Olbermann interviews marine veteran who shamed police

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by jhn7537

 

The whole time the cops around him are not aggressive, behaving like militants, and in very little riot gear

Oh they werent aggressive because he wasnt a 150 lbs civilian.

That is definitely the case there... He was a 'trained' big boy, none of those NYPD cops wanted to wrestle around with that guy with all those cameras on them...

It is now as it has always been for Marines to protect the people of the world in any situation every Marine is a leader when they need to be, that is why we train for every climb and place wear a globe for worldwide service that includes the USA God bless the USMC

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
If you can't see the direct correlation between this quote

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
Lincoln

and our current topic of discussion then my debate with you is obviously a moot point.

My beef isn't with protesting. It is with this one Marines behavior, when there was no cause.

That is the only place for military bearing, that has no place in civilian society... blind obedience to orders is exactly what you DON'T want. Think for yourself, don't just follow the programming...

Military bearing is more than just blindly following orders. Its being able to control yourself, your emotions, your actions despite the inherit reflex. To say that type of control has no place in civilian society is asking for there to be a civil-less society. If this Marine had learned military bearing, he would have seen the cops around him doing no harm, towards him or any others in the area, and not had made a spectacle of himself.

As far as assesing the situation, he was probably the most lucid person there , there was no fear in that man because he could asses the situation and realize THERE WAS NO DANGER.

[I don't understand how you can create a situation in a non violent way...

Have you ever seen the show Hardcore Pawn, about a Detroit pawn shop? Well, there are many cases of just this on there. People walk in trying to sell something, when the dealer tells them their item is worth less or they don't even want it, these folks go off. The raise their voice, yelling at the dealer, screaming so others can hear that they are getting 'ripped off.' They created a non-violent situation.

Someone with views as polarized as yours leads me to believe that there's something not right here... I'm not making any accusations , it's just hard for me to believe someone with your avatar being so solidly anti 1st ammendment.

I don't know how you or anyone can claim I am or have ever been anti-1st amendment. I am for everything in it. I am for protests. I am for this Marine going protest. I don't see how anyone here can not see the simple fact that I have reiterated over and over again, that my criticism of this Marine is his behavior and appearance in the instance that gained him fame. How that equates to being anti-1A is beyond my comprehension.

No he is much more than a trained big boy. The man is a combat hardened Marine. If you aren't the same you need to keep your mouths shut and your ignorant ideas to share with others the same ilk as yourselves...

Originally posted by Wolf321

Have you ever seen the show Hardcore Pawn, about a Detroit pawn shop? Well, there are many cases of just this on there. People walk in trying to sell something, when the dealer tells them their item is worth less or they don't even want it, these folks go off. The raise their voice, yelling at the dealer, screaming so others can hear that they are getting 'ripped off.' They created a non-violent situation.

OMG let me get this straight you do not believe any officers were abusing the protestors but you believe the acting on a show as fake as the WWE and Operation Repo combined? LOL Man you just lost all credibility.

Originally posted by hypervigilant
I saw was a Marine taking the initiative against other people in uniform denying Americans their right to protest

How were they being denied the right to protest?

an evil regime that is stealing from them and crapping on the constitution.

I agree completely!

reply to post by Brotherman


So what you are saying is that he was in uniform specifically to make a scene. I do take issue with that.

Originally posted by ker2010
Oh they werent aggressive because he wasnt a 150 lbs civilian.

So with everyone 150lbs or less, the cops were beating down?

reply to post by ker2010


Good job jumping in without reading my posts in this thread. The example I gave of the show was so others can relate. Such behavior I have encountered personally, it isn't a complete work of television fiction.

The Guy was very loud and you noticed how the cops were passive. Yes I guarantee you had that been some small dorky civilian guy being that loud the cops would have told him to shut up and move along and would have tackled him and cuffed him if he didn't comply

reply to post by Wolf321


He was in uniform to reinforce his message maybe you should do the same?

reply to post by Brotherman


If his regs provide for that, great. I can't say if they do or don't. I can assure you though, wearing them incorrectly isn't in any reg. If he respects the Marine Corps and the integrity presented by being a well dressed Marine, he wouldn't have worn his as such.

reply to post by Wolf321


Do you see any over reaction by LEOs in this clip?


Perhaps this is what the true Patriot Marine was shouting about when he said "there is no honor in what you are doing" to the police.

I'm afraid you have let your ideology get in the way of your common sense.

The abuse of American citizens exercising their first amendment rights, and you focus on the way a military man wears his uniform. That's pathetic and disgraceful. I agree you do need to change your avatar!

reply to post by Wolf321


MCO P1020. 34G tends to agree with your views but in order to enforce this must mean every Veteran that is homeless wearing their old fatigues is guilty every Vet that has even worn there PT sweater with red Nike shorts is guilty etc etc. As a matter of fact I'll be wearing similar attire unbecoming of a Marine at a demonstration to bring more attention to homeless veterans on veterans day. Would you question my respect for the Corps or my uniform, my integrity or judgement?

reply to post by whaaa


Thank you for being someone to offer up something as evidence.

In this video, I see only 4 possible cases of abuse. The first two where a cop punches a guy, and when the cop flips and pins a guy in an orange shirt. I can't hear what is being said between the cops and the protestors, or see what led up to the incident, but it looks like they more than likely used excessive force. The incident with the women and pepper spray, most certainly. That incident was more than 3 weeks old and not at the Time Square location. The last possible case, was where a guy was laying under a cops scooter rolling around. The cop doesn't appear to be driving it exactly, and I can easily see this one as a guy trying to make a scene or get arrested.

Let's assume that even that last one, and the others are certifiable cases of police brutality. The all occurred in the day time, and uncertain of the location in proximity to the Marine.

The Marine said he saw a woman get punched. If this is the case, whey did he not charge in when witnessed and risk arrest to defend the woman?! Why is no one criticizing him for his lack of action there? If he had made a big stink at a legitimate point of brutality as he claims, THAT video would have been on the internet and I may just well be singing his praise as a hero of the people. But no, we only see him at night in an area of police doing nothing, and screaming as if they were clubbing people left and right. His main complaint in the video was that there were cops even there and they were dressed in partial riot gear.

I hope any cops who abuses the protesters get fired. I also hope that any protester who acts like an @$$ to feel important or get attention for themselves or any social/political cause, gets the full punishment for their crime. This Marine, in the video that is his claim to fame, was simply making an @$$ of himself. He defended no one. He just puffed up his chest, and let out a lot of hot air.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


You don't want your name on a list? That's your right but I think that's extremely sad and IMHO is the kind of mentality that TPTB want. We should not fear the government... They should fear us, the people, the ones who they're supposed to be taking care of and they aren't and haven't been for a long long time. Again, it's your choice, and I don't know you or your situation, but if you have kids or plan to have kids, don't you want to be able to tell them that you stood up for what's right? Even if we're not successful, I'd rather put everything on the line for my fellow Americans, for our future generations and for the great country of America that I believe can one day live up to that mantle again. To me, THAT is true patriotism, not pledging allegiance to a president or false ideals, but to renew the intentions of our forefathers and unite with my fellow Americans. United we stand, divided we fall. Peace.

Originally posted by Brotherman
MCO P1020. 34G tends to agree with your views but in order to enforce this must mean every Veteran that is homeless wearing their old fatigues is guilty every Vet that has even worn there PT sweater with red Nike shorts is guilty etc etc.

Are you serious?

No one would call a vet without a home or possessions to wear their uniform dishonorable . Nor would a vet wearing a pt shirt with mismatched shorts be disgracing themselves. They may both be out of reg, but neither are associating the character of the wearer with the uniform component being worn.

If a vet was running around wearing a fatigue top and jeans, exposing himself or robbing a store, then that would bring much disgrace to the uniform, especially if as in the case with this Marine, they wore it as part of their purpose to make a point.

edit: It's less about his wearing the uniform, and more about his behavior while wearing it. Case in point, when Gay vets went to the white house to protest, they wore their uniforms. They wore them properly and they behaved respectfully while still protesting. Some got arrested, but none were screaming or shouting at the cops, or wearing their dress tops half open showing off their bras. I disagreed completely with their protest, but I had nothing bad to say about there behavior in protesting.

reply to post by Wolf321


To answer your question: Yes, I am serious. Is this not what your talking about in objection to this Sgt. In uniform though? If not then what is?

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by Brotherman

 

If his regs provide for that, great. I can't say if they do or don't. I can assure you though, wearing them incorrectly isn't in any reg. If he respects the Marine Corps and the integrity presented by being a well dressed Marine, he wouldn't have worn his as such.

I have heard this before ......





On ATS? Imagine that!

Originally posted by whaaa
The abuse of American citizens exercising their first amendment rights, and you focus on the way a military man wears his uniform. That's pathetic and disgraceful. I agree you do need to change your avatar!

I just caught your edited response.

The Marine is the topic of the thread. I acknowledged there is at least one and likely more instances of abuse by the cops. I don't condone it in the least. This thread and others I have commented on, are about the Marine and his supposed heroic stance. It wasn't heroic, he stood up against nothing. If anything, his own story shows a discrepancy of his own supposed morality or not having stepped up when he had seen cops abusing a woman earlier.

If you take away the cause of the protest, and look only at the video of the Marine going off, he did nothing to earn praise or respect, except by those who just simply hate cops and support conflict.

reply to post by Wolf321

If you take away the cause of the protest, and look only at the video of the Marine going off, he did nothing to earn praise or respect, except by those who just simply hate cops and support conflict.

But it wasn't, it was about POLICE BRUTALITY!

He said he was there over the police brutality taking place... but if he was there for OWS then more kudos. However you are grasping at straws with a hypothetical scenario. Hence your point being moot!
(facepalm)

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


You can continue to make remarks with no substance or you can counter my claim and show me a photo or video of a person who does respect the Corp and the image a Marine presents also dressed as poorly and misbehaving as the Marine in question did.

Why can no one here create a valid argument for this Marine to have presented himself so poorly? Maybe we can try a fill in the blank to make it easier:

Marine Sergeant Shamar Thomas was right in his behavior and appearance in the instance where he shouted at cops who were doing no harm or infringing on no persons rights because ______.

This uncalled for behavior does not disgrace him as a human or a Marine because _______.

He is also a hero for not having stepped in when he claimed to have witnessed a women being punched by cops or no reason because______.