Speedy neutrino mystery likely solved, relativity safe after all.

Seems that the drama of the Neutrino has been solved, which means that reletivity is still the top dog theory in physics. Kind of a shame really I thought we were entering a new age of physics studies.

Those weird faster-than-light neutrinos that CERN thought they saw last month may have just gotten slowed down to a speed that'll keep them from completely destroying physics as we know it. In an ironic twist, the very theory that these neutrinos would have disproved may explain exactly what happened.

Back in September, physicists ran an experiment where they sent bunches of neutrinos from Switzerland to Italy and measured how long the particles took to make the trip. Over 15,000 experiments, the neutrinos consistently arrived about 60 nanoseconds early, which means 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Einstein's special theory of relativity says this should be impossible: nothing can travel faster than light.

dvice.com...

ALS

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


They seriously forgot to account for relatively? I find it hard to believe these people built something as complex as the LHC.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


So, basically, what happened was they were using distance measurements based in the Earth's reference frame, while using time measurements based in a GPS satellite's reference frame. From the Earth's perspective, the two locations (in Switzerland and Italy) were stationary, but, from the perspective of the GPS satellite timing the experiment, those locations were moving.

This disparity is what caused the anomalous result.

Researchers at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands went and crunched the numbers on how much relativity should have effected the experiment, and found that the correct compensation should be about 32 additional nanoseconds on each end, which neatly takes care of the 60 nanosecond speed boost that the neutrinos originally seemed to have. This all has to be peer-reviewed and confirmed, of course, but at least for now, it seems like the theory of relativity is not only safe, but confirmed once again.

I imagine they failed to take the GPS timing into account because they were focused on their Earth-bound experiment. Sometimes, the simplest solutions are the easiest to overlook.

Oh well
I'm sure we were all expecting something more to come of this...
But anyway , It is a good example of how science works, it is a constant search.
I'm sure that shortly, someone will put forth the idea of a massive cover-up by the lizard-people to keep us ignorant of the super-neutrino-warp-engine

Thanks for the update man!

This reminds me of NASA's metric conversion issue. Makes me feel strangely good knowing that dumb mistakes happen to everyone. I was kinda hoping to see a new dawn in physics though. Got to see the Berlin Wall fall, guess I can't really expect to see the fabric of space and time collapse too, than again, there's always next week...

reply to post by drakus


You are completely right!! This is just a false flag ploy by TPTB, the reptilians, and the greys to keep us from knowing how the world really works!!! They want us sheeple to be earthbound forever and to never imagine and look to the stars for hope for a new future!! The day is coming people!! Wake up and throw off the chains of the oppressors!!! The rEvolution is here!!!!

That what you wanted to see LOL

I'm still not convinced that the speed of light is the "fastest" anything in the Universe can travel. Although I have read and heard that anything that achieves light speed or faster becomes infinite. Regardless, I still have hope we will unravel some of the mysteries in the Universe.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


They say the key to time travel is breaking the speed of light. Perhaps CERN have finally done it. Titor was right, the civil war is upon us!

No matter if light is the fastest speed in the universe. That does not mean it is the fastest speed in the multi-verse! The early universe it's self, expanded into the multiverse at faster than light speed. So, to travel faster than light... travel outside of the universe, and through the 'bulk' between universes of the multiverse.

Finnish experts made a bet about this being the case. They bet a bottle of whisky. I guess they won.

Originally posted by Larryman
No matter if light is the fastest speed in the universe. That does not mean it is the fastest speed in the multi-verse!

Easy tiger! The multiverse is by no means a proven fact.

IRM

Reference frames is irrelevant. The differences detected are not accountable by GPS satellites, and the latest explanation is a desperate clamber to cling to the relativity theory, and preserve the false matrix posing as science.
TPTB know that too much relies on the speed of light being constant, and without it the whole tower of cards collapses.

This theory is basically saying that the rotation of the earth relative to the GPS satellite is the cause of the nanosecond difference. Absolute lies. Using the same fuzzy logic, adjustments to plane flights for the rotation of the earth would be just as neccesary. Try asking a pilot if he makes adjustments for the rotation of the earth.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
They seriously forgot to account for relatively? I find it hard to believe these people built something as complex as the LHC.

They haven't admitted that yet, and until they do, I'm not sure we can say case closed on this.

They only spent 6 months looking for errors. I guess that seems like a long time, but maybe if they had looked a little longer, they would have found their mistake, if that's what this is, which it appears to be.

www.technologyreview.com...

So the total correction is 64 nanoseconds, almost exactly what the OPERA team observes.

That's impressive but it's not to say the problem is done and dusted. Peer review is an essential part of the scientific process and this argument must hold its own under scrutiny from the community at large and the OPERA team in particular.

If it stands up, this episode will be laden with irony. Far from breaking Einstein's theory of relatively, the faster-than-light measurement will turn out to be another confirmation of it.

Yeah, that would be kind of ironic, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by sinthia

This theory is basically saying that the rotation of the earth relative to the GPS satellite is the cause of the nanosecond difference.

Using the same fuzzy logic, adjustments to plane flights for the rotation of the earth would be just as neccesary. Try asking a pilot if he makes adjustments for the rotation of the earth.

I wasn't aware that pilots used nanosecond precision.

Besides, planes (as just one example) do experience a different form of relativistic time dilation, which has been measured, is confirmed to correlate with GR, and is fully accounted for in GPS systems.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Yeah, that would be kind of ironic, wouldn't it?

Bob: HOLY CRAP! All our calculations indicate the neutrino can travel FTL!
Jim: I can't believe it...this is going the shatter to theory of relativity!
*6 months later*
Bob: Jim...I think we forgot to account for relativity...



reply to post by CLPrime

Besides, planes (as just one example) do experience a different form of relativistic time dilation

Yeppers!

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


It's not that simple. These Earth-bound scientists, running an Earth-bound experiment, overlooked the relativistic effects of the relative motion of the Earth below an orbiting GPS satellite used to measure the Earth-based time taken to travel between two Earth-bound locations. This isn't a simple case of neglecting relativity... this is one of the most obscure effects of relativity that we could possibly come across.

reply to post by CLPrime

this is one of the most obscure effects of relativity that we could possibly come across.

No it's not. Scientists have known that satellites experience the effects of relativity for a very long time now. I learnt about it in general physics classes. You would think that scientists shooting exotic particles across countries would have known it.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


No, this isn't time dilation caused by being within a gravitational potential, which is what we account for with everything from GPS to airplanes. This is caused by the disparity between the stationary frame of reference on the surface of the Earth and the frame of reference of the GPS satellite, which views the Earth as moving below it. It's not your grandmother's time dilation... this is time discrepancy caused by frame asymmetry. It's pure Special Relativity, while what we normally account for are General Relativistic effects.

reply to post by CLPrime


Gravitational time dilation is something I didn't actually know about until I looked it up just then. I only knew about the time dilation caused by velocity, and I did in fact learn years ago that the satellites orbiting Earth experience this type of time dilation. It's not uncommon knowledge. It's actually very obvious. I'm pretty sure the Hafele and Keating Experiment was one of the first successful attempts to measure velocity time dilation.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


It's also not velocity time dilation. Velocity and gravitational time dilation are two sides of the same coin. This isn't either.

Actually, you might say this is inside-out velocity dilation.