Portuguese military says "if people riot, it will side with them, not the government"!!!

Originally posted by silvercrow

Originally posted by AngelsDecay

Well...i really start to believe on the ATS threads about Different Dimensions, Time Travellers and Other Worlds...

I'm happy for you, but do you have anything of value to say?

Well, if all the values are with you,and not with me, i apologize and just leave it now...i thought this place was to share opinions and to debate ideas. Sorry once again

CAPTAIN IRAQ...... a dozen stars for you, I concur with you, my being a VET, I know that your statement is ACURATE.............!!!!!!

hold up wait! portugal has a military? we can call it that? lol
they are worthless, not even usefull to put out forest fires..

they did start the last revolution, but look how well that turned out last time.
just an oportunity for the globalists to seize power wich lead us to this.

thankfully im not waiting on them, or anyone else for that matter
smallrevolutions day by day make the difference in the long run


im not expecting any uprisings, coups or revolutions around these parts anytime soon

we as a people talk alot of justice and equality, but no one goes out of their way to make it happen

we have been on crisis long before it became global

so much we became used to it and it became part of our lifestyle

dont expect us to start nothing world



we have endured decades of the old bought and paid two party system, trust me, to 99% of the portuguese population, a 1984 styled NWO would be welcome.

Its nice to see some organisation siding with the people,when those portuguese soldiers are out of uniform they are the same as the rest of us,shame the police department can do that with the rest of the world,this worldwide movement for change can only progress if it recieves support!

Originally posted by PunchingBag80
It's good to know that some military powers still know their purpose.
It's unfortunate that the U.S. military (at least most of it) don't remember their purpose.
I would side with my military if they would side with me first.

Given our military's documented history over the last decade+, I'd like to see them side with humanity before supporting them for anything.

What I see now are troops throwing puppies off a cliff. I see troops leaving their post to rape a child and kill her parents and little sister. I see documented cases of torture. I see a US congressman talking about video the pentagon owns showing rape and murder. I see an entire region of the world polluted by DU poison. I see totally senseless illegal, aggressive war and occupations. Good is the new bad, black is the new white, up is the new down.

This is not my government. This is not my military.

Originally posted by Immune
Finally some people in power with testicular fortitude i hope the police departments feel the same way, i could only hope something like this happens here in the US.

NYPD: to protect and serve the public oops forgot that silly motto on the car door did they?

Ummm it doesn't say "the public", does it?

anyway, to your main question, I have heard Benjamin Fulford warning elites about this same kind of attitude with the American military. They just aren't talking about it. And they happen to be engaged in a war.

in my wildest nightmare, American troops would have to hurry home to stop the UN, and their legions of troops already on this soil, from enforcing martial law on American streets. Imagine that, the American Military coming home to win their country back from powermad corporate shills.

reply to post by rainychica


Well, in the case, the people who are rioting are the government. The military will defend those who support it. The same way it should be in the U.S.

reply to post by rainychica


good find op! a little spark of hope for people all around the world who have thought about this very subject.

The French Revolutionaries won the war against the French Crown when the Palace guards and military opened the gate to them.

I look at the Police in these American Cities beating and macing the protesters and it boggles the mind.

The OWS folks are marching in the street to protect these same policemen's right to collectively bargain, to protect their pensions from Wall Street gambling, to protect their jobs; and the police are beating and harassing them?

Excuse me? I know some cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, but it doesn't take a genius to know that it was Wall Streeters who paid Scott Walker and the other "anti-public employees" Governors way into office.
It doesn't take a genius to know that it was Wall Streeters gambling that stole millions in pensions from public coffers.
It doesn't take a genius to know that it was Wall Streeters credit default swaps fraud that is causing the economic collapse of not just the US- but the World.

Cops are violating their oaths by standing up to protect these people who by all rights should be in jail.

reply to post by CaptainIraq


You can excuse your evils all you like. You have made me have even more contempt for the military. You are shifting the blame when you know full well you are in the wrong. The people DO NOT will what you do on their behalf, they are tricked. And as you have said the people dont even know as much as the military do about how things work, so stop making excuses. The individual soldiers are individually responsible for following orders they know full well are wrong, regardless of whether the people will it or not. To not refuse an order you know is wrong even if the people want it is COWARDICE.

Its nice to see that (if this is true) the military are fighting for its people, not its goverment.

Truly wonderful to see this in the world instead of being suppressed by tyranny Thanks OP

Originally posted by AngelsDecay

Well, if all the values are with you,and not with me, i apologize and just leave it now...i thought this place was to share opinions and to debate ideas. Sorry once again

Really? You basically tried to ridicule my opinion without saying why you disagree and without adding anything to the discussion. But I will contribute.

Please don't take this "ad hominem", I am merely using your contribution to this thread to discuss what I think is a pattern of bad reasoning among many Portuguese.

So, your father was an officer. That explains a lot. I am not saying your father was corrupt or incompetent, nor am I saying he is wise. I don't know him.

Also, please turn off the TV and think for a moment. Yes, we have 3 cars, but they are old 1000/1500 EUR cars for spare parts. No worker in this country has three 30.000 EURO cars, or even 500k houses. A lot of people are imprisoned by debt, they were told lies by banksters and politicians. Remember we have always lived in some kind of "crisis" and all of us in the Western World live above our means, because it's meant to be that way. It's not just us, the bad lazy uneducated Portuguese. Did you stop to think why we are not the only ones protesting and rioting?

The big deficit, recession and austerity was created by our corrupt Government expenses in things we had no say in, like the TGV and BPN bailout fraud. We are only to blame for letting it happen. And when I say "we" I mean those who vote without conscience in the same two parties and carry on like nothing wrong ever happened.

You like so many of us, are criticizing the objectivity of protesting. Protests are meant to show discontent and call to others to open their eyes and refuse to be handled like commodities. If you don't want to join the people at least contribute in some other way, but don't try to discredit those who are willing to make a better country without personal gain - yeah, a few are opportunists, it's only human. We must look into ourselves and find something other than self-blame as a reason to quit ourselves and our fellow citizens.

No one is trying to overthrow the government. People are demanding that corrupt politicians are judged and that we are entitled to audit the debt they are forcing us to pay without presenting reason or proof. We are demanding equal treatment in Justice. We are questioning authority and demanding voice in a lot of things they don't even ask us. Did you know that the "troika" entered in Portugal without voting in Parliament? Is this ok for you? Is this democratic?

Why no cuts in salaries and pensions of current and retired politicians - some at the age of 42, when the average worker is only allowed to retire at 67 ? Why are we forced to pay something we aren't even allowed to understand? Why are we paying more and more for Health and Education and food? How long do you think it will take for them to tax air? Ask the Greeks how they are doing. Do they drive around in their 3 cars being all lazy and irresponsible?

reply to post by silvercrow


i agree, i guess diferent folk percieve things diferently

nor i or my close family own a car, not even the house, i was brought up in a family environment where less than minimum wage had to do.
thats why i dont sit around complaining, nor i go out to protest the system.

my family hasnt got much, but we have no debts aswell.

thats how i fight the system, by working and revolutionizing my own life, surviving against all odds.

i know how to live with less, more austerity is not bothering me.

my life can only get better, its not ballancing in the credit line.

its true that many were taught to live above their means, it was the example given to them
those people may need a revolution.

me i rather make my own

i never needed the state or the system
im not expecting nothing from those parties
and i surelly wont miss them when they are gone


as for my people, we may not all agree on where we should be heading
but we all can agree that where we are now, its not it and its not working

thats whats at stake now

reply to post by silvercrow


Well said , glad someone lives in the same Portugal that i do !!!!

star for you sir.

snoopyuk

reply to post by Firefly_


Well I'll say first off that I have never been given an unlawful order, so i have no personal experience in having to deal with that. But i can tell you that no military member I know would follow a direct order to kill civilians, though there are rotten apples as there are in every group of people. In that case, both parties are equally responsible. The case of being given an order with false information though (think the invasion of Iraq and WMDs), then the responsibility falls on the ones giving the orders.

When you disagree with what the military is doing as a whole, you need to look to the top for the source of the problem. I'll use the example of hiring a security guard to defend your life or property or what have you. The gun he uses is the military, and he represents the elected officials who control its use. You choose who to hire to accomplish this task just as we the people elect who we want to protect us. Would you choose a criminal to protect you? More realistically, why would you not perform a background check on the guard you are looking to hire? Is the relatively minimal cost of doing the check not worth the potential consequences of giving the responsibility of protecting you to a criminal?


The main problem with your argument is this: you accuse me of shifting the blame, and yet you try to shift it on to me. You're using your own argument against yourself. If you refer to my previous post, I stated that the blame is ultimately shared among us. It is thoes mortal enemies of mankind, complacency and ignorance, that have lead us to where we are now. I will admit that i have been guilty of these, as you have most likely, just as we all have.

We can't be perfect, but we should at least have the integrity to recognize and correct our mistakes.

as a Portuguese citizen, I can only rejoice with this news. If the SHTF at least we can count on the military to not blindly follow the orders of TPTB, and actually join the good fight. we´re becoming really strapped here, a lot of demonstrations erupting and its only the beginning. new austerity measures anounced this week will sink even further our country, and a lot of people are fed up of being robbed of their money and rights. prepare for greece like riots, we are on the brink...

Originally posted by silvercrow

Originally posted by AngelsDecay

Well, if all the values are with you,and not with me, i apologize and just leave it now...i thought this place was to share opinions and to debate ideas. Sorry once again

Really? You basically tried to ridicule my opinion without saying why you disagree and without adding anything to the discussion. But I will contribute.

Please don't take this "ad hominem", I am merely using your contribution to this thread to discuss what I think is a pattern of bad reasoning among many Portuguese.

So, your father was an officer. That explains a lot. I am not saying your father was corrupt or incompetent, nor am I saying he is wise. I don't know him.

Also, please turn off the TV and think for a moment. Yes, we have 3 cars, but they are old 1000/1500 EUR cars for spare parts. No worker in this country has three 30.000 EURO cars, or even 500k houses. A lot of people are imprisoned by debt, they were told lies by banksters and politicians. Remember we have always lived in some kind of "crisis" and all of us in the Western World live above our means, because it's meant to be that way. It's not just us, the bad lazy uneducated Portuguese. Did you stop to think why we are not the only ones protesting and rioting?

The big deficit, recession and austerity was created by our corrupt Government expenses in things we had no say in, like the TGV and BPN bailout fraud. We are only to blame for letting it happen. And when I say "we" I mean those who vote without conscience in the same two parties and carry on like nothing wrong ever happened.

You like so many of us, are criticizing the objectivity of protesting. Protests are meant to show discontent and call to others to open their eyes and refuse to be handled like commodities. If you don't want to join the people at least contribute in some other way, but don't try to discredit those who are willing to make a better country without personal gain - yeah, a few are opportunists, it's only human. We must look into ourselves and find something other than self-blame as a reason to quit ourselves and our fellow citizens.

No one is trying to overthrow the government. People are demanding that corrupt politicians are judged and that we are entitled to audit the debt they are forcing us to pay without presenting reason or proof. We are demanding equal treatment in Justice. We are questioning authority and demanding voice in a lot of things they don't even ask us. Did you know that the "troika" entered in Portugal without voting in Parliament? Is this ok for you? Is this democratic?

Why no cuts in salaries and pensions of current and retired politicians - some at the age of 42, when the average worker is only allowed to retire at 67 ? Why are we forced to pay something we aren't even allowed to understand? Why are we paying more and more for Health and Education and food? How long do you think it will take for them to tax air? Ask the Greeks how they are doing. Do they drive around in their 3 cars being all lazy and irresponsible?

Very well said my friend, corrupt polititians, bankers and big corporate CEO's have been sucking our country dry and now that they have almost nothing left to suck, they still want the last few drops that keep us up and walking! I don't know if the military will join the people if things get tough with protests and riots, but i think # will definately hit the fan during the next months! We are a very calm population, but the tension is mounting and when the majority of people will have a hard time paying their rents and bringing food home, then the rage will take the streets, thats inevitable! We all are guilty of letting things reach this point, we elected the same politians for decades, always complaining about them, but then, when the time came to vote again, we still believed in their same lies and voted for them again, and again... and they kept ruining the nation, year after year, untill it was no longer possible to hide the hole! I can say i never voted for these moneysuckers, but when only 40% of the population go out to vote in such important times as these, it shows how much people care... and so we´re back to complaining again, but now, we also have to pay, and a lot more then usual... hard times are coming, i have a wife and a son and i´m worrying more and more... and i fear that what is happening here, and what is happening in Greece, may spread all across Europe, and across the World... Truth is, our society is held hostage by the financial system, this is where Capitalism got us, now we have to set ourselves free from this web of $... and it won´t be easy by any means!!!

reply to post by rainychica


NOT SO FAST! while you guys are feeding on this fantasy, let me enlighten you on the subject. first of all I am a portuguese civil servant who knows quite what he is talking about. secondly this military revolt crap is taken out of context, it was the spokesman for National Association of Sergeants, who was speaking on his behalf and probably many of his colleagues, disgrutling over cuts to vacation and christmas subsidies that all of us civil servants are getting next year (we are not happy, but we accept). His remarks were criticized in most of the commentary and are in no way an official position of the military, who are completely obedient to the democratically elected government.

In 1974, the portuguese military overthrew the dictatorship in a peaceful, non-violent revolution. since then, there has never been any riots nor revolts against the democratic governments. the portuguese are a traditionally very peaceful and understanding pelople and we have no anarchists nor violent nor terrorist groups. the people elected this government with a majority knowing, as promissed in the electoral campaign, there would be a lot of sacrifices in order to put our finances in order due to the overspending of the previous governments.

there will be strikes organized by the left parties, but i guarantee you THERE WILL BE NO RIOTS NOR REVOLUTION, NOR MILITARY REVOLTS! for you don't know the way of the portuguese people. I regret what's happening in Greece, but Portugal's situation is not as bad, only time will tell, but STOP THIS MADDNESS!!

reply to post by AnotherYOU


CONCORDO!! our people ar just too peacefull and passive!

reply to post by mishigas


"Portugal, be ready to live under a military regime?" I live in Portugal and that is a totally ridiculous and ignorant comment! stop this maddness, this whole thread was based on the comment, which was taken out of context, of a sergents' association spokesman, speaking on his behalf. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MILITARY!