Clerk kills would-be robber who grabbed daughter

Originally posted by posthuman
Guns do far more to endanger people than they do to protect, by design, no less.

The British homicide rate has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.

Just Facts


People do MORE to endanger people.

Originally posted by Jepic
Why would you not fire warning shots? It's absolutely justifiable.

Once that case goes to court, the prosecutor is going to argue that if you were firing 'warning shots', you never felt that your life or those of your family were ever in sufficient danger to justify discharging a firearm at all. Not only that, but he's also likely going to argue that by firing 'warning shots', you're placing the public at large in danger of being hit by a stray bullet. Have fun in prison.

Intentionally shooting to wound will get you in trouble, too, for much the same reason. The only time a firearm should ever be used is when deadly force is already necessary.

as I have been told, it's easier to argue with the coroner than it is the judge

Originally posted by posthuman

Originally posted by Butterbone
reply to post by posthuman

 

The clerk was also the mother. So that means the clerk is a woman. And most women won't take an open run at a grown man thinking they can knock his jaw sideways.

Your machismo is admirable. But if you were a young woman with 2 small children I doubt puffing up your chest and attempting to knock someone out would be your best shot at self defense.

Now if you happen to be a young mother with two small children and a grown man attempts to take one of those children after attempting to rob you, AND you happen to have a 9mm pistol that will put down a grown man with the pull of a trigger, then it's probably best to pull that trigger.

You do what you like Macho Man. Just make sure that you can be Everywhere, at All times, and that there is no one on this planet who is more macho than you and can't knock your jaw sideways and I promise that the rest of us will trade our guns for doughnuts.

But just in case you can't be everywhere, all the time, ready to knock out every single criminal on the planet, I think most real life people should keep their guns and learn to use them properly.

I live in a country with no guns, while events like this do occur, most of the time they can be rectified without the use of a firearm; regardless of who is being attacked. Please bear in mind that the knowledge that I will not be shot should I intervene anywhere means that I'm far more inclined to provide assistance to a person who clearly cannot assist themselves. The lady was in a store anyway, if she didn't have a gun there would have been various heavy items she could have weilded as weapons (with the knowledge she would not have a gun pulled on her). Guns do far more to endanger people than they do to protect, by design, no less.

You need to rephrase that. You live in a country where it is illegal to have guns. I am sure the criminals still have guns, just because it is illegal you think all the criminals who spend their lives breaking other laws, just decide to walk on down to the police station and turn in their weapons?

Since all the latest replies convey the same message, I'll just post one general reply to you guys.

I stand by my point. That's what I would and will do if I find to happen myself in that situation. I'll give him a verbal warning and if he doesn't stop I'll chase him. If I don't manage to catch him or if I see that he is too fast, then I will shoot.

Chances are I will catch him and give him a mild beating. Enough to keep him down until the police arrive.

One thing is for certain. He/she wouldn't get away with my daughter or son.

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by Veritas1

 

How do you die from being shot in the knee?

People have died from being shot in the leg, if you hit the right spot with the right artery one can be dead within minutes, depending on the place and damage and amount of blood loss.

Here is an example.
sports.espn.go.com...

If your familiar with human anatomy and have a good aim, it's not something that is unfeasible to accomplish.

Even in fighting without guns, it is something that is used as a way to win in some situations and strategies, in sword fights for instance. One of the strategies to win is to aim for the right spot with the right blood vessel and artery, you don't even have to do much just slash it open, then it will just be a defensive game of staying away and on guard as the opponent literally bleeds to death in his frenzy to attack you.

If you hit the right spot it could be in minutes that he hits the ground, and if he is in overdrive and got his blood pumping that will add to the effect, and he will literally pass-out/drop like a sack of potatoes when he reaches a point. In fact the same could be accomplished with a sharpened pencil and stabbing someone in the right place at the right time, and yes they could die from that.

And even in hand to hand fighting there are holds and chokes such as the rear naked choke that blocks the arteries and if done right they will pass out fast, and the only thing it would take to kill the person, or to cause serious damage to the brain, is holding the choke a few more moments then required.

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyways people should look up the main blood vessels and arteries.... Science and edumacation, is fun.

www.vein.co.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


Anyways to the topic.

It's hard to feel sorry for this guy at all, even though everybody has there story. And worse if the female clerk in question was not armed, she would have possibly ended up dead. And who knows what the guy was planing on doing with the kid, and what would happen to her kid, if she let the perpetrator take her daughter out that door. If anything it sounds like he was planing on using her as a shield, or as collateral and the baby could of ended up as collateral damage.

But in either case, foolish move on his part and the female mother in question is really lucky in some ways. Because it could of ended in a much different way, it literally could of been just the toss of the dice, and things could of gone really wrong, such as she could of hit the child instead of the perpetrator. Really if he was just going to rob the place and got a gun pulled on him. He should of just raised his hands and walk out, no need to involve children, such things can turn dangerous for everybody in the area, especially the child stuck in the middle. And in this case it probably made the situation worse by trying to take the child out, WTF was he thinking

From what I see in the possible scenarios that such a thing could of gone down....The way it ended up is, one of the better conclusions. Because more then one person could of ended up dead, some like the kids in question could of ended up dead, just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Originally posted by GmoS719
It isn't about money, I obviously think what he did was wrong, but did he deserve to die?
I don't know.

Whether he deserved to die is irrelevant. The fact is that he attempted to kidnap a child, from an armed and present parent. That is suicide. It's like "suicide by cop", only none were currently "available".

Originally posted by GmoS719
I'm not sure what I would do in the situation. If I had a gun I would definitely shoot though.

Oh now that is sig worthy right there!

reply to post by Jepic


She was well within her rights to shoot the man who grabbed her child. Would you have preferred her wait and see if he listened and gently placed her child on the ground. The man was desperate, obviously, to have gone in a store, attempted a robbery and then grab a 1 year old... What do you think he was doing bringing her to a safe environment??? How many stories are on the news with parents who are baffled by the disappearance of their children... sobbing on the t.v. with " I should have done this, I should have done that... I wish I would have" well guess what she does not have to ask the question... EVER!!! She did what she was supposed to do as a responsible mother, and citizen... Wake up people we can't hold every criminals hand and say we understand what can we do to help??? This world is going down the tube everyday we need to realize that we can't count on everyone else to care for ourselves and our children we have to take it in our own hands and face reality... this world is not perfect....