Vortex in space

I have been searching for awhile now, to no availe. My question is simple yet complex.

I wondered if anyone has knowledge on creating a vortex in space. Obviously through artificail means, and controlled I.E.>not a black hole

Also a black hole would suggest that is should be possible to create such an event.

My best guess would be that it could be created using a magnetic field or more like multiple synchronis magnetic fields.

Anyways, heres hoping someone is up late and knowledgable in the matter.

Did they fit a FART exhaust to the ISS, maybe if they do and someone uses it that may do the trick.

No.....seriously, what kind of Vortex and for what purpose may I ask?

PS: Im not really a newbie.

Well as for the purpose I can't really say just yet.

I am still working out the physics. I should patent the idea.

Anyways, I am almost certain it should be possible, although there is no data of any experiments to create such a thing, and I can't really do it myself. I have to try and figure it out mathematically.

I am just hoping someone has an idea of the viability of this.

Obviously it has not been done yet.

I know you could do it with a huge mass. I am thinking more along the lines of using a rotating opposing magnetic field to reduce the mass gravity effect therby create a shollow point in space-time field.

reply to post by KingAtlas


sounds like you are talking about point to point travel to me...

i highly doubt it would be a possible thing to do w/ our level of tech.

good luck w the math though

No not point to point travel, I don't want to create a rosen bridge. Haha.

I am thinking a more practical application.
*(although I suppose an Einstein-Rosen bridge would have many practicle applications)

I am trying to create a shallow contained vortex.

reply to post by KingAtlas


Question: a vortex of what?

When I flush my toilet, it creates a vortex of water.
A tornado or hurricane is a vortex of air currents.

Thus, in a micro to zero gravity vacuum, exactly what are you wanting to go all swirly? Since 'space' is essentially vacuum and zero gravity, I'm guessing you have something you'll be introducing into the vacuum and a way to make it go all vortex swirly in a controlled fashion where it doesn't just shoot off in a straight line and continue on forever as things are want to do in the vacuum of zero gravity space, at least until they hit a gravity well, or some type of mass that will interfere with further progression of the whole straight line foreverishness.

Thank you in advance if you have an answer. I've been trying to puzzle out how I could make a swirly vortex in zero gravity vacuum with just using water as an experimental medium; something very simple, visible and easy to work with that has predictable properties, but, unless I introduce an artificial tube, or a toilet bowl into the equation, the water just sprays everywhere creating an ice fog, and it's really quite annoying.

reply to post by nineix


space time itself.

I mean your obviouse ignorance aside, I understand you might not understand but it should be theoretically possibly (at least I am along that train of thought).

Gravitational rotation of the earth is a result of a space time dimple in which we are currently in. To create such a large dimple would require enormous mass. What I am thinking is more along the lines of an artificial dimple creation process on a much smaller scale.

reply to post by nineix

but, unless I introduce an artificial tube, or a toilet bowl into the equation, the water just sprays everywhere creating an ice fog, and it's really quite annoying.

What about using a rubber balloon if the surface area of the water is variable or a custom built container for a fixed water surface?

reply to post by KingAtlas


Have you checked out the Anderson Institute? There has been some work going on along these lines. There website is currently down so here is another link to some of their stuff www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by KingAtlas


You may want to look at this patent: Method for Gravity distortion and Time Displacement

The math checks out. Work it out and see if you get the same.
If so, it's bad news for you since someone else already worked it out, but, that's good news for everyone else, right?
Purchase leasing rights to the patent and put this thing into production.

reply to post by KingAtlas


The only force known to be capable of warping spacetime is gravity.
I think you'd find, though, if you got a strong enough rotating electromagnetic field, it would warp space in the same way... but only because such an electromagnetic field would have its own gravitational potential, so it would still be an affect of gravity. And, since it's an affect of gravity, it would still have to be ridiculously huge in order to create any sizable vortex whatsoever - which is worse than a pure gravity field, because now you'd have an enormous gravitational potential AND an enormous electromagnetic field to deal with, as well as the mass and material needed to create the EM field.

nine i starred you for that, that is an interesting patent.... wow.
thank you. it's not exactly what I was thinking but, insane. i was actually just readin hawkings and he was talking about nut charge and anti-desitter space funny co incidence.

Also as for the only force that can warp/displace the spacetime field is gravity, I kind of disagree.

Gravity is an effect of the warping of the space time field. I do not believe it is gravity itself that is doing it.
It is debatable, but I will list some sources just so you have an idea where I am coming from,

source

source

*Although the geodedic affect does contradic my argument, I still wouldn't feel comfortable without including GR

General relativity generalises special relativity and Newton's law of universal gravitation, providing a unified description of gravity as a geometric property of space and time, or spacetime. In particular, the curvature of spacetime is directly related to the four-momentum (mass-energy and linear momentum) of whatever matter and radiation are present.

wiki

reply to post by KingAtlas


Semantics.
Curvature of the spacetime manifold is an affect of the stress-energy tensor field (which is why electromagnetism, being energy, curves spacetime). This curvature causes regions of mass/energy to "gravitate" toward each other - an affect we call gravity.

reply to post by CLPrime


Okay I now I am going to have some fun. I understand where you are coming from. Obviously you have an understanding of the math, so I will write it out and post it here, debating with word can't really express the idea.

Now that that is out of the way.....

I don't want this to become a debate on GR or C=Mf

Look I am just wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to create a vortex.
I don't think this is the right place, I am going to go to a physics site think that will be better to ask this question.

reply to post by KingAtlas


Okay...now, how do you want to apply this to creating a spacetime vortex without the aide of gravity?

I would also like to make a space time vortex,
sadly, however my delusions of grandure prevent it.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I wondered if anyone has knowledge on creating a vortex in space. Obviously through artificail means, and controlled I.E.>not a black hole

There is already a space-time vortex around the Earth and there's no black hole involved:

NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment

There is a space-time vortex around Earth

Similarly, spinning a basketball on your fingertip also creates a space-time vortex, though not a very big one, since the basketball is a lot smaller than the Earth, but it's the same principle.



That doesn't look too hard. If you want to do it in space, just send the basketball up to the international space station, I'm sure someone up there will spin it for you! It should be a little easier to spin there, because they won't even have to worry about balancing it on their fingertip!

So now that I've explained how to create a vortex through controlled artificial means without using a black hole, do I get a cookie?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Ironically, the OP seems to be wanting a vortex effect sans gravity - and, therefore, the presence of significant mass. Yet, what you describe is a direct result of the presence of a rotating mass. This vortex - called frame-dragging - is mathematically described by the Kerr metric. Now, the irony: the Kerr metric is the generalization for rotating bodies of the equation the OP posted above.

Okay, I might be the only one to get the irony of that, but still... I lol'ed, so-to-speak.

reply to post by CLPrime

So in other words my solution is consistent with his equation?

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I am thinking more along the lines of using a rotating opposing magnetic field to reduce the mass gravity effect therby create a shollow point in space-time field.

I never heard of anything like that proven in experiments. I've heard a bunch of claims along those lines, but I file those with the claims about elvis getting married to lady bigfoot until I see some evidence.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Your solution is the Kerr metric for a rotating spherically-symmetric mass, while the equation he posted is the Schwarzschild metric for a non-rotating spherically-symmetric mass. Yet, you'll notice, both solutions involve mass - and, in order to produce a sizable spacetime vortex, they need a ridiculous amount of mass.

As for the addition of an electromagnetic field, I'm not aware of any way this would assist in creating a vortex other than in the way I already mentioned... which creates more problems than it solves.