Revolution, Civil War, or Restoration. Which will you choose?

Revolution
The overthrow of one government and its replacement with another www.thefreedictionary.com...
2. an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed. dictionary.reference.com...


This is how I see the current situation

1. People who want a revolution.
That is an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed.

This group wants to completely replace our entire government. What then? Which particular flavor of government are we talking about? Connections with official communist party leaders, Nazi's, and socialists, (I am sure there are many more), have recently come to light.

Have ANY of these types of government ever ended well?

One can argue that England and Canada are good examples of how socialism is “not all that bad”, but do you really want to throw off our entire system of government along with the Constitution of the United States?

Speak to someone who formerly lived in a communist country. Someone with real life experience with fascism, communism, and socialism can give you an idea of what life is truly like under those regimes. And the swift and bloody swath they cut through “undesirable” populations, (uncooperative civilians, the elderly, the handicapped, etc), that do not conform to the “collective”.

Do we really want to give up individualism; individual rights? Because that's where this particular road is headed, not the Utopian yellow brick road being touted by some.

Remember the rights guaranteed to us under the 1st Amendment? Free speech? Or the 2nd Amendment: the right to peacefully assemble? Or the perhaps the entire United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence?

Those will be gone....if we choose revolution.

2. Civil War
A war between parties, factions, or inhabitants of different regions within the same nation.

With each post I read re: OWS, I become more concerned.
The level of vitriol is incredible. Not that I am in any way against a good debate, but seriously?
Lets at least try to keep it semi-civil & lay off the personal attacks. Please & thanks!

That being said, think about the different “groups” being pitted/pitting themselves against each other. Democrat Liberals vs. Republican Conservatives, Tea Party racists vs. OWS Hippies, Left vs. Right, capitalists vs. communists, I could go on ad-nauseum.

Do we really want a new dictator, (or our current one with vastly more power), to slip right in while we are distracted by killing one another? Because there are several less-than-desirable regimes that are waiting in the wings to do just that, guaranteed. Waiting with baited breath..... If we choose civil war.


3. Restoration
(1) An act of restoring, (2) An instance of restoring or of being restored: state of being restored, (3) The act of restoring or state of being restored, as to a former or original condition, place, etc, (4) The replacement or giving back of something lost, stolen, etc.

How did these bankers/wall street/TSA/IRS/FED/FDA/ATF/DEA/CIA/FBI/DHS maneuver into their current bloated and corrupt positions of power? We had a lovely group of lawmakers, (AKA The entire federal government, from POTUS, to his CZARS/ cabinets, advisers, National House “Representatives”, Senators, federal and supreme court judges, lobbyists/corporate fronts, etc), who wrote and voted into being millions of new laws to keep us safe from the new bad guy they trotted out each week.

They have knowingly introduced bills and passed laws under the pretense of “representing American Citizens”, that continue to try to shred our constitution and subjugate all Americans, our children, and our childrens' children. By enacting the very laws that allowed these criminals to wage economic and class warfare on us, our federal criminals have committed high treason against ALL citizens of the United States of America. and should be held accountable: not through violence, but rule of law under the restored Constitution of the United States!

As far as I can tell, our country has been stolen, lost, and nearly destroyed. Notice I said “nearly”. The framers of the constitution KNEW that at some point, the federal government and all of its hydra heads would grow too big and oppressive. The 10th Amendment is kind of a re-set button to restore this constitutional republic.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

We need to restore the constitutional Republic of the United States! We need to put the power of the government where it correctly belongs, with the people and the states.
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
We need to take back states rights and Restore our Constitutional Republic!!
Our focus should be on the seat of our national government, Washington DC.

March on Washington DC!!

Our focus should also be on every State Capitol. March on your State Capitol!!

Stand with your fellow American citizens and assert your god-given and constitutionally protected rights!


Our fight is not with wall street It is with our federal government!

By joining together as Americans, we CAN restore this once great nation.

We must stand up for what so many have died upholding or protecting.

Our country was founded by people seeking relief from the tyranny of their governments.

Let us make our forefathers/mothers proud.

Honor them, honor yourself by standing firmly together for what you know is right.

Forget political party lines and class warfare! We are all Americans first, and we must stand together!
Assemble peacefully, follow the golden rule, be inclusive-NOT exclusive, find common ground

Stand together to defend our country and its Constitution, so that we may take back and RESTORE our United States of America!

God Bless America

reply to post by desertdweller1


A "Revolution" is the same thing as a civil war, only the rebels win. For instance, had the South won the Civil War, it would have been a Revolutionary War. Or, if people rise up in a civil war and change the government entirely, it is then a Revolution. Calling for a "Civil War" is, in effect, stating that you wish for a violent revolution that you intend to lose.

reply to post by desertdweller1


I am completely confused by your point.....retaking America is what occupy is about....taking it away from the corporate greed and elite control. Sorry, you are long winded and didn't actually say anything. Not a single thing out of the occupy protests have said bring down the entire gov and replace it with something else. On the contrary, the concept is to bring the original concepts back to America. And for the record, I have talked with many Canadians, who actually applaud their system. Hybrid socialization is not all bad, oh wait, we would stop medical corruption, everyone would receive treatment regardless of your ledger balance, which would stabilize the over all quality of life.....Sorry insurance companies that believe in the philosophy of 'Deny, Deny, and Deny'....Sorry, this system is broke, and the entire point of this is to fix it; Not replace it......Step 1, Fix....Step 2, It.....Step 3, FIX IT.

And this, my friends, is how you argue semantics.
Because, truly, where would we be without labels?
Am I right?

I said this in another thread but it bears repeating here.
There is no right, left, capitalist or communist.
There are Constitutionalists and there are traitors.
And that is all there is.
Choose one.

dont care, I'll take my son and head for the mountains til it settles

ETA: replace one bunch of idiots with another bunch of idiots

reply to post by Asktheanimals


So in other words by your own flawed logic anyone wanting change is a traitor. Until they somehow magically become not a traitor after an amendment to the Constitution is passed. That is some fine simplistic thinking right there. Sorry real life is seldom so simple. The amendment process exists as a means to effect change and to allow us to iron problems that were left unattended. The Constitution is far from perfect even the founders knew that. Even today we are wrestling with a problem they couldn't agree on an answer to corporate greed and it's influence on Congress.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I said this in another thread but it bears repeating here.
There is no right, left, capitalist or communist.
There are Constitutionalists and there are traitors.
And that is all there is.
Choose one.

THESE are the truest words I have heard in a long time.
Its time to push the reset button on our Constitution, clean away all the trash our corrupt government has attached to it.

I choose the Constitution.

We're having a revolution now, Which is already being met with a resistance (the police) but that is the only card that government has to play. They could attempt to call in military, but most of our military are more supportive of citizens over government.

As for civil war, we're on our way. More and more people standing up, opening their eyes and standing up for what they believe in. Almost everyone at OWS has similar, yet different, demands. It's all about letting our voices be heard and getting what the majority needs, not what a few rich a$$holes want.

Originally posted by Shaade

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I said this in another thread but it bears repeating here.
There is no right, left, capitalist or communist.
There are Constitutionalists and there are traitors.
And that is all there is.
Choose one.

THESE are the truest words I have heard in a long time.
Its time to push the reset button on our Constitution, clean away all the trash our corrupt government has attached to it.

I choose the Constitution.

edit on 10/17/2011 by Shaade because: (no reason given)

It's the only choice there is for true Americans. The republic never fall to traitors, bankers or foreign nationals.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear." — Marcus Tullius Cicero delete

We are own worst enemy always have been so it's only natural our government reflects the people of this country the problems with this country is it's people a restoration to the constitution but unless their is a restoration of the American soul it is all for nothing.

Kill the tyranny only to become tyrants is self defeating.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I said this in another thread but it bears repeating here.
There is no right, left, capitalist or communist.
There are Constitutionalists and there are traitors.
And that is all there is.
Choose one.

I took an oath. I take it seriously. I "chose" a long time ago.

reply to post by neo96


That's why we are all here my friend. We're here to make sure the mistakes of the past aren't repeated. We've all been through hell and back from it. The worst thing is the hardest times we're going to have in life haven't even started yet.

We're here to take our country back from over powered people. Too much power into our entire government. There are no more checks and balances. Our whole government is in on the same game, rip off the people for every penny they can get.

They make sure it's difficult to fight back too, when the cost of living is so high many must take on multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Multiple jobs that are increasingly difficult to find because large corporations are getting bailed out with OUR money while the government lets the little guys fall.

I choose apathy. Why? Cause my life isn't half bad the way it is, can't I just keep it that way?

Originally posted by ethancoop
I choose apathy. Why? Cause my life isn't half bad the way it is, can't I just keep it that way?

Sure you can, just keep in mind that if things were left to how they were going, your life would be getting a whole lot worse. Also keep in mind that these people are fighting for you, your family, and your future family.

Screw it, I'll be the one to go ahead and say it.

CIVIL WAR!
CIVIL WAR!
CIVIL WAR!






(but seriously, can't we all just... get along?)

reply to post by Vortiki


See I have said time and time again i believe in the power of the constitution I will not pick up arms against my fellow American and anyone who has ever said they want a restoration of the Constitution knows this.

Civil War,Revolution is the epitomy of denying them the same rights as we all are given here.

reply to post by Vortiki

We're having a revolution now, Which is already being met with a resistance (the police) but that is the only card that government has to play. They could attempt to call in military, but most of our military are more supportive of citizens over government.

This... is true - to a degree.

The problem is that the "1%" (and the 49+% that support their right to be the 1%) are also citizens.

As for civil war, we're on our way. More and more people standing up, opening their eyes and standing up for what they believe in. Almost everyone at OWS has similar, yet different, demands. It's all about letting our voices be heard and getting what the majority needs, not what a few rich a$$holes want.

OWS is designed to be a way for various groups to gain influence and power. That is all. The people involved are justifiably upset over things that have happened - but most are too stupid or simply don't care enough to truly understand the root causes of the problems.

None of these people have a real solution - and that is the inherent design of the OWS movement that makes it such an interesting tool.

You have thousands of people wandering around the streets who is not going to really amount to anything by protesting (let's be honest - OWS is something of a side-show attraction - no one is going to indulge fools). They also have no plan for how they are going to go about changing things.

I have a plan - it won't work for the OWS movement, because it requires these people to actually understand the problem and work to correct a number of inherently fatal flaws and concepts in the way our government has been allowed to behave these past 100 years or more - but I have a plan.

So do a few other groups - more appealing to a bunch of angry people used to instant gratification: violence.

Once that happens (and it will) - you no longer represent the type of society I wish to live within and be a part of. Those of you who can be peacefully exiled will be. The rest will be exterminated.

"We'll fight back Aim."

Not hard enough. I'm fairly confident in my ability (and the abilities of those like me) to kill several people before being killed, myself. Those rates of attrition are more than acceptable and suppression of a violent rebellion is a mathematical certainty.

Now - I don't have much confidence in the national government to do much to correct its current course. In which case - I fully expect states to secede from the union in the interest of creating or subscribing to a different monetary standard and having more control over tax rates and offers to industry.

That is a completely different issue from a bunch of college students trying to "make a difference" by arbitrarily deciding who is rich and deciding to run into the houses of other people and seize property.

That sort of behavior will not be tolerated and will be put down, and put down hard. The response that will come to that is nothing as nice as riot police.

History has shown us these type of protests lead the way for a manipulative charismatic leader to take power. Stalin Hitler and friends. It has always been from the frying pan into the fire. Something has to be done, but are you willing to take the bitter red pill to cure the disease? The disease is BOTH government corruption and general laziness of people who are unwilling to do anything on their own. It's "they got their piece of the pie, WHERE IS MINE?" That's the nuts and bolts of the protesters message. How about this, rather than sucking the government's big throbbing C%%K why not get together with a few friends and start your own business?

As for the corruption, it will take care of itself soon enough, especially if people instead of demanding "fairness" nut up, create their own jobs, open their windows, and tell the manipulative cronies that they are mad as hell at them and WE ARE not going to take it anymore, GIVE ME JUSTICE AND LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH!

reply to post by Aim64C


Your argument is very valid. I also appreciate the manner in which you presented it. However I cannot help but feel as if these people are a little more intelligent than most people give them credit for. I think in the beginning there was a sense of what people were there for.

I also believe that the purpose of this has evolved. At first maybe it was just to fight back against banks foreclosing on houses without the proper mortgage, tax breaks for the rich, ect. It's now about standing up for yourself.

It's about standing up against the government that has been making life hard on most of us. We have presidents that make promises only to do the opposite once elected. We have a judicial branch that wrongfully convicts people to receive payment kickbacks. We have police that falsify information to arrest innocent people, just to meet quota. We have TSA invading our privacy at every turn, along with homeland security reading through every personal email and text message anyone sends.

This is what the OWS movement has evolved into:

Americans taking a stand against all these things and more. It's a personal movement for everyone in the sense that everyone wants something that has a personal effect on them. At the same time it is a national movement, because we are all tired of the same old song and dance and we're ready to give something new a shot of working.

what it comes down to is we want a new system and the old system doesn't want to relinquish their money and power.