? Did you consider that?

reply to post by PunchingBag80


That is why I said only the rich would get degrees if people could not get loans. What income can a person really afford college? Part of the point of college is too make a higher salary and get out of poverty. When you get out of school there are payment plans that are based off your income. Could a person who makes $50,000 per year really afford $10,000 out of pocket? I doubt it! I believe in an even playing feild; the poor should have just as many oppurtunites as the middle class and rich. I will always defend and stick up for the poor even when I am middle class. I have been middle class before and I still needed college loans!

reply to post by PunchingBag80

How is refusing a loan which means you'll be in debt make you a slave??

Instead of getting a federal student loan, which you will be able to use to better yourself, get a better job, earn more money, and thereby become wealthy. Under Ron Paul's "bifurcation of America into a ruling and serf class" plan, you won't be able to get any loan at all. As a private institution won't give you the loan to begin with, you won't be able to get that college education which is increasingly needed just to get any job whatsoever, and you will end up a menial worker, laid off at a moments notice by employers who can get serfs like yourself wherever.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
So I make $12,000 a year and I am supposed to pay $15,000 per year for my education. What would I live on? Did you consider that?

Anyone can consider that, He is saying eliminate govt. involvement he never said abolish all banks that offer student loans

And not only that get the govt. out and banks will get more competition, more competition and less govt. involvement can very much mean less interest.

Listen, the government should ABSOLUTELY fund education.

Is it their responsibility? Well no.

Is it in their best interests? HELL YES.

This country is going nowhere unless we all start putting great value into education. A mass of idiots is easier controlled than a mass of well educated people. If my tax dollars are going to be spent on all of us then I would prefer they go toward education and health care above all other things.

That being said, the current system of federal aid for college students is bad business. Tuition fees have skyrocketed and continue the trend. This is because so much "free money" is coming from the government in the form of student loans.

Student loans are immune to bankruptcy. This means if you get 100k in student loans, get out of college and get a job (not in the field you studied, because jobs are scarce. You're also not making as much as the projections given to you by your school after graduating, because again, the economy stinks.) So now you have 100k in student loans, a crap job, and on top of that you have various other debt, perhaps a couple credit cards, a car loan, a home loan, etc.

So you get buried in debt and file for bankruptcy. You still owe 100k in student loans. How are you EVER going to get ahead of the game with this massive debt and no prospects for a job that pays enough to reconcile your debt and still have enough left over for the basics of life?

Student loans need to go away, at least in their current form. I don't think people with these loans fully understand what they've gotten themselves into. The federal student loan program is a sham and it's creating little holes for people to fall into and get buried, never to be heard from again.

I have no problem with government GRANTS. There should be plenty room in the budget to finance and support education at ALL LEVELS, but not in the manner under which we are currently doing so. And people keep missing the point of this all..

Stop spending 1 trillion a year and that money comes directly back to you and me. Based on 2009 census data stating there are 307,006,550 people in the USA, that is $3,257 saved, per person, per year. Add to this the fact that tuition will definitely fall without the USG pumping trillions into it, and we all win.

No one is saying education is not important or shouldn't be funded. If we stopped paying for these programs on a federal level we would have more reason to expect states to offer similar programs. Additionally states would have additional resources to make them happen.

reply to post by dreamseeker


Cry me a river dude i drove 80 miles a day working 2 jobs 14 hours a day and paid my own way.

What are you to do? Whatever it takes instead of waiting for someone to hand it to you.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Listen, the government should ABSOLUTELY fund education.

Is it their responsibility? Well no.

Is it in their best interests? HELL YES.

Before you make such a bold statement saying it is in their and your best interest should you not first offer examples??
Can you pinpoint the return on this forced investment?

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
This country is going nowhere unless we all start putting great value into education. A mass of idiots is easier controlled than a mass of well educated people.

Well said, and who is to blame, govt. and lobbyists
Great and now that we have figured that out let us empower them with control over departments that is high in red tape and money that goes nowhere.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Ron Paul is wolf in sheeps clothing. He is part of the elite's agenda to take away everything from you and me. He wants to strip us of everything yet he says he is doing it for our own good. He says he will let you opt out of social security, yet if you become disabled you are thrown into the streets because you have nothing to help you. He says he is trying to help you by giving you no choice about what you chose to do with your own life.
He is a liar and a fake. He pretended to be against the status quo when really he wants to build a "better" status quo for the elite. He wants the rich to have everything and you to have NOTHING! He is not an independent nor is he for the weak or the poor. He wants to end HUD! HUD! A department that is needed. Without HUD 46 million americans may be homeless. If goes after HUD,Medicare,Medciad,education what is next food stamps leaving people to starve? What else will he cut out the CDC, the Fda, fema. Where will he be when the next hurricane Katrina hits? Where will relief aid come from? We may be forced to dissolve the USA and rebuild if this happens. When i listen to him it sounds like a perfect diaster and the perfect peices of the puzzle that will crash the USA once and for all.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


I highly agree with Dr. Paul on ending Federal college tuition programs. College costs have skyrocketed due to these programs, and nobody is addressing why this is, or have the universities lower their tuition costs.

reply to post by neo96


I am not waiting for anyone to hand me anything! You really are judgemental! I worked for 15 years since the age of 15 very hard then my disablity almost killed me. I had to slow down. I work 2 freelance jobs and go to college. How can anyone be so insensitive. Just because you had to work TOO hard does not mean EVERYONE has to! That's what I never understand about people is they automatically hurl their resentment at those less forunate. I am not anyone's scapegoat. I am just trying to make it like you. If I worked as hard as you I would be dead within a month. I am sick of explaining my disablity so I won't. I just hope that you understand you could become disabled and someday you will be grow old. I hope there is some safety net to help you when you need it!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Listen, the government should ABSOLUTELY fund education.

Is it their responsibility? Well no.

Is it in their best interests? HELL YES.

Before you make such a bold statement saying it is in their and your best interest should you not first offer examples??
Can you pinpoint the return on this forced investment?

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
This country is going nowhere unless we all start putting great value into education. A mass of idiots is easier controlled than a mass of well educated people.

Well said, and who is to blame, govt. and lobbyists
Great and now that we have figured that out let us empower them with control over departments that is high in red tape and money that goes nowhere.

I don't feel I need to back such an obviously true statement up with fact - but because common sense isn't something we were all blessed with, I'll give you all the references from the Wikipedia entry for the same topic.

It has been argued that high rates of education are essential for countries to be able to achieve high levels of economic growth.[32] Empirical analyses tend to support the theoretical prediction that poor countries should grow faster than rich countries because they can adopt cutting edge technologies already tried and tested by rich countries. However, technology transfer requires knowledgeable managers and engineers who are able to operate new machines or production practices borrowed from the leader in order to close the gap through imitation. Therefore, a country's ability to learn from the leader is a function of its stock of "human capital". Recent study of the determinants of aggregate economic growth have stressed the importance of fundamental economic institutions[33] and the role of cognitive skills.[34] At the individual level, there is a large literature, generally related back to the work of Jacob Mincer,[35] on how earnings are related to the schooling and other human capital of the individual. This work has motivated a large number of studies, but is also controversial. The chief controversies revolve around how to interpret the impact of schooling.[36][37] Economists Samuel Bowles and Herbert Gintis famously argued in 1976 that there was a fundamental conflict in American schooling between the egalitarian goal of democratic participation and the inequalities implied by the continued profitability of capitalist production on the other.[38]

Wikipedia: Economics and Education


If you don't think education is good for civilization please point out why. I believe that the more educated we all our the better the economy will be, the better we will be at making informed decisions and directing governments. Hoaxes will be harder to pull off. For example, if the entire US population had a basic understanding of physics and astronomy do you think Elenin would have been such a big deal?

reply to post by ThaLoccster

I totally agree with Ron Paul on this one.

And calm down all those of you who can't see the wood for the trees!

Think about what he said he's going to get rid of...LOANS.

What would you rather have...a student LOAN that gets you heavily into debt (and of course, accustomed to BEING in debt!) before you've even got your career started or an education system that works as it should and is subsidised and paid for by cutting useless and costly government departments?

Years of debt for a substandard education Vs No debt, and a revamped and rejuvenated education system that educates?

I know what i would choose.

Besides, he wouldn't HAVE to cut anything, once all your military bases around the world are closed down and troops brought home, where they should be, many, many trillions would be saved there alone...won't please the Military Industrial Complex corporations very much though, but the rest of Americans would benefit and the world would probably start respecting Americans again (and rightly so IMO).

reply to post by dreamseeker


Yeah I am because it is that ideology that people think they are owed something instead of taking care of their own business that has led this country off a cliff and to over a 100 trillion debt IOU's that can never be paid back and what's the solution? Add more.

The truth hurts and dude wishing someone to become disabled? That was wrong on so many levels.

reply to post by spikey


He's not going to get rid of the loans, he's going to make them worse for everyone. No wonder the bankers have the country by the balls. You're all willing to let them!

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Could you explain your comment please, i'm afraid i don't understand what you mean.

reply to post by neo96


I never wished for you to become disabled dude.(LOL). I was just pointing something out. I was middle class at one point but I would rather be alive than work so hard. I am greatful for that disablity money because it saved my life. I am healtheir now because I have health insurcance. I am alive now because I am able to get medicines and not be out working in the middle of flu season. I have had some form for pnuemonia or bronchistis every year for 20 years straight until I was able to work more from home. I had been to the hospital so much at one point in my life,(2 times a year); that the DRs knew me by name.
If you could only walk a mile in my shoes you would understand.
By the way I am not a dude but a dudette since I am a female lol.

reply to post by spikey


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Removing the government from the picture doesn't make anything better. It makes it worse. If you can explain to me what prohibits the bankers from cashing in on what would be a very lucrative market, please do.

I disagree with those that say a student loan automatically equals debt. How many people have credit cards but no debt?

While many people with both may end up in debt, that doesn't imply they automatically will.

I have a plan outlined to begin repaying my loans well before they are even due. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I should be able to pay off my loans and ensure I do not fall into a personal debt crisis situation.

If we want to get semantic, and say because you owe money you are in debt then point taken. As I look at "being in debt." In means to have money owed you are unable to pay back, not to simply owe money to someone.

I don't see any reason why my degree path would not allow me opportunities in it's related field. There are many jobs in the field, and even if I have to move, with the degree, certifications, and experience I have, finding employment should not be too large of a concern.

I have seen barely any discussion on the various other factors that also feed into large tuition costs, or reasons why students might default on their loans. Most of the answers or replies I am seeing are akin to saying hamburgers make you fat, let's get rid of McDonald's.

I'm sure the student loan system, like many other systems, have their faults. But, that doesn't imply the system is inherrently faulty or should be completely done away with. I know quite a few people who have taken student loans, graduated with a degree, gained employment, and either are paying off, or have paid off their loans with little to no problems.

Many of the same posters I see blaming the system, are on other threads saying it's not the systems fault, but a fault in personal accountability. The same logic can be applied here, and many people who find theirself in trouble in regards to student loans have just made poor choices, either in the field they chose to earn a degree in, in how they managed their loans, or in other areas.

If the statement that "guns don't kill people, people do" is true. Then it's just as truthful to say "student loans don't cause debt, bad choices do."