I had been deceived - My visit to an OWS protest

Wow, thank you for taking the time to see and decide for yourself! I've been on ATS a long time, and my respect for you just tripled, at least.

reply to post by Misoir


Of course everyone knows that the mainstream media is only going to show us the few EXTREAM protesters.... or, as i like to call them, "Illuminati Plants".
We all remember what happened in Toronto in the summer of 2010? Recall the G20 protests? With just a handful of Black Bloc protesters, the police were allowed to detain THOUSANDS of people. I expect this will happen again. Where? I'm not sure. But, it will. When? Again, I'm not sure. But, it will.
Once there are riots, and the police are forced to arrest hundreds, thousand, more, en masse, then the unsuspecting sheep will turn on the these protesters even more. Although, it's not like the Illuminati controlled media isn't doing a good enough job on that, already.

Originally posted by AlSwearengen
What better way to keep people confused and out of focus than to continue with a two party system of ever bickering and blaming each other, instead of being accountable and responsible to the people you work for.

That's the name of their game. Keep the sheople herded but divided by keeping them squabbling with eachother over domestic issues all while these internationalist banksters continue to rape this Country and planet. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by diogenesthe99


In response to the Fed allegations...

How do we know who owns the Fed? Also, how do we know it's privatized nature isn't beneficial to the system and its stability (perhaps privatized to keep it independent of political manipulations)?

I've read hypothetical statements over the years that the Fed is probably owned by the Queen of England, the Rockerfellers, Chase, Queen of Netherlands, and Rothchilds... but these seem very much like "easy" names to throw out there and see if one sticks. So far, I have not seen any hard evidence (though speculation makes great science fiction and entertaining gossip). Hearsay claims do not reason make. If you know of any hard evidence, I'd be happy to read, learn, and evaluate.

On the very slight chance that such high-profile and incredibly powerful names are owners of the Fed, then is that necessarily a bad thing? Just like a President's cabinet is made up of the best men and women for each field of expertise, there is a strong argument that having the world's richest and most powerful managing the stability of USA currency would be a beneficial thing.

Of course, the fallen nature of mankind makes any utopic/beneficial/perfect setup pretty much impossible. But perhaps, it's the best we can get -- or was the best we could get in the 1920s. Basically, without proof that the owners are specific people who have done specific evil-doings (beyond a slight degree of self-interest), I have to assume the power structure is overall beneficial.

I'm sure quite a few people on ATS will have great feedback.

reply to post by The Old American


John D. Rockefeller deserves vilification. He only became a philanthropist in order to whitewash his sometimes questionable business acquisitions. It was a PR stunt. Then, because he was a genius, he quickly figured out that his philanthropy could actually increase his overall wealth (and that of his heirs) by influencing the masses.

We have John D. Rockefeller's General Board of Education to thank for dumbing down the sheeple with a communist style education system. By sheer donation dollars (famously offered to match funds so that he had the ideological influence twice what he was paying for), he was able to transform a system of education that was built on the classics and studies in logic and critical thinking to one that is literally based on "fitting in" and "accepting one's lot in life" for the good of the collective whole. Rockefeller saw that creating sheeple would make his estate and heirs richer and more powerful; for that, he deserves vilification.

I don't know enough about Carnegie to throw any dirt. :-D

Greed in itself can be a very great thing. Ayn Rand was so incredibly gifted in portraying all the benefits of self-interest, selfishness, and greediness. Greed is what makes society grow in leaps in bounds... essentially, greed is the force behind evolution (physical, mental, spiritual, and fiscal).

Individuals can be beautifully greedy without being unethical or corrupt.

reply to post by twoandthree


If your definition of greed is akin to the one that Rand shines her considerable spotlight on, that of the innate desire of each of us to strive for the beauty of perfection in form and system. Agreed.

But if you mean that greed that is displayed in soulless corporate plundering of our human and environmental rights, then I disagree. Everything in moderation, with unerring self discipline leads to a middle path, where greed is honed to a cutting edge and innovation abounds.

reply to post by twoandthree


I beg to differ with you.

Beautiful and greedy do not balance. There is absolutely nothing beautiful about greed. Take a look at the starving Children in some of the African countries and compare the state of their physical body to the physical bodies of their government officials.

And last time I looked - being unethical and corrupt were particularly ugly traits for anyone.

Much Peace...

IMO there won't be any measurable effect on the "greedy" corporations or Wall Street unless they stop getting what they want from the public. As a matter of fact, the U.S. Stock Market finished the week at the highest level of 2011. Withdraw money from the banks and stop buying anything that you absolutely do not need. And the items that you must have, purchase as little as possible. Protesting, violence, etc.., will have little effect if the powers that be keep raking in cash from the people. In today's business environment, money is KING.
-cwm

While I truly commend my fellow Americans for flexing their rights, I believe that the mantra we should be singing in the streets is: "Your money is your vote!"

Do your homework, find out who does what with your money.

Stop giving your money to companies who pollute, degrade and corrupt.

Insist that companies clean up their own messes, stop taking advantage of the workforce, and stay out of politics.

Boycotts work.

I applaud the OP's decision to find out first hand what this really is. I am torn between hating how my 401k money has been manipulated and absorbed by a greedy minority of wealthy insiders .vs. the history of this country being able to pull it's ass out of the fire when things seemed so dismal...

I always counted on 'those other people' as a stopgap in participating in any protest because it seemed that they already had it under control, whatever that meant... But now, I need to know who to trust, if any...

So I will go as well and try to make my own personal decision as to which side I support here.

It is that ambiguous.

I still do not see a solidarity in theme for this protest, but perhaps it is one of those situations where you just have to be there.. sorta like Woodstock, which was not a protest, but it's persona changed our world. To understand Woodstock, you just had to be there.

I want to talk to people that feel so much about this movement that they had to be there as well. I feel that this is the only way to decide what to do in the future... I cannot rely on media, because media is controlled by the PTB, as we know.

So, I guess in closing this post... To have a legitimate opinion here, you just gotta go.

Originally posted by nuttin4U
How exactly do people think things are gonna change? If they ended the Federal Reserve...do they have another system to replace it?

Aye. It's been hanging around for a very long time - as long as the US has. It's called "The United States Treasury". According to the Constitution, it is supposed to do what the private banking concern called the "Federal Reserve" is actually doing.

As if anyone in DC actually cares what the constitution says...

Dear Misoir,
You did what I've been suggesting naysayers do for awhile now, and it changed your mind with FACTS and reality.

THANK YOU!

United we deny ignorance!

Originally posted by projectvxn
I'm reading through the OWS organizer e-mails right now.

People quoting Che and telling others not to denounce any violence or property damage that may occur. People advocating lying to the media or simply being obtuse. They were setting up training courses for civil disobedience.

If anything this whole movement looks completely engineered from the top.

And everyone is eating it up like the good little sheep they are.

No go ahead and protest Wall St.

If you wanted Glass Steagall passed you would protest Washington.

But go ahead, protest Wall St.

If you wanted debt based derivatives banned you should be protesting Washington.

But go ahead and protest Wall St.

If you wanted to end the wars you should be protesting Washington.

But go ahead and protest Wall St.

If you wanted a fair tax structure representative of everyone you would be advocating a flat tax and you would have to do that in Washington.

The source of class warfare in this country isn't Wall St. It isn't capitalism. It isn't money. And it isn't even the banks. Its WASHINGTON.

Here is the link to the OWS e-mails. I haven't read them all yet. But I've read enough of them.

owsmail.dc406.com...

This whole protest stinks of leftist ideology and I will have nothing to do with it.

edit on 15-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

HERE COMES CAPTAIN PROPAGANDA TO LIE ABOUT THE MOVEMENT AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!!

Where the hell do you get off commenting on something you REFUSE to actually understand? You cherry-pick and cherry-pick and cherry-pick and exaggerate after I repeatedly tell you not to.... you'd think you'd have gotten the point by now? Guess not.

Why don't you do as Misoir did and VISIT your local occupation, talk HONESTLY to the people, have a DIALOGUE about the issues and keep your mind open to change for once.

Originally posted by shogu666

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Redistribution of wealth and collectivism is against my notions of freedom. And when they have far left groups who advocate for these things bankrolling them..Well...

There you go.

edit on 16-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Maybe you should move your self to jungle start living alone , you know hunt for food build shelter ,
becuase right your life as you know it depends of 100% of other people.

There's an enormous difference between the dependencies and associations people form in a free society of their own accord and being forced by the letter of law to give someone who doesn't work my money.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


You don't tell me what to believe and how to think.

Misoir has his opinion I have mine.

After this, and the other post you made telling me to shut up, it seems you have a real problem with others expressing how they see things.

You're going to be in for a hell of a disappointment when I don't comport to your capricious and childish outbursts demanding that I think exactly like you .

The effort by certain posters to create the left right paradigm is palpable to me in many of the threads about OWS.
There must be many elitist shills posing as ordinary members, but obviously they have the agenda to protect their masters. From my experience whenever you see this effort to impose a left right dynamic on an issue you know you are dealing with trained shills that are possibly even part of the cointelpro/DIA/NSA organizations.

If you look at the live video feeds of many of these protests there is a VERY diverse group of people from all walks of life and EVERY part of the traditional political spectrum, WHICH HAS THE ELITE POWERS ABSOLUTELY TREMBLING BECAUSE THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO CO OPT THE MOVEMENT AS A WHOLE. They fear this and it looks like they will not have success in manipulating the protesters in a meaningful way.

I constantly see protests of every stripe saying they DO NOT WANT ORGANIZED LEADERSHIP as it is a DANGER to the pure grass roots nature of what they are doing. I agree, keep this leaderless, and also prevent any monied interests from donating.

The only question now is how long until the protesters realize that without force (2nd Amendment) how will their wishes to remove the elite feudal lords from power be realized. The founding father knew that tyranny would rear its ugly head in the future and specifically included this right to allow the people to remove a tyrannical gov't. It is clear that we have moved far beyond the threshold of what could be considered a tripping point to use that right, as we the people have no meaningful ability to make redress of grievances.

Some people are communist, some people aren't. Most are pissed off at the banks and the Federal Reserve, some aren't. There are many voices standing together as one. We are the 99%. It's our voice together that matters. Protest corruption, separate corporation and government, take the power from the few and give it back to the many.



It's becoming a global affair :-)

reply to post by Misoir


any 9/11 truth there?

reply to post by jimnuggits


Greed is a sin.

Greed may not be wrong to an extent in your books, but there is a force out there which has zero tolerance.

Dont forget that.