America is so loving

Toltec - Having lived in the UK for some time I can tell you that plastic bullets only get used in proper rioting.

If a protest is peaceful then very limited force is used because anything more risks inflaming the situation. The police have learned a lot of lessons from Northern Ireland, and this is one of them.

Plastic bullets were used in Northern Ireland fairly regularly, I'm not sure if they still are. A rioter was killed by one in the mid 90's so I wouldn't say that plastic bullets are 100% non-lethal.

5POF - Honestly, most protestors don't hit people with their signs! I went on the last march in London, 200-500K people, 5 arrests during the day, another 20 later in the evening from people blocking Oxford Street who were removed by police. Honestly, peace protestors aren't all radical anarchists.

What is a protester supposed to do to make a point?

Ok, they blockaded the trucks, this does not translate into:

The protesters hit the police or the trucks with rubber bulletts or sting balls, does it?

Then the police should be blockading them in return.

You bloody americans (generalisation) do have the habit of being very rough and heavy handed, specially the police.

You can just go back a few years to see how the cops bashed black people like Rodney King and some others.

In the USA there must be the maximum hatred for races which are not your own, ie the Iraqis.

Your are complaining about the rest of the world but it is the US which has been actively dishing in out to everyone else.

More free than anywhere else I can think of....

If you disagree, then by all means....MOVE!

Freedom is not what Americans have. Americans have liberties which stop when they impune on others liberties. These protestors have every right to be heard. What they don't have a right to do is interupt public transportation ie.. blocking public roads or public buildings without prior notification and permit to do so. They do not have the liberty to strike someone that doesn't agree with them and has different business than their event in a public place. They do not have the liberty to strike a law officer. They do not have the right to trespass on PRIVATLY owned property. No one comes to their art studio and smashes paintings in protest of them... Just as an example. The major point here is that under the terror threat, we need all emergency personel in their positions. The protest take away from the amount of protection from a terrorist act by distracting police and causing various traffic problems. This puts in danger, the lives of all involved including the protestors themselves. Have protest in a public place that you have sanctioned ie..an open park or at private residences and businesses sympathetic to your cause. After all, others pay taxes to drive on public roads too and they have to move if their vehicle is hindering the flow of traffic. Let eliminate the double standards here.

Everyone has the right to protest...."peacefully". When it infringes on others' rights, then it crosses the line, and becomes a crime. Indeed, the protestors who were trying to interfere with the supply shipments to the troops, are guilty of no less than treason, by definition....they should be happy to be nursing a few bumps and bruises from rubber bullets, vs. the alternative that could be levied against them....

To be honest, if the protestors are not causing imminent danger to other people, I think rubber bullets are overly harsh.

If they're rioting then go ahead.

In Germany there were huge demonstrations to prevent shipments of nuclear material around the country. These were not solved by blasting rubber bullets into the people blocking the trains, instead the people were moved on one by one by police.

This is the only civilised way to deal with peaceful demonstrations.

What about my attitude surprises you?

Dom, again I agree that it is harsh. I think a lot of cops lose control frankly. I know it takes a better man than me to do that job. I haven't the patients for people that choose illegal acts when they have alternatives. I feel for those just hungry and needing food but the first time a gang banger took a swing at me, I'd blow his head off. Thats why I wouldn't make it through my first day on that job. Better for me to stick with a tech field. I find myself feeling sorry for some poor people when that show cops is on tv. I find myself yelling "shoot the idiot..will you just shoot him" a lot also for the people i think are just useless. Pretty cold I guess. i think they could have used a better deterent like water or something..unless the protestors became violent themselves and threatened safety of others. Maybe they did. After seeing it on TV, I was glad to be somewhere else but there.

I know what you mean astro. I guess it does make it more difficult when the protestors are a minority also. I do generally get the impression that US police techniques are a little gungho. For example, watching a little bit of US "Cops" programs and the like, US police seem really keen to point their guns in peoples faces when it's not necessarily needed.

Over here we have special armed response units, they only get called when shots have been fired or weapons identified. Other than that the regular police have nightsticks and CS spray, but no guns. They can still come over fairly aggressively I guess, but it's not like either of the two is going to kill you if someone gets trigger-happy...

I dunno, I think peaceful demo's require peaceful solutions. If they get rowdy use water cannon, if they start chucking firebombs use plastic bullets.

Rules of Engagement in Northern Ireland for example:

"They should only be used where other methods to restore order have been tried and failed or would be likely to fail.

That the use of plastic bullets is necessary to reduce a serious risk of loss of life, serious injury or substantial and serious damage to property which would endanger life

Officers may only fire with authorisation and they must then file a full report with comments from a superior officer. "

news.bbc.co.uk...

17 deaths since they were introduced.

Rodney King incident...

Here we have a fleeing convicted felon, hopped up on PCP, resisting arrest by attacking police officers....if they want to circle-beat him, I have no problem with it...such scum only understand one thing....a stick upside the head.

Then, people protested the verdict, by basically destroying their own neighborhoods.... Yep, real intelligent...

So, do police sometimes over react? Sure, but when faced with stupidity (infringing on others' rights, not the protesting in general) in enmasse, I can forgive them for it....

Gazrok, I agree with you that Rodney King is a scumbag. He's been arrested so many times since then that its not funny. However, I have to admit that these officers used more force than needed and broke the law. Not saying that iwould have done anything different. Once he'd assaulted me and I realized I was dealing with a homocidal maniac on acid, i would have beat the crap out of him myself and I'm sure that he deserved every blow he got. But, i would have been up on charges. thats whay I was telling Dom that it takes a better man than me to deal with people like that. I admit it, I'd layed into him once he hit me. But I think the riots were really uncalled for. I mean, its one thing to protest but burning your own house down to do it is just stupid!

The protesters in Oakland were on private property.Which means they were trespassing.When asked to leave they refused.As far as I know they had no permits to protest.So as far as I can tell the police had the right do what was needed to remove them.

Lie detector

I don't completely agree with the pellet shootings much either, but you simply cannot just move a large crowd aside, this will most likely lead to the police getting hurt and being outnumbered. I think there may have been better ways, but it does not change the way you present your views. I am not sure what country you are from, but If it's not the US I am sure I can look up some facts from there , display them and say 'look what an evil presence these people are'. While you may not have meant to imply such things, your wording does imply them.

You seem more concerned over wanting the US to be punished and wrong than for those you claim they wrong. That may not be your intent, but it is how you present yourself. I think if you presented yourself in a more factual way and less biased way others will take you all the more seriously. Otherwise you just come across as an alarmist and others will write you off. No harm meant.

Originally posted by Lie Detector

Ok, whatever you say. Now why don't you go bow down to that man with the goat head again.

Silly

Originally posted by zaxatron

This explains it all!

You do not live in a democratic, free country but in a FASCIST one run by BUSH and his dirty doers like Rumsfeld, Powell, the police and the army.

Don't talk, don't protest otherwise I shoot you! (sarcastic)

Sillier

definition for Silly

Main Entry: sil�ly
Pronunciation: 'si-lE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): sil�li�er; -est
Etymology: Middle English sely, silly happy, innocent, pitiable, feeble, from Old English s[AE]lig, from s[AE]l happiness; akin to Old High German sAlig happy
Date: 14th century
1 : archaic : HELPLESS, WEAK
2 a : RUSTIC, PLAIN b : obsolete : lowly in station : HUMBLE
3 a : weak in intellect : FOOLISH b : exhibiting or indicative of a lack of common sense or sound judgment c : TRIFLING, FRIVOLOUS
4 : being stunned or dazed
synonym see SIMPLE
- sil�li�ly /'si-l&-lE/ adverb
- sil�li�ness /'si-lE-n&s/ noun
- silly noun or adverb

Pronunciation Key

� 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

How I feel at the moment

Priceless