Will The Real Christians Please Stand UP.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

You are as usual full of meaningless semantic excesses, hoping that your empty droning-on will reach someone at the same sub-standard level you operate from.

For a sane or average intelligent person, your preachings are total nonsense.

How so? What topics are you refering to? Care to provide a quote or some context? What you are saying is pure name calling and bias against me as a Christian.

That's the idea, and it's very well-considered on my part.

reply to post by charles1952


You wrote:

["Please consider him to be speaking from frustration, and not personal animosity, in this case."]

There's a considerable amount of intellectual preparation involved, and my 'strategy' has been formed over a longer period. It's not a spur of the moment loosing my marbles rationally. Though I do take the basic 'drive' from a minor emotional tantrum.

As you can see from my (presently 'in between') rational postings, I'm not reduced to a raving lunatic frothing constantly around the mouth.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

How so? What topics are you refering to? Care to provide a quote or some context? What you are saying is pure name calling and bias against me as a Christian.

What happened to all your lecturing about pride?
Seems to me that if you were not so concerned about your pride, posts like that would not bother you.
If you cared about truth, you would be presenting a defense of that instead of defending yourself.
Name calling, as you call it, is just a description of your writing. Instead of taking offense at criticism of your output, maybe you should work on the quality of it.
Your hiding behind the name, Christian, I find irksome. No one is attacking you for being a Christian and that is some sort of personal resort to taking the figure of the martyr which isn't working.
If I'm allowed to mention a competing forum, I suggest you go over to the jrandi forum for two weeks and promote your wares and see what sort of reception you get. You might get an attitude adjustment and think this place is heaven.

Excellently put.

You, jmdewey, have a religious platform which is far from where I stand existentially. But your personal attitudes and your religion are 'housebroken', sympathetic, even to learn from.

But please do not take this post as an effort to implicate you in any part-taking/choosing sides in my present escapades. I'm basically a loner and I don't want to draw anyone into taking a pro-part for me.

Until I'm kicked out of the forum, I can with you, and similar individuals, continue a factual debate as it existed before my 'campaign' started.

reply to post by Noey777


You wrote:

["I read your post Bogomil and the first thing I see is a person who loves to hear himself speak"]

What post are you referring to? And anyway, I'm completely uninterested in your questionable role as a 'character-analyser'. I have regularly been exposed to christian on-line pop-psychology as an expression of character-defamation (when the christian circular-argumentation runs dry and no real arguments are left).

Quote: ["That being said what exactly would you expect of a Christian in answering your question"]

Still not knowing what you refer to, but guessing it to be one of my efforts of being intentionally insulting: Nothing can be answered. My insults are not rational, but only giving christian fanatics a taste of their own medicine.

Quote: ["the ambiguity of it is nonsensical format leaves one scratching their head."]

For the under-educated, the intellectually substandards and for the blind fanatics (all with big propaganda mouths), my standard posts probably would leave them scratching their heads. Such people would do better by not exceeding their competence by spewing out mindless propaganda-clichées they can't see the consequences of from the start.

Quote: ["The fact you specifically make mention to the OT. And Pauls epistles while abasing all christians leads me to believe that is what you are all about."]

MY personal competence lies mainly in a 45 year interest in existential questions, which I believe I can handle at a reasonable layperson level (I have a support in some knowledge of several associated subjects relevant to that), and I'm not at the moronic level, where I make blind, generalized accusations left and right.

Who are "all christians"? Most of the christians I've met or had contact with are perfectly agreeable and decent people, who can live in peace with their neighbours without sociopathic dreams of world-monopoly or 'christian soldier' wet dreams of violence.

Quote: ["So what exact knowledge or search of knowledge are you asking for with regards to the OT and Pauls epistles ?"]

The same as I would expect from a car-mechanic meeting an unusual problem, where the manual isn't of any help. I'm neither an intellectual snob, nor relying much on 'authority'; .... whereas COMPETENCE is a must. One of the most fantastic persons it's ever been my pleasure to be a friend of, was a fundamentalist pentacostal, who had 5 years of public schooling (and nothing more). He was a small 'saint' in his christian, non-invasive ways, a genius for anything practical and as trustworthy as anyone you'll ever meet.

Not the loudmouthed, incompetent sociopaths, which make up the major part of our resident preaching ranters on this forum.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

I am sure you have many good things to say. Stick to the subject and reveal the light inside. All of us have truths to share if God is working in our lives.

This sort of egotistical introspection is not something I engage in. I just work at what I do, in faith, and let it go at that.
What you do is creepy beyond description, to me.

reply to post by bogomil

I'm basically a loner and I don't want to draw anyone into taking a pro-part for me.

I just am sick of big-time cry-babies and wooses (I mean the people who get bent out of shape by you merely pointing out their lack of logic).
I stick with my earlier suggestion, that anyone who wants to complain (I don't mean you, bogomil) about their treatment here, go on the jrandi religion forum and post for 14 days. I will watch and see what happens to you, it will be quite entertaining and good for laughs for months to come (meaning the denizens of that site will ridicule your posts long after you have retreated, tail between legs).

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by bogomil

 

I'm basically a loner and I don't want to draw anyone into taking a pro-part for me.

I just am sick of big-time cry-babies and wooses (I mean the people who get bent out of shape by you merely pointing out their lack of logic).
I stick with my earlier suggestion, that anyone who wants to complain (I don't mean you, bogomil) about their treatment here, go on the jrandi religion forum and post for 14 days. I will watch and see what happens to you, it will be quite entertaining and good for laughs for months to come (meaning the denizens of that site will ridicule your posts long after you have retreated, tail between legs).

edit on 26-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

I'll take a look at that site, when my steam settles somehow. It sounds interesting. IF I ever get kicked out of here (which seems to be considerably more complicated, than I expected), I'll want a new site to join.

reply to post by bogomil
They always need fresh meat, so you may find a shortage there of the sort you seem to enjoy sparring with.
There is a lot of the debunker mentality there which I do not find better, just a sort of mirror image to what you find abhorrent here.

No wonder we Christians have no credibility.
Look at this thread.
A simple question was asked, and what has the thread descended into? Bickering, arguing over personal viewpoints and minor theological viewpoints, hurling around insults, claiming others are being influenced by demons...

This is an insult to everything Christ stood for, and everything the Bible teaches... and while you all squabble among yourselves, a dying world screams out for a saviour that you claim to already know - but you're too busy with your petty arguments to speak the truth of Christ crucified, much less reflect that truth with your own lives and speech.

It makes me sick.

Originally posted by Awen24
No wonder we Christians have no credibility.
Look at this thread.
A simple question was asked, and what has the thread descended into? Bickering, arguing over personal viewpoints and minor theological viewpoints, hurling around insults, claiming others are being influenced by demons...

This is an insult to everything Christ stood for, and everything the Bible teaches... and while you all squabble among yourselves, a dying world screams out for a saviour that you claim to already know - but you're too busy with your petty arguments to speak the truth of Christ crucified, much less reflect that truth with your own lives and speech.

It makes me sick.

And where is the difference from what you don't like, and what you present yourself.

You just have THE 'right' answer, ofcourse superior to all the 'false' christians and 'false' other religions. Precisely what the world need, still another self-proclaimed 'I know it all' elitist. Have you even considered the option of mankind not needing gurus, but the possibility if people choosing for themselves and learning to accept such choices without interfering with others' choices?.

reply to post by Awen24


It should not really be that surprising there are over 20,000 sects and denominations claiming to be Christians yet they disagree with each other.
A catholic will claim to be Christian and So will an English protestant yet in Ireland they will live in separate areas and not more then a decade ago they would bomb each other.
I know there is a lot more to it then relgion there is also the politics of the situation in Ireland and a History of English dominance but that is one example.
If you head south in the states many Baptists will denounce or Vilify Catholics as not being Christian.
If someone claims to be a Mormon many sects will denounce them as not being a Christian.
Even something like free will is debated. A Calvinist believes there is no free will and God already determines from the beginning if someone is damned or saved.
Lutheran
Evangelical
Born Again
Pentacostal
Methodist
Catholics
Greek Orthodox
Episcopalians
Anglicans

All claim to be Christian yet they disagree on doctrine.

On the internet the differences between Christian become even more apparent.
When one person who calls themselves Christian Disagrees with another person who calls themselves a Christian and they attempt to denounce each other by saying their version of Christianity is correct and the others version is false.
It seems that the Idea of "REAL CHRISTIANS" is nothing more then attempt to really say "MY VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY" and if you disagree with "My version of Christianity" then you are a heretic or false Christian.

On a lighter note I'm actually glad that this is not the dark ages and things like this can be discussed freely on the internet where the worst that can happen is a forum flame war instead of being tied to a stake and being burned by real flames for not being a "Real Christian."

reply to post by Awen24

I have written a lot on this thread (probably more than I should have), and unlike bogomil, I call myself a Christian. You can't be surprised that I assume that you are speaking, in part to me. But whether you are or aren't, I need to be held accountable for my words and deeds. I think we all do.

Allow me to ask you, therefore, for some guidance. Where have we gone wrong? How should we fix it? I have to remind myself that perhaps some people who claim to be Christians on this thread may not be. In an open and anonymous forum we will get some strange comments. Some will ignore your plea, what can be done about that?

Please stick around and make this thread better.

reply to post by Awen24

A simple question was asked, and what has the thread descended into? Bickering, arguing over personal viewpoints and minor theological viewpoints, hurling around insults, claiming others are being influenced by demons...

The original poster pretty much admitted that he was trying to provoke antagonism so you should have seen that as a sign not to join the thread.
As for demons, I think you need to turn in your Christian membership card for calling Jesus a liar and that he never cast out demons because you don't think there are any.

It's really sad, that a debate with invasive christians often ends at a point of repetitively hammering home the same clichées again and again. It is as if these christians believe that the noisiest and quantitavely most extensive contributors 'win' somehow.

Directing the following comments to such christians, I will relate to a quote from Charles' recent post:

["I have written a lot on this thread (probably more than I should have), and unlike bogomil, I call myself a Christian."]

This isn't an issue for me AT ALL. Charles could be a football enthusiast, a buddhist, a stampcollecter, an expert on John Wayne movies, a grower of prize-winning roses or an art-collecter. Why should I care about that, even less interfere with it?

Charles doesn't try to interfere with my life, and I benefit from his ability to carry a civil and rather academically neutral debate with me about the direction in life he has chosen.

If ANYONE could make me attentive to some positive aspects of christianity, it would be someone like Charles (there are several such individuals on this forum), not a loudmouthed ranter of elitism.

But as I said, I have now resorted to repeating myself to those who love repetitiveness. This is probably my number 500 version of the basically same theme.

I also went to 12 years of Catholic school and although I don't go to mass anymore or practice Catholicism as a whole, I'm here to say I AM A CHRISTIAN. I thank Jesus for the ways He has blessed me in the past and continues to do so each day. I am in no way a "bible-thumper", and quite frankly I don't get half what the bible says anyway. But there is something deep in me that has a personal relationship with the man they call Jesus of Nazareth. I can't explain what it is but I feel it and I just believe in Him. Too many people feel it has to be black or white regarding religious beliefs. I'm not one of them. I cuss, I drink, and can sometimes be a female dog, but that doesn't stop me from knowing I have Him on my side. And no matter what anyone tries to say to me to get me to not believe in Jesus, I won't change my stance.

Originally posted by ApocalipzNow
I also went to 12 years of Catholic school and although I don't go to mass anymore or practice Catholicism as a whole, I'm here to say I AM A CHRISTIAN. I thank Jesus for the ways He has blessed me in the past and continues to do so each day. I am in no way a "bible-thumper", and quite frankly I don't get half what the bible says anyway. But there is something deep in me that has a personal relationship with the man they call Jesus of Nazareth. I can't explain what it is but I feel it and I just believe in Him. Too many people feel it has to be black or white regarding religious beliefs. I'm not one of them. I cuss, I drink, and can sometimes be a female dog, but that doesn't stop me from knowing I have Him on my side. And no matter what anyone tries to say to me to get me to not believe in Jesus, I won't change my stance.

I have decided to become rational and polite on-and-off, depending on the degree of mainiacal and elitist christian ideological fascism dished out on the forum.

YOUR post here is commendable as an expression of how a person can be both religious AND rational at the same time. Actually I'm convinced, that most religionists are like that, and once the sociopathic preachers (from all ideologies) aren't considered more than noisy wanna-bes, mankind has a chance to straighten out many of the problems created by the insanely power-hungry.

I feel the original post was really good and of course different of us might add one and this one would be mine at the present thought.

Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Would not the real one have those attributes also?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by freedish

 

I believe He died for my sins.

You do believe that literally, right?
As in, Jesus says to your sins, 'Hello, I am here to save you'.
Since our sins are saved, then so are we, just by logic, right?

A true follower of Christ believes in Jesus and his death as a final payment for our sins and has received the Holy Spirit. There is nothing we can 'do' to obtain salvation, but only through Jesus's sacrifice.

You don't see these two statements as being contradictory?
statement 1) A true follower of Christ believes in Jesus and his death as a final payment for our sins and has received the Holy Spirit.
statement 2) There is nothing we can 'do' to obtain salvation, but only through Jesus's sacrifice.

. . .his death as a final payment for our sins. . .

Since the OP was all about Bible verses, do you have one for that?

edit on 23-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Hey sry it took so long to reply as i've been busy lately

i'm not sure what point you are trying to make? I don't see anything contradictory.
Are you arguing against my theology??? I wasn't planning on debating theology here... I'm not even sure how you can argue with what I'm saying since all I am doing is standing up like the OP asked. (I'm just honestly confused???)



And here is the bible verse you asked for:


1 John 2:2 NKJV
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

reply to post by freedish

And here is the bible verse you asked for:
1 John 2:2 NKJV
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

This word is found exactly two times in the NT, both in 1 John.
It is found a bunch of times in the LXX.
Psalms 130:4 NIV
But with you there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared.

The identical Greek word from 1 John is in this verse in Psalms in the Septuagint, which could have been the sort of thing the writer of the John letters had in mind, seeing how this was someone who wrote in Greek, it kind of makes sense that this person also read the OT in Greek too.

My point is that the NT does not explicitly say that Jesus shed his blood to make payment for sins, or to satisfy an angry God. Those are all things made up by Medieval theologians, you know, along with things like purgatory..

reply to post by jmdewey60

Sry again for taking so long to respond-
I don't want to argue.
If you don't believe Jesus's death was the final payment then that's your choice.
All I know is that I need a saviour, His name is Jesus, amen.