New Yorkers rage over ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protestors

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Gab1159

 

Interesting reading, but what has it to do with OWS? I didn't see OWS mentioned anywhere, just an imaginary "99%".

Some of those "demands" are sensible (ex. Term limits to prevent career politicians), some are less than sane (ex. presuming to tell a private citizen who he can and can't work for based solely upon who he has worked for previously), and some are purely suicidal (ex. graduated "progressive" income tax combined with universal health care).

Some are even contradictory. For example, in one place it demands an end to all tax deductions (because they are vehicles to evade taxes), and in another it demands institution of tax deductions (for employers who pay off student loans). Can't have it both ways - it's either/or.

For that list of demands to be adopted, all hell will break loose in the US. Those "non-violent" types will either get violent in a hell of a hurry, or die at a disadvantage.

For myself, if they manage to ram through anything like that, I will simply quit working, quit paying taxes period, and drop out of this society altogether, because it won't be long for this world, and I don't care to sink with it.

The list seems designed for the most part to convert this Republic into a "Peoples Democracy" - that cute euphemism for what were REALLY totalitarian dictatorships that was so in vogue last century.

So you are claiming this list of demands is what OWS stands for? No wonder they're all over the map with their wants.

Question: if, as the document states, it's "non-partisan", why does it link to HuffPo in the upper left corner? It appears that it's a thoroughly partisan document, attempting to veil itself by claiming internally to be "non-partisan", and throwing out just enough bait to bait in unwary conservative types, then slap 'em upside the head with all the socialistic demands.

Nope, I believe that if by some miracle this thing gets rammed through, we'll soon find out where the REAL "99%" stands - and we'll see that none of the "99%"s are really even close to that figure.

Maybe when the dust settles and the smoke clears there will be some kind of majority left standing, but I seriously doubt if even then they'll be able to find a 99% consensus.

edit on 2011/10/23 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

I just read the demands, and agree with you wholeheartedly. Some of the demands are common sense, and some are contradictory, as you said. Some of them, however, remind of me what you would get when you ask a room full of 3rd graders how to make the world a better place. (And I know, because I've been teaching elementary school for 22 years.)

It also really irritates me that they claim to speak for the 99%. Maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by L00kingGlass

 

It really is isn't it?

At first people were discussing these protests and now all of a sudden, every thread is attacking them and trying to discredit the movement... and then trying to say that everyone feels angry about it.


No they don't, it's just these these "agents" are being the most vocal, that's all.

Funny thing i've noticed about all the OWS bashers on this site, they are all like twins. 90% of theese OWS bashers have the same political ideology,"love Israel-hate muslims" types. Most of them seem like egocentric and arrogant individuals who think they hold the answer to every single question.
I dont think they are getting paid to discredit the OWS, they are doing it because they fear this world might become a better place for everyone. The current financial situation suits them very well, they're probably earning money of peoples fear and misery.

Originally posted by Intrud3r

Funny thing i've noticed about all the OWS bashers on this site, they are all like twins. 90% of theese OWS bashers have the same political ideology,"love Israel-hate muslims" types. Most of them seem like egocentric and arrogant individuals who think they hold the answer to every single question.
I dont think they are getting paid to discredit the OWS, they are doing it because they fear this world might become a better place for everyone. The current financial situation suits them very well, they're probably earning money of peoples fear and misery.

edit on 24-10-2011 by Intrud3r because: (no reason given)

That is because they are all using the zionist megaphone internet tool, it can be programmed to search tons of sites like this and hit on certain phrases and words and it will alert the zionists to post en masse.

I'm not going to get into the pro vs. anti OWS stuff, because honestly the arguments back and forth, particularly the name calling, are tedious to read and I'm not going to stoop to that.

What I would like to do is clarify a bit of information that apparently some of the members here are not comprehending.

People always joke around that New Yorkers consider themselves to be at the center of the world, and to a certain extent that is true. However, at the same time there is often a COMPLETE lack of understanding of NYC, as displayed by many members posting in this thread.

It is apparent that some people don't understand that while downtown Manhattan contains many of the offices of the corporations that are being protested against, the "1%" (whoever that may be, in your opinion) don't live there. None of them.

More than a decade ago no one lived down there. It was businesses only and was deserted at night. That changed when the economy started going south. Many old office towers were converted into residential buildings. Those buildings were purposely set up as mixed use. Yes, some of the housing is market rate (usually in the millions) but many of the apartments are reserved for middle income and low income use as well.

Why should you care about that? Well, the oft-repeated statement that the only people being "annoyed" by this are the rich is false. The "rich" leave their Wall Street jobs and hop on the Metro North to their Westchester homes, or the LIRR to the Long Island McMansions. The people who live in the area are working families. People who are trying to get to work.

The people making comments like "oh boo hoo, so the protests are disturbing the millionaires" are poorly informed. This is false.

New York is like any other city, just more compressed. We're a city of all types of people. Working people, who stand for many of the same things that the OWS protestors stand for. That doesn't mean that those who aren't attending the protests are "the enemy" and that attacks should be aimed at all New Yorkers simply because some people don't know anything about NYC.

As far as some of the allegations people have made in this thread, here's a response from someone who lives here. Yes, some people I know have been berated by protestors while walking to their jobs. What jobs? One person I know is a waiter at a restaurant walking distance from the park, closer to the WTC site and he was berated on the way to work. Another person is a teller at Chase and met with the same treatment.

So yeah... it's happening. Are a waiter and a teller the 1% or are they people working an 8 hour day on a crappy salary trying to pay for their kids food?

And yes, I walked by over the weekend and there ARE cleanliness issues there.

Again, I'm not trying to get involved in "for" or "against" here. But it would be helpful if people would try to verify things before posting. And maybe stop the attacks?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


If you ever bothered to actually read my posts instead of being hell-bent on argument, you would know that while I do support the movement I do not condone the mistreatment of others. Others would include pedestrians not involved, people trying to get to their jobs, and especially not seeing the police as the enemy. My activities and conversations go beyond ATS. My information comes from people who are there and I have been to Occupy Boston, which granted, is much smaller scale.

I believe in the message that is trying to get out. I support the people actively trying to get it out. I know for damn sure that this isn't about re-distribution of wealth or wanting hand outs. I also know that there are bad apples, there always will be. I also know that those who don't want this movement to succeed will hop on any little thing or make up any little thing to give all of this a bad name. I am a passionate person and that is reflected in anything I say. My heart is in this, many people's hearts are in this.

It may be foolish to admit this on a forum but it hurts to me to see that people who are putting their heart in and making the effort to change this craziness or at least raise awareness of it, that is affecting the entire planet and all those who live on it, so easily dismissed as lazy hippies or worse.

I don't know what else to say.

reply to post by Djarums


The 1%ers live in gated, guarded communities, in places like greenwich CT lol. They aren't stupid, and they aren't too cheap to provide their homes and families with armed guards, top notch security systems etc. I have worked in those neighborhoods before.....

It would have been way better if they organized and blocked their gates, but the police depts in those areas would not let that happen.

Originally posted by Gab1159

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by RationalDespair

 

They don't even know what they are standing up against!! All they do is parrot the loudest voice heard in the crowd with the human megaphone routine. They need to be in DC at the root of all problems.

The hypocrisy within the movement is truly awesome as they pick and choose which gazillionaires to target and which to ignore.

I'm done and the people of NYC have apparently reached their tipping point as well.. Keep on pushing

Stop spreading lies! Most of your posts are generalizations and discrediting. Have you actually done any research? Here for you: The Declaration Of The 99%

This is the declaration of the Occupy Together movement. Stop saying they don't know what they're protesting about. They're protesting against greed, corporations, governments, the 1%...They're protesting against this whole rigged system. And you know it, you just prefer saying they don't know what they're protesting about.

Now read the Declaration and actually get to know what they're protesting against...

You know what? It looks to me like they are declaring a General Assembly outside of Congress to represent "We The People"... what's all this stuff about electing people to represent their districts? None of those people represent me or my ideals(except perhaps a few Ron Paul Libertarians, and even that may be borderline, as some of them may be left leaning and pro legalization of various drugs. )

Here is a quote where they are doing an end run around the Constitution by setting up assemblies and voting blocs for direct democracy voting....and trying to invoke the Constitution at the same time.

The People, consisting of all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18, regardless of party affiliation and voter registration status, shall elect Two Delegates, one male and one female, by direct vote, from each of the existing 435 Congressional Districts to represent the People at the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Philadelphia. Said Assembly shall officially convene on July 4, 2012. The office of Delegate shall be open to all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18. Election Committees, elected or appointed by local General Assemblies or the Working Group on the 99% Declaration, shall organize, coordinate and fund this election by direct democratic voting.

source sites.google.com...
And I have to tell you I find it extremely disturbing that they are setting up delegations for voting outside of our elected officials. I'm also fairly certain this has come from the Socialist Party and Soros and DSA.

Originally posted by Intrud3r
Most of them seem like egocentric and arrogant individuals who think they hold the answer to every single question.
I dont think they are getting paid to discredit the OWS, they are doing it because they fear this world might become a better place for everyone. The current financial situation suits them very well, they're probably earning money of peoples fear and misery.

Indeed, I totally agree.
These people are so stuck up and arrogant that it's just ridiculous... and yes, I don't think they feel everyone has the right to be happy and secure... and these people are happy making money out of peoples misfortune.

This is why these protests, this movement... MUST work.

It's time to get rid of this attitude and show these people that the world will not stand for this any more.

:cool

reply to post by OutKast Searcher
That was a joke smart one. And if it wasn't he is still right. At least these people are being peaceful and have not, yet, started rioting. By the way, when the riots begin, i will be on the first plane out.