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The origins of the order have given rise to learned discussions, to fictitious legends and hazardous conjectures. The unquestionable founder was one Gerald or Gerard, whose birthplace and family name it has been vainly sought to ascertain. On the other hand, his title as founder is attested by a contemporary official document, the Bull of Paschal II, dated 1113, addressed to "Geraudo institutori ac praeposito Hirosolimitani Xenodochii".
Originally posted by Janus
They more than likely opperated as small groups
Originally posted by Janus
The templar connection to Scotland is strong, as it is in certain parts of France and Spain.
Did they anywhere continue the knightly order? Is there anywhere that they remain today? Are there any Mason societies that are heirs to Templars?
Originally posted by Janus
It is entirely possible the Templars did indeed over time go from a Knigtly Order to the Masons we know today, but you would have to ask a Mason about that.
Originally posted by Janus
In England there are many Templar Churches and Buildings. After the purge all of these would have reverted back to the Church. Englands Kings have always been an indipendant bunch so perhaps they did allow the Templars to continue in one form or another. But again there is no evidence either way.
Originally posted by AtheiX
Originally posted by Janus
They more than likely opperated as small groups
Is there an area where they operated as a large group?
Originally posted by Janus
The templar connection to Scotland is strong, as it is in certain parts of France and Spain.
I've still got no answer about what was exactly their activity there and I'd like to know that.
Did they anywhere continue the knightly order? Is there anywhere that they remain today? Are there any Mason societies that are heirs to Templars?
Originally posted by Janus
It is entirely possible the Templars did indeed over time go from a Knigtly Order to the Masons we know today, but you would have to ask a Mason about that.
Originally posted by Janus
In England there are many Templar Churches and Buildings. After the purge all of these would have reverted back to the Church. Englands Kings have always been an indipendant bunch so perhaps they did allow the Templars to continue in one form or another. But again there is no evidence either way.
Did the English kings grab Templar treasury? If they didn't, that may mean they allied themselves with Templars. If they did, that may mean they did the same that Philip did. If they allowed the Templars to continue their organization, what form of organization it was?
[edit on 3-10-2004 by AtheiX]
Originally posted by Ambient Sound
There are quite a few masons on ATS but I doubt you will get any of them to confirm any kind of past link to the Templars.
Originally posted by Leveller
But Atheix, I strongly suggest that you carry out your own research first. A lot of the answers to what you have already asked are freely available if you Google.
Originally posted by AtheiX
Originally posted by Leveller
But Atheix, I strongly suggest that you carry out your own research first. A lot of the answers to what you have already asked are freely available if you Google.
I don't think so. I don't think there are many sites and many info on the net about them. If there are many, why won't the people give me them by the opportunity of our talk? And what sites do you mean as an example?
Originally posted by AtheiX
Are there Masonic societies that are heirs of the Templars or are linked with them?
Who's a Mason on this forum?
Originally posted by MrNECROS
There is a Masonic Templar Society (York Rite) I found on the web but it doesn't have any claims to a lineage.
www.knightstemplar.org...
www.templarhistory.com...
I don't think anyone would really want to though, for all the gloss groups like this put out, its hard to get away from the fact that these guys were ultimately part of a rather underhanded and disreputable organisiation, the only justification that most people give is along the lines of "Yeah, but the Catholic Church was worse..."
Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Janus, let's split hairs on this:
In 1118, during the reign of Baldwin II, Hugues de Payens, a knight of Champagne, and eight companions bound themselves by a perpetual vow, taken in the presence of the Patriarch of Jerusalem, to defend the Christian kingdom. Baldwin accepted their services and assigned them a portion of his palace, adjoining the temple of the city; hence the title "pauvres chevaliers du temple" (Poor Knights of the Temple).
"The Templars "chose the name militia templi - soldiers of the Temple - after the temple supposedly built by Solomon in Jerusalem, near which they had been assigned quarters by the King."
John J. Robinson, Born in Blood
"...In 1894 a group of British Army officers, with a budget of just five hundred pounds, set out to try and map the vaults below the ruins of Herod's Temple. The contingent of Royal Engineers led by Lieutenant Charles Wilson conducted some excellent work under very adverse conditions and they could confirm that the chambers and passageways they found were often vaulted with keystone arches. They also confirmed that they were not the first visitors to the subterranean galleries when they came across Templar artifacts discarded some seven hundred and forty years previously. These consisted of part of a sword, a spur, part of a spear or lance, and a small Templar cross."
Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, The Hiram Key
"In 1118, nine Knights Crusaders in the East, among whom were Geoffroi de Saint-Omer and Hughes de Payens, consecrated themselves to religion, and took an oath between the hands of the Patriarch of Constantinople, a See always secretly or openly hostile to that of Rome from the time of Photius. The avowed object of the Templars was to protect the Christians who came to visit the Holy Places: their secret object was the re-building of the Temple of Solomon on the model prophesied by Ezekiel."
General Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma
"The real task of the nine knights was to carry out research in the area in order to obtain certain relics and manuscripts which contained the essence of the secret traditions of Judaism and ancient Egypt, some of which probably went back to the days of Moses...There is no doubt that [they] fulfilled this particular mission and that the knowledge obtained from their finds was taught in the oral tradition of the Order's...secret circles."
Gaetan Delaforge, The Templar Tradition in the Age of Aquarius
One hair at a time- 500 word limit for me. Too many finger pointers otherwise.
Originally posted by PublicGadfly
"The real purpose of the nine knights . . . "
-also, don't foeget
""...In 1894 a group of British Army officers, with a budget of just five hundred pounds, set out to try and map the vaults below the ruins of Herod's Temple. ""
The Hiram Key
Bible Archeology magzine, summer (2004) ran a good article on some of the subterranean caverns under Jerusalem.
You (Janus) did raise the question regarding what these original knights did for their first years as I recollect.