Halloween's Pagan Themes Fill West's Faith Vacuum

reply to post by sonnny1


99.999% of rituals in paganism seem to root in fertility.

You would think there would be a lot more of us.

The symbol of the witch on a broomstick is because peasants used to go out into fields and jump over brooms to show the crops how high to grow.

The most disturbing one is the green faced witch, which stems from the witch hunts, the green face and gnarled fingers are from the accussed women in cages or jails that were beaten until brusied and their fingers curled from being smashed.

Originally posted by imawlinn
I am perfectly fine with the removal of religion from schools. I do not want my kids being brain-washed about imaginary happenings from a 2000 year old novel. Religion has no place in the classroom.

I find this somewhat interesting.

It's perfectly fine for a learned individual to frolic about, pretending to be a re-animated corpse or a caster of some kind of magic. But it is somehow... brainwashing... for the person to develop a faith in a higher power/intelligence.

You have demonstrated a lack of self-awareness. Your claims to sentience are now forfeit.

You have also demonstrated a critical failure in your understanding of the real origin/history of the collection of scripture known as the "Bible". Your claims to intelligence are now forfeit.

Those who similarly express this sentiment also have their claims to sentience and intelligence rendered null and void.

As to the cause of increased popularity in Halloween...

Honestly - I think there are many factors. For starters, it has become a rather inviting celebration that can be enjoyed by many. There are very little/no prerequisites to join in the celebration of shock&awe.

My family always had three -huge- holidays: Christmas, Halloween, and Independence Day. Halloween wasn't necessarily an expensive holiday - but my family always enjoyed costumes, hay-rides, etc.

To be honest, it's one of my favorites simply because of the atmosphere - fall/autumn has always been a very powerful atmosphere to me - the cool air brings sharper, clearer sounds; the changing of leaves/trees, etc. Halloween kind of wraps it all up into one moment - community activities combined with somewhat haunting/mystical changes and harvest overtones (cornstalks, scarecrows, hay bails, etc).

It and Christmas are the most emotionally moving for me. Somewhat oddly, while I am passionate about liberty and our nation... I'm not all that emotional over Independence Day.... It just doesn't strike quite the same chord with me as Christmas, Halloween, and Thanks Giving do.

reply to post by CodeRed3D


Religion is a dogmatic system of authority, it relies on restriction of freedom based upon myth and superstition in order to establish itself. Religion is NOT an expression of liberal thought or freedom, if anything it's the opposite.

Of course people will always be drawn to festivals and folklore but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest halloween represents people clinging on to mythology. It's a cultural tradition, nothing more.

Halloween is to Paganism what Christmas is to Yule.

Both ancient festivals usurped by the Christian Church in their attempt to impose their rule and stamp down on older beliefs

Both Christian festivals usurped by modern consumerism. Though in the case of Christmas/Yule at least, the modern version is closer to the original.

reply to post by lifeissacred


I believe you have been jaded by too many Abrahamic zealots. My religion (if you can call it that) is not dogmatic, encourages exploration of life and self, and openly accepts that other people have their own views on the world.

For me it is liberating because it gives me a framework to baseline my life on while being flexible enough to allow me to adapt and learn over the years.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D
Religion has always been the ultimate symbol of freedom, liberal thought, and dialect. Remove religion and you have the perfect slave.
www.bloomberg.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

In my attempts to form a rebuttal to this innane statement, my head exploded. Those capable of critical thought: be warned. The mind plays a funny trick when faced with conviction devoid of reason.

Lots of really good comments here.

I'm not referring to Catholicism, and the history of which would burn people who actually could read and question authority. Unfortunately, religion for many people stands for just that. I'm asking you to get past the block and think a bit deeper about this. The block is there for a reason - it was designed for a purpose by our educational system. That's why there is a lack of freedom of thought.

On the contrary, religion is one of the few tools that provides critical thinking, ie., it raises the pupal's awareness to question authority based on some moral foundation - you fill in the blank. That is the act of liberalism (freedom) I'm referring to. You can do that on your own without direction from a mainstream religious organization. It's really your right to choose what to believe to support your own moral structure. You get what you put into it.

Unfortunately when people are so reliant on a pastoral system to disseminate religious teaching, there isn't any difference between that and visiting an astrologer. You don't walk away with anything to meditate on except an action requested of you to perform.

The fact that many people here blame mainstream religion for the atrocities we see today shouldn't be surprising. Children have been trained to think this way on purpose by a Prussian education system. Stalin provided a successful run of that method.

The void that is left is servitude without any tools to interact with what is happening around you. You're left with no-one to question, a broken darwinian hypothesis, and a clay monkey. Unfortunately, as we see a collapse of this system over the course of the next few months, your knight in shining armor will be the very organization that has promoted the atheist - and you will bow to it.

Just by the comments I've read here, the Prussian education system has been successful. It's created an army of angry slaves with pitchforks.

The truth is, just by reading some of the ancient religious works like the Bible is just as effective as several years of Liberal education with a professional. TPTB would rather you question the religion or have you require a professional to teach you how to think.

reply to post by lifeissacred

Religion is a dogmatic system of authority, it relies on restriction of freedom based upon myth and superstition in order to establish itself. Religion is NOT an expression of liberal thought or freedom, if anything it's the opposite.

Religion, simply, is a structured belief system established and shared amongst a group of people.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Christianity is a pretty diverse "religion" - The core belief common amongst all Christians is that Jesus was the messiah. After that - it all starts to get a little chaotic... hell - even what "the messiah" is varies greatly from denomination to denomination and individual to individual.

The Bible even mentions this in Paul's letters to the churches (who couldn't agree on anything, then... of course - many people don't even understand what the Bible is - both the ones who criticize it and cherish it as though it is God, itself).

Honestly, I find many to have a very under-developed faith and understanding of faith. Faith is not had in certainty. It is no act of faith to consider or believe in that which can be relied upon. Those who require scripture or pulpits to outline their faith for them have no faith, nor do they have any spirit. And you -really- don't gain an appreciation for faith until you've put your faith in the wrong place, before.

Ultimately, though - everyone chooses to place faith in something; consciously or not. You may place your faith in the words of translated scriptures. You may place your faith in the person standing at the pulpit and the processes that brought that person there. You may place your faith in the people standing around you, singing the same songs or listening to the same sermon....

You're not really a true component of that religion until you begin discussing what it is to be a part of it and questioning its role and benefit/detriment to your life.

Of course people will always be drawn to festivals and folklore but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest halloween represents people clinging on to mythology. It's a cultural tradition, nothing more.

It is the nature of culture and tradition to shape the mind and the future. You say it as though cultural tradition is not of any kind of importance.

Keep in mind - we are seeing an increased number of cases where people believe (or, at least claim) to be vampires and the like.

This has spiked amongst teenagers because of a certain popular novel/movie series that shall not be named because glittering vampires are ridiculous. It's become a rather popular "role playing" phenomena that is treated... dangerously like reality (for example - someone does something inappropriate and blames it on a past life he/she was allowing to express itself).

As these people get older... will they continue to permit that as acceptable conduct? Will that begin to find its way into our laws and court system?

... think about it a bit.

I'm not saying there's some kind of scheme to destroy society or that Halloween is evil (hell, it's one of my favorite holidays - as I've said before) - but I've noticed an increasing trend where people are not -willing- to distinguish fantasy from reality. It's not that they can't - it's that they simply don't want to take responsibility for their own actions (it's like the Salem Witch Trials.... ironic in more ways than one).

If you want your children to learn about religion TEACH THEM YOURSELF. Otherwise send them to a private school or take them to the church/synagogue/etc. of your choice.

Is that so darn hard to do? Seriously, are you expecting someone else to do the job of raising your children the way YOU want them raised?

Why oh why do religious zealots keep trying to force public educational institutes to become religious institutes I will never understand.

There are more than 4,200 religions which I could find which have been counted.... and an unknown total number of religions throughout history... do you have a specific religion which you are advocating our public school system teach? Because obviously if we start teaching religion in public schools, teachers will not have any time left to teach reading, writing or arithmetic, nor art, nor physical education. In the end, all children would be doing would be learning about religion. I don't like that idea myself.

Keep religion out of public education. The only way I would support religion being taught in the public school system would be as an elective in High School which would teach about ALL the different religions of the world in a NON BIASED way.

That would be education, otherwise what you are advocating for is called INDOCTRINATION into your kind of religion.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by CodeRed3D


You should. Religion has always been the ultimate symbol of freedom, liberal thought, and dialect. Remove religion and you have the perfect slave.

History proves you wrong on this one. A religious education is the antithesis of freedom, liberal thought and dialect.

I offer this an a prime example....



Does this look like freedom to you? No "yeah but"

Christian religious education mirrors this travesty in logical thought.
All religious training is indoctrination and you know it; regardless of whether it takes place in a school classroom or from the pulpit.

epic fail! Don't let your ideology [or cosmology in your case] get in the way of your common sense!

If you want to win converts to Christianity the old tried and true mantra works best............

"If you don't want to burn in hell forever and ever, you better join us because only weuns can save you from eternal damnnation" Fear always works best in religious conversion; not reason.

reply to post by CodeRed3D


For real, do you think Protestant Christianity is the only religion, or do you think it's the only one that leads to freedom and liberal thought? Because believe me, Protestant Christianity has not been without its blood and fascism, and Pagans tend to be much more free and open to other ideas.

reply to post by CodeRed3D

As a Pagan, schools should either remove all religion from schools or allow the different faiths to be represented. I am sick of Christians always complaining they are being persecuted because their religion is not be taught in school and the 10 commandments not being hang on the wall. If they want to see what real persecution is all about, they should go to an Middle Eastern country and see how they fair. All this talk about freedom, they sure don't want freedom for us pagans. It is only freedom of religion from Christians. As for holidays, the Christians stolen them from us and we are taking them back.

reply to post by lifeissacred

I agree with you 100%. Religion does take freedom away. I notice these so called sins is the restriction of all things fun or natural human traits. Yes, there is some things humans do is bad that should be punished like killing, stealing and raping. Sins like dancing, since there is Christian groups that are against it should be done and lets dance. I don't like religion and I use to be a born again Christian. It was 8 years of hell and boredom. These people do not know how to have fun and enjoy life.

Christianity hijacked paganism, then downplayed its relevance. You wonder what the witch burning was about? Getting rid of any remaining pesky little pagans that offered a bright spiritual alternative to the dull violent constricting and gender biased machine that is Christianity.

There is a reason people are looking for an alternative spiritual path and thats because people do not agree with the picture presented by mainstream religions. Male god, Women are servants and belong in the home, no sex before marriage, no playing with yourself, no drinking, no drugs of any kind, say grace before every meal, go to church on a sunday, no contraception so you have about 8 million kids, no divorcing, never question authority, oh and be prepared to kill someone if they insult "your" beliefs.

Annnddd theres also the dirty laundry thats been aired over the past 50 years concerning the church. How it still survives i dont have a clue.

Cant understand why people arent subscribing to those "vaules" anymore /end sarcasm

reply to post by CodeRed3D

Religion has always been the ultimate symbol of freedom, liberal thought, and dialect.

You have my vote for ATS's funniest sentence of the year.