I propose that the Federal Government give everyone $20K per month

Originally posted by dbarnhart
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

>>That's only slightly above minimum wage, you can't live off that

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

>>LOL. How do you expect the feds to pay for this?

reply to post by ldyserenity


>>$15,080 a year is min wage $20,000

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by dbarnhart
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

>>That's only slightly above minimum wage, you can't live off that

I don't know the exact intention of the OP but some things I noticed:

• $20K per month is $240K per year. This is just below the current president's definition of rich ($250K/year--as in, "no increase in taxes for those making less than $250K/year. It should also be noted that $200K has been used as well)
  
  
• The idea expressed is a simple knee-jerk quick fix to create a level playing field. The reality is that some will continue to work and thus gain more personal wealth. In fact, those that choose not to work and become nothing but consumers will spend money more freely until inflation reflects in prices. A loaf of bread would quickly become $500-$1000 because people would both charge and pay that price. Funny thing about necessities when you only consume and do not produce
  
  
• We currently do have somewhat of a level playing field now. Most people are not born into wealth. The few that are, most of it is old money in which the family took risks that paid off some time in the past. Or took advantage of a lack of laws such as building infrastructure monopolies before anti-trust laws were in effect or enforced. A recent example would be Bill Gates with Microsoft.
  
  
• $20/month is $6.48 million over 27 years. Roughly equal to the cash option of a $15 million lottery jackpot. In both cases you would not have to work, however with the lottery winning a person is less likely to continue working. And actually not be as likely to do any investing in either established companies nor start up companies. But at the same time, they are more likely to give and give more to charities. There is a psychological reason for that.
  
  

I would continue to work if I was handed $20K a month. But I would most likely go into business for myself versus being employed somewhere for someone else.

Couldn't quit your job if bread was $20 a loaf.

The price of everything would jump immediately.

Originally posted by dbarnhart
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

>>$15,080 a year is min wage $20,000

reply to post by Ahabstar


>>I don't know the exact intention of the OP but some things I noticed:

I thought wealth was a measurement of distance. If we all are at the same rate then we are all at the same place and no one is wealthy. The rich are still just as rich and the poor are still just as poor. The only thing that has changed is the fact you will need a wheel barrow to get you milk and bread.

I have a better idea, let's go the other way. What if no one got paid at all... No money as currency, no pay check, no measurement of how far ahead one is from the other. Is this even possible? I saw someone bring up the Venus Project; would that be the ideal situation? Would it be barter and trade? Or are we on the right track with this whole capitalist, free market thing? Something else altogether?

reply to post by Cassey222


>>I have a better idea, let's go the other way. What if no one got paid at all

reply to post by dbarnhart


Why?!?

Why would anyone post such a silly concept?

Because of corporate brainwashing. This is what we have become, selfish small minded greedy people without the ability to think for themselves. Using ridiculous talking points to help ensure that shackles stay tight and no one questions this system that uses people as resources instead of helping our fellow humans become better and enjoy the short time we are given.

Self enslavement.

Not many people want a free ride. We are not on this earth for a free ride, most people want to do something worthwhile.

The system is not set up for that.

The monetary system has most of us enslaved doing something that is a compromise. A resource based system that gives EVERYONE the opportunity to do something that they feel is worth burning up our precious short time here on earth.

Do you not feel the energy shift we have been experiencing? How it has intensified since April?

If not you may be like the neanderthal, ready for extinction because you refuse to go with or even feel the great change that mankind is going thru and is beginning to embrace. It is not going to stop, get the eulogy ready for the old world way, for the world is moving on.

Really if you need $240,000 to survive...then you're doing something severly wrong.
I really think that is exhorbitant.

Everything in this world is a TRAP, and the programming is intense. The capitialist system of horrendous inequalities, stress, abuse of children and hardships, for the few was given its opposite, they demonized lending a helping hand by tying it into models of fascism like China.

Mind you Norway is close, with a form of proportional democracy that is different than Australias, Norways one creates more parties, grass roots parties, more women and more cooperation, no winner takes all. And more voting by citizens, referendums. They have a system that with housing, food and utilities controlled, even after taxes, they have more money in their pockets on average than any other country, and have the highest standard of living year after year, with a really good education. In the current world, its the best.

But have equality demonized, not that communistic or fascist countries are run equally, they're not, they're run very conservative as my friend who escaped one told me. She really didn't like our conservative party's platform in Canada. There is far more difference between Norway and Hungary before the curtain fell, than conservative democracy and Hungary was. She said her only life change was she had a vcr now. Whoopee! Still a slave, and still underpaid.

Get the programming out and put one thing your head.

You cannot support a system that enforces slavery. For any reason. All have equal rights to resources and land. Now with those two in mind, create something beautiful together.

Everyone counts, and you can't have the small living off the majority's poverty, or in our countries, anyone's poverty. No, working for peanuts, not even enought to cover your needs let alone wishes, for Macdonalds, which is a criminal company exploiting and enslaving third world, while selling food that is poison, and gmo at that, so working for them is criminal. That is true of nearly all corporations. You can't ethically work for them. However, their top posititions can own many houses, and they live off your slavery.

No one should ever be so easily brainwashed as to forsake their neighbor, try to force their neighbor, or pat themselves on the back for their health, and willingness to be slaves.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46556f619b57.jpg[/atsimg]


I Set Myself Free


Moya Brennan - Hear my prayer

People are always suspicious of the Venus Project and rightfully so, not that the technology doesnt exist. But it should not look quite so high tech, I like beauty, organic looks, earthship homes, and gardens, however, some can look high tech, no doubt. Here is the only drawback to the Venus Project. It was created with controllers, probably the think tank of China/Rotchild's/Rockefellers.

Take it to the grass roots level because we need citizens governing. And yet, a world wide counsel of citizens, rotating, ie fast turnovers, that we may elect and fire quickly, not to change freedoms, erect many many laws, but uphold universeal health care of the highest standards universally and free, dental, counseling and deal with emergencies, diplomacy, etc. Most of life takes place regionally. Equality and high standards for all, but not these never ending lists of rules and controls, and fines/imprisonments.

So while I'm going to list the venus project, we have to bear in mind, it doesnt have to look so inorganic, and it doesnt have to be under someone's thumb. I don't like people standing under someone.

But education is needed before people can even begin to run things in councils, high levels of understanding.

A complete respect for everyones' equality without forcing, and at the same time, freedom so food laws, drug laws, and many things would not even be on the plate. Whether you hang your clothes up on your clothesline. Its ludicrous the control laws. A different free and equal system. People real education, drop their programs. Even our conservative misnamed liberals in BC did a study and found it costs hundreds of thousand of dollars, past buying a house for them, giving them 1500 a month to live on or more and providing health and services, to house 1 homeless person in our province. Did it change anything, hell no!

Understand, they use TAX DOLLARS, your dollars, to give you the least for the money, and hand the most over to the corporations, but you pay for this system of usary, THATS THEIR REAL JOB. Its not about saving money and providing goodness to people, no stress, just contributing as you can, and enjoying life. Its about fleecing you and yet, giving you nothing in return or very little and handing you over to their Corporate Friends, at your expense. Thats the governments. Period.


The Venus Project "Welcome to the future" Part 1


The Venus project. Self Erecting Structures 1/2


Unbelievable Floating Architectural Structures

I wouldn't want to live on the ocean, but imagine them being self sustaining energy systems with solar and wind/wave/tide even, growing food, or creating replacements for our fossil fuels, the sky the limit.

When you take SCARSITY AWAY AND INTRODUCE ABUNDANCE. Money is scarsity. Having people past the stage of raising young children, because that is the most imporant job, and men should be home for much of it too, or looking after your handicapped, or ill, equally, not one thing less in their lives, is important, but otherwise sharing hours, some longer, some less, for kazillions of projects and ideas, and taught to do so in school from a very age, and taken to the highest IQ's with good nutrition, not gmo, health stress free environments of beauty, equlity, peace, and lots of kindness.

No forcing and competetion Compassion and cooperation.

With high clean tech we wouldn't be the hard laborers, but instead, be the designers, artists, counselors, teachers, and technicians, inventors. We'd be living our dreams. And could retrain at any time.

But there are other things, that so called emerging really means, LEAKING. This is higher level in black operations.


Touchable Holography

Solid state holography. Why not. The whole universe already is!!! We're in a holgogram. Our bodies are holograms.

But it might be a while before we can duplicate the touch and feel and comfort of oraganic. Well, we need to find ways to use orgnanic, cottons, hemps, and things to replace overusing forests and overusing minerals and resources.

Originally posted by SeleneLux
reply to post by dbarnhart

 

Why?!?

Why would anyone post such a silly concept?

I absolutely agree that it is a silly concept. However:

1. Greece is living in that silly concept right now.

2. A Congresswoman is calling for free diapers.

3. Another Congressman is calling for 'hiring' every unemployed person at $40K/year.

I agree the concept is silly but far too many think it's entirely reasonable.

Imagine little R2D2's cleaning house and making meals, if we can't use more advanced technologies yet. And looking after your gardens and green houses.

Imagine being free to enjoy your children and hobbies, to create, invent, learn always, and travel free and safely world wide.

Imagine your children being able to go to school in different nations, have dinner in Italy, attend a concert in Los Angelos, and enjoy a retreat in Australia for the weekend.

We're almost at that level. Why are we not living to this already?

Why has not the progression been for everyone, that has taken place?

Why scar the world, and abuse nature. It should be a garden managed. With many living in farms/ecofarms, lakes should all be communal, beaches and retreat centers for all people, not owned by corporate motels and industries. And wonderful cities full of culture and high learning.

Why are we allowing these THUGS and MURDERs this kind of ability. To turn heaven into hell.

Wake up. There is no need.

And we shouldn't wait to form local counsels. In betwen elections we should be organizing and opting out, living like this, whole neighborhoods operating as an eco farm in city centers. And our own sharing, co-op banks and even jobs that are more like trade. So that when they crash this economy, with an army of documents dug up by the private investigators we should have hired all along, we'd simply arrest them. I do believe in forgiveness, but it really depends on how they join us as equals, and live to make up for this, ie. maybe they need a lot of counseling and should be counseling teaching children how they made some big mistakes. Howver for really dangerous types who only need one phone call or one code on a computer to unleash hell on earth with their black ops, confinement is probably needed.

We could be preparing all along. We need to grow a different dream now.

Here are questions that need to be addressed locally, not with control agents form China, or Russia, but with citizens: how do you provide an equal boutniful wonderful creative existence for all but don't blame or force?

How do you still maintain freedoms, personal autonomy and choices within such a system?

Its not by incorporating our current models of left or right, or economy models, but it may borrow a few principals from some or all of them, the few that work for example if any can be found.

Its called flexing your problem solving muscles and working together to ensure, there are no overlords.

I wouldn't even want paradise with overlords.

Quartz is programmable. And it can be grown instead of harvested. It makes permanent hard drives and information storage and you can run currents through it, a charge!

What does that mean? Well, can you imagine creating a circuit for advanced computers, both the hardware design VIRTUALIZED inside crystals, and the software, operating systems, plus the storage. So a couple of Quartz, hooked up to power sources, and screens and you'd have a virtualized computer, a super computer, and wouldn't need to enslave Africans to create tehcnology. They'd be equal living in wonderful advanced systems too with 0 population growth.

Imagine a world like that. I see it every day and pray for it, envision it. Ask for intervention so it can come to pass Every day.

This is probably the worst satire I've ever seen.

You realize current "entitlements" aren't enough to live off of without a job right? "Entitlements" are usually just enough so a person can feed and house their family and kids. People receiving food stamps and other entitlements don't even receive $20,000 a year, let alone a month. No one on welfare is living the "good life," and the majority have a job.

reply to post by dbarnhart


What about a situation where 99% puts in more than they take, and 1% take WAAAAAAAY more than they put in? Imagine how horrible that would be.

Oh wait, that's now.

While i do agree that there are people who are considered "poor", and have done nothing to to even attempt to earn more, they are a very very very small minority.

The overwhelming majority works their butt off day in and day out, just to get their hard earned money fast tracked straight to the top. Between being denied wage increases to even cover cost of living increases, constantly rising health care costs, and fuel/energy costs, all on top of income tax, state tax, sales tax, property tax, rampant inflation, criminal bank fees, and being blatantly robbed of anything you try to invest, there is no way american citizens can survive in this continues.

You may think that all the public outcry is about getting something for free, but you are wrong. All they/we want is to be able to earn a living wage, to be able to keep a fair portion of this wage, and not build up unrealistic amounts of debt as a country/world economy that will be passed on to our children.

Peace,
DC