Muslim High School Girl Barred from Marching in ROTC Parade because of Head Scarf

I think the super obese should be able to serve too. I mean, come on. There are motorized wheelchairs now, and the Army should accommodate their girth. Additionally, I think they need to lower the standards to 1 pushup, or none, it doesn't matter. Why have rules anyway? While they're at it, stop this 18+ crap. There are a lot of good 10-18 year old boys and girls that could be serving. Apparently standards don't matter in this country anymore. It's more about not wanting to offend some terrorist religion. I give up.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


I would normally agree with you on that point, except that the school is punting the blame..

“We as a school system are bound to the regulations of the Army. We cannot conduct the program unless we follow the regulations,” said Jason Golden, chief operating officer and general counsel for the school district.

(OP article)

CastleMadeof sand... Sikhism is the fifth largest organised religon on earth... i will provide no link as it is common fact!!


Secondly to another poster i appreaciate that they made the exception, i cannot however find reference to any other religon (which would be capable of joining the US army, eg. pacaifists etc. would be excluded from this)
that REQUIRE there followers to wear a particular garb when in public for you to be a practising member of that religon.

Isn't there a difference between BDU's (the uniform shown with the Turban) and Dress Uniforms? The parade would have been in dress uniform. Are there any pictures that show the Turban with a Dress Uniform rather than with BDUs?

Again can someone please explain to me why people seem to missunderstand the concept of required to wear somthing for religon??

i really dont think people understand the head scarf is not a required religous artifact in Islam, it is a sign of respect and no where in the koran does it say you must wear a head scarf,

however a turban is a required piece of religous clothing to be a practicing Sikh.

Originally posted by GonzoSinister
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

not 100% accurate...

From my understanding the head scarf in muslim religon is a sign of respect but not and actual 100% needed religous artifact, it was brough into the religon much later (like in thae last 150 years or somthing) to show a sing of respect at hiding there most important asset (which is seen to be hair)

however the turban is infact a proper religous item which has to be worn when in public if you are a practicing sikh all the time.


from my understanding anyway so its a little diffrent

You are correct-- or at least it matches what I had been taught.

I always wear a cross, and that is allowed under my shirt, but to wear it on the outside is not allowed-- because it is not required by my faith to wear one at all. It is the same with the scarf.

Another couple of military issues regarding religious practice come to mind:

1) A Satanist group applied to the military requesting to have their chaplain. It went through a lengthy processes and was ultimately denied on an interesting point. It was denied because the religion was deemed to have historical existence only so as to oppose another religion, rather than on its own merits.

2) At base chapels used for Christian worship, the military had an ingenious method of easily deciding how to divide up chapel use. There are two types of worship space on many bases: Those with altars and those without.

The story goes that after listening to each representative of each Christian denomination explain the worship and their unique theological positions and after reading long and carefully prepared reports, some bureaucrat realized that it was far simpler, and so the rule is now used:

If the denomination will Baptize an infant, they get a chapel with an altar.

What is amusing to me about that, is that it works; but there is no theological connection between the differences in the two practices. Utterly independent yet consistently predictive.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well ill be damned!

I stand corrected, I did not know about this..........makes me want to research more now

thank you for providing more information

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand

 

You missed the point. Its the fact they already made an exception for the seiks.

Secondly, it does have to do with their belief system.

At another poster - I think the turban looks cool to.

I understand that now. The Army made exceptions. The Army does not determine what the PUBLIC SCHOOLS can and can't do. I think both of you are missing the main point. The Army and Public School systems are two separate entities. The Army can allow head scarfs if they wanted to, the Public Schools CAN'T.

...from what I've heard of these guys, they are not the ones you want to mess with.

To an extent you are correct about the school, however she is in the ROTC program (Reserve Officer Training Corp) which upon completion allows her to be commissioned in the military, where its not allowed. Even if ROTC allowed it, the military does not (at least right now - as far as the seikh issue I didnt realize its only 2 people, nor did I realize under the UCMJ that can be revoked at a moments notice for no reason.

There seems to be an uptick in people wanting their personal beliefs to trump all others (across the religious spectrum and not just islam). What I find irritating is the demand to adapt to their religion while they refuse to adapt to their employers requirements.

It reminds me of my first job in fast food. The smokers took breaks almot every hour, while those who didnt smoke held the fort down. When a bunch of us took a health break, the smoking breaks stopped.

The point of that story is to highlight how exceptions can cause more issues than what people think.

Also before people bring it up, the military is not subject to civilian laws, instead being governed under the UCMJ. They understand they are giving up some of their rights when joining.

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
Isn't there a difference between BDU's (the uniform shown with the Turban) and Dress Uniforms? The parade would have been in dress uniform. Are there any pictures that show the Turban with a Dress Uniform rather than with BDUs?

this is the only pic I could find...


and those turbins come in Cammo, as well


www.sikhphilosophy.net...

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Well ill be damned!

I stand corrected, I did not know about this..........makes me want to research more now

thank you for providing more information

Then its a good day since we both learned something from this thread.

reply to post by Dilligaf28


Oh yay another head scarf. These people take the idea of a hat and turn it into a public nuisance. I wish the giant floppy cowboy hats would come back in style, so we can all play the "hat" card too.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


I thank you and others for standing up for what is right. Seeing the comments in this thread and the other article only brings semblance of Nazi Germany to mind. Seeing that others, as you mentioned the Sikh's, are allowed to wear their religious items does no good to others that are not allowed the freedom to do so.

It doesn't matter whether Muslims are at war with us or not. It is a matter of respect for others. In this case someone who is living in America (I'm not sure if she's American descent or not, but it seems to be implied she is an American citizen) with the same rights as you or I. The military is giving mixed messages here and obviously this needs to be brought to attention.

The United States of America was founded by the Pilgrims, a Christian sect. Most of the Founding Fathers were Christian and our Constitution was based on natural law provided by the Bible.

It is not politically correct BUT the USA was NOT founded on allowing multiple faiths . The same can be said for the so called jews, and all the other non Christian believers.....

The US was founded on the freedom to practice the different sects of Christianity, NOT the freedom to bring an alien god to our shores. Very few people in the US today actually understand the underpinnings of our nation.

reply to post by rogerstigers


I am having a hard time finding pics of a dress uniform as well; the pic you provided doesn't show the soldier in a parade formation or other such public function warranting a dress uniform so my search will continue. (no offense)

Having read the article, the following can be stated:

The military and all organizations associated with such have rules and regulations that go along with such. While it is not her faith that is in question, rather it is the fact that she wants the right to wear a head scarf as a symbol of that faith, and for them to pretty much make an exception for her.

Having faith is not a problem, and the US military does at times, has in the past made exceptions to its rules, giving people waivers for one reason or another, be it a physical waiver for its members if need be, and ultimately, goes with what ever the military needs in the way of personal at the time.

So the question must be asked of this person, what skills does she possess, that the military does not have, or possess that would make her a valuable asset for the US military to warrant a permit and a justification for her to be given such a waiver?

While her faith is accepted in the US military, however, in this case the school and ROTC is correct in forbidding her from participating, if not allowing for her to continue on in the program. Being in the military means you follow the rules, and such rules do not change without much investigation along with an act of congress along with the President of the USA agreeing to said changes.

If she does not agree with the policies, then the only course would be for her not to participate or join the US military at all. After all what does she think will happen if she becomes an officer, she would be allowed to continue to wear said garment in violation of the dress code?

I am off topic.. please excuse

I never say anythign about what a muslim can wear, i believe it is each to theri own, However ROTC has a uniform. RoTC is preparations for the military and i know a head scarf is not part of the unbifrom, if we choose to play outside our realm we must be prepared to go with the rules dang it., im wondering does the military allow headscarves? i dont think they dod, but i may be wrong. If we let a religion dictate this they can dictate our entire lives, im not saying just islam, all of religions need to stay within their 4 walls and leave society alone

and in islam it is not a requirement that a woman must wear the head scarf, it is a way of showing self respect in theri religion. SO to use this as an excuse is LIES and is actually makign me angry,i see america beign in europes shoes in 10 years from know,

O
You might want to get your facts straight before attempting to distort them..

The Pilgrims were the "progenitors" of the modern nation of the USA, this is a fact. You are reading SANITIZED history to promote the elitist global agenda of the melting pot. That was NEVER the aspiration of the Pilgrims or the Founding Fathers.

Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian like you would recognize today.. he admired the core philosophies that Jesus taught, but he did not adhere to dogmatic Christianity.

Ben Franklin believed pretty much what Jefferson believed.

Thomas Paine was a deist.

Three out of 39?

Indeed, the constitution specifically states "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States".

Exactly no "religious" test, if you take this in the context it was from back then it concerned any Christian religion, I can assure you that no other alien gods were even thought of.

The Constitution of the US does not endorse or support Christianity IN ANY WAY. It is a secular document because we are a secular country.

Then explain how most of the laws and views contained within are of specifically Christian natural law?

The Constitution is built upon natural law derived from the Bible.