Can 'Occupy' protests last without leaders?

Can 'Occupy' protests last without leaders?

news.yahoo.com

The bigger hurdle for the Occupy movement may not be the lack of strong leaders but the large philosophical differences between the small group of demonstrators and the much larger — but less radical — group of outsiders who have been supportive of the protests from afar, Gitlin said.

The young people at Zuccotti Park "really think they are headed for no future. No jobs. Ice caps are melting. Misery in the offing ... You want a new civilization," Gitlin said.

"But most of the people who support you ... they don't want a new civilization. They want to be middle class."

(visit the link for the full news article)

I feel that the above quote from the article is why this movement will fail. People need leaders, a cohesive message.

Many, if not most of us have felt the pain with this economy. Many are wanting to support this movement but are fearful of losing what little they have.

Eventually they will have to take a path and designate leaders. From there, it can go either way.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by TDawgRex


Start with reading Daniel Quinn's Ishmael series to understand whether humans /need/ leaders or not.

Add in Peter Drucker's Management, and then see the Money as Debt series on Youtube, also.

Leaders are easily corrupted.
Hence why having none is paramount to their success.
Decisions can be made on consensus, and i think their message is more than cohesive enough

reply to post by TDawgRex


Do you think there is a chance that, rather than admit to specific proposals and leaders which might repel most Americans, OWS might go to a London riot type of demonstration? No leaders needed, everybody with a grievance gets involved, and the system is shakened and weakend.

It will last because of leaders, namely democrat leaders. Much the same was the tea party lasts because of the Republican party. Things like this, ideally would be flashes that spark significant and lasting change, i.e the American Revolution. However, those in power and political office, can get in on something like this, and use it. They milk it for as long as they have an emotional appeal. Democrats are still milking the race card decades after civil rights changed the nation.

The left needed something like the Tea Party, OSW was just the ticket.

reply to post by TDawgRex

Actually most of us just want to be left alone! OWS has leaders. Very real ones. It is validated in the main stream media. It is Obama. he has made it clear he is their leader and is in control of them.
O yea...they do have a leader..manipulator and friend. Potus.

You know I speak the truth.
DH

reply to post by Wolf321


Wait, you really are going to turn OWS into "Democrat," "Republican," or even "Tea Party?"

Oy. Read moar.

reply to post by charles1952


To be truthful, I'm all about a leader who really doesn't want to be a leader. He/She just has the solutions, and the people recognize it. And he accepts the harsh reality and act upon it.

Decisions involving millions of people are always hard.

Humans have a naturally hierarchically social order so leaders will emerge naturally. There probably are leaders on the ground they just aren't visible to you. Those who organize protesters are leaders.

And while the Democrats may be attempting to lead the protest it's really not happening.

reply to post by cryptographrix


Develop better reading comprehension.

I didn't say it was a Democrat, Republican or Tea Party thing, I said it will become such a thing for the Democratic Left.

reply to post by DavidsHope


While I see that the various Parties try to spin this. There have been instances were the politicians are shouted down. Just like the town hall meetings.

The DNC is betting BIG bucks on trying to spin this as a left wing Tea Party. I hope they fail miserably.

The Tea Party was fractured by the Koch bros. And I see the same thing happening to OWS. Next year this time, chances are that we will be seeing, "What happened to the OWS movement?"

Further division. And winter is coming on.

reply to post by charles1952


I hope it does not take that route.

But there are agitators in the crowd with agendas.

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by cryptographrix

 

Develop better reading comprehension.

I didn't say it was a Democrat, Republican or Tea Party thing, I said it will become such a thing for the Democratic Left.

Originally posted by Wolf321: It will last because of leaders, namely democrat leaders....

You know, many of the "Democratic Left" are calling it yet-another-"Republican Right" stunt (especially since they grabbed onto the "Tea Party" BS 3 years ago)

I think you're both flippin morons. Hopefully a good amount of the protestors around the world realize that argument (Right v. Left) is loaded, too.

Hence why I'm telling you to "Read moar."

Complicity between all concerned parties, left - right - center, that's a very large part of the underlying social problem.

And weren't both parties accusing each other, last time, of Tea Party BS?

Sounds like they're both just avoiding the same issues - not doing anything. They're all deer in headlights.

yes it can and has for almost a month now... and still growing evryday with no "
leader" but i do think evently a leader will emerg

to the other guy with the gorge washington avatar

the protesters have made it clear that thay do not care if it left or right up or down black or white
The coruption is problem
this is so much biger then dem Vs. rep
this is global son

reply to post by TDawgRex


Yes, it can. In fact odds are it will last longer without designated leaders. it has no need to constrain itself to a single message, either.

The Civil rights Movement had no "leaders" - King and Malcom were highly respected spokesmen, but they obviously disagreed with each other, and the movement continued with or without them. And speaking of that disagreement, the Civil rights Movement had no single "core message" either - rather it was a cloud of messages, concerns, and demands.

Asking for leaders is asking for men who can be bought off. Asking for a single message is asking for something that cna be shouted down and shut up.

Originally posted by cryptographrix
And weren't both parties accusing each other, last time, of Tea Party BS?

Sounds like they're both just avoiding the same issues - not doing anything. They're all deer in headlights.

Exactly my point. No party wanted to get on the Tea Party bandwagon until they figured out how to use it. The republicans knew they could use it to sweep the Congress.

OWS is more liberal a group, like the Tea Party was obviously more right. The Dems are going to set this up for their use with the 2012 elections. You can bank on it.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I'm sure that we can agree on the message that government and corporations need to be seperated from each other.

But after that....

reply to post by TDawgRex


The entire 'occupy' movement seems too diffuse to do anything but annoy people with 'occupying' spaces. Everyone seems to have a different goal and they seem to be unclear. One interviewee believes he should have a free college education. Others want something to happen to the bankers and the politicians who support them. Then, there is everything in between.
The politicians see that the public is unhappy with the bailout of the bankers while they suffer. What should they do?
Probably play the anti-trust card and make sure that the banks are small enough to fail. Banks should be redivided so that commercial and investment banks are two distinct companies with no financial links. Derivative trading should be relegated to casinos and separate derivative trading companies that are also small enough to fail. Margin buying should be eliminated.
Until there is a organized group that proposes solutions, occupy will go no where and degenerate into general griping.

There are many models of Governance of Populations/Countries - many are dismissed out of hand but without agreed aims the arrow will fall by the wayside.

Whatever it is that OWS hopes to achieve needs to be agreed upon in general (at this stage) and Spokesmen/women elected quickly in order to maintain the momentum.

Just hearing all the videos can give you an idea of what most people want but these ambitions need to be put into words both written and verbal - the banners aren't enough.

Perhaps a natural leader will emerge - even one that can be replaced easily at a later stage but someone has to speak up and represent the needs of the whole OWS movement. If no one speaks up for the majority all we have then is dis organised anarchy that leads to burn out.

Get Organised!!!

The majority means agreed aims - the means by which we achieve those aims will always differ but until the aims are agreed by all the Car is without a Driver - the route can be agreed later but surviving the journey is what counts right now.