Christian -V- Wiccan Discussion

Here is a thought for those interested. My position is that the so called Christian Church is not following Christ's teachings for the most part. If they did they would love their enemies and do good to those that have wronged them.

The Christian church is more likely historically to have crushed their enemies and tortured and killed those who have wronged them.

My background is one of both worlds. I was first a Wiccan and then much later became a Christian. I knew about the atrocities done to my Pict ancestors as well as my Blackfoot ancestors by the Church and through the Roman Catholic faith. They tortured, burned alive, killed and raped many of my ancestors under the color of law and with the support of the church and state. In the name of Christ.

I still wanted to understand the teachings attributed to Jesus Christ. My study caused me to accept that Christ was right. He got it. He had developed a personal relationship with the source of all creation. I was at one time calling myself a Wiccan then later professed my Christianity.

The problem was that I could not accept the bloody history of the so called Christian church. So much death and horror in the name of the prince of peace. Jesus taught that God loves everyone and wants all of us to love one another as we love him. How can this be as the Christian church was devoid of these values. They hated anyone different than they are. They murdered those who did not accept their version of Jesus Christ. How can these 2 faiths ever reconcile I wondered.

I came to the conclusion that they did not need to reconcile. There was no conflict between the teachings of Christ and the Wiccan faith. Jesus did not teach hatred of others. Jesus did not command the murder of other people. These things that were done in his name were not of the teachings of Jesus. They were a twisted version and were based on half truths. Jesus never said "suffer not a Witch to live". The accurate translation from the Greek was actually "suffer not a poisoner to live" that was from Exodus 22:18 and Christ's teachings overturned all that stupid animal sacrifice era stupidity. It was replaced with Love your enemies Matthew 5:44.

The teachings of Jesus are not that different than the teachings of the Wiccan. We believe that the first law is "So long at you harm no one do as you will". Sounds real libertarian don't it. Compare that to the golden rule attributed to Jesus. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. How is that materially different than the Wiccan law? Short answer is that it isn't.

The Christian faith is an off shoot of Judaism. In Judaism they used to have a very strong faith in not only a father god but also a mother goddess. There names for them were called Yahweh and Shekinah. That has become obscured by deliberate distortions of the facts of history. The Wiccan and the Hebrew faiths were not that much different at one time.

The power of the God and Goddess descending on the high priest and priestess in Wicca during our ceremonies was no different than the power of the holy spirit in the Christian religion. The common ground was abandoned long ago. I only want to do with thread what the spirit guides me to do. That is to let the shamanic faiths and that of the Christians to realize the common ground that we still have.

Jesus is welcome in my circle.

I have two things to say in regard to this:

You will know them by their works, and
They have their reward

Originally posted by wayouttheredude

Jesus is welcome in my circle.

edit on 12-10-2011 by wayouttheredude because: dyslexic

As he is in mine. Good post. I've known that what Jesus preached made sense to me personally, and the Wiccan way always has as well, but for some reason I never connected the dots.

I just learned something today. Thank you.

I sometimes feel like I'm doing the Christian thing wrong because I don't have a hatred for, say, Muslims or homosexuals...and then I realize that I am doing it the right way.

Not that I condone either practice, mind you, I'm just sure that I should be more worried about my own plank, and as loving as I can be to others.

I have wiccan and homosexual friends from my pre-Christian life, and while I don't really hang out with the old crowd anymore, I would never write them off.

Jesus was accused of eating & socializing with "sinners" as if it were a bad thing. Didn't stop him from doing it or from loving them with that sweet, sweet heart of his.

Having said that, while the "golden rules" seem to be saying the same thing, I think there is somewhat of a difference.

The wiccan version being more about "self" and self-will albeit with the caveat that it's not at the expense of others.

The Christian saying is proactive and about 'doing' good unto others first and foremost.

That's my take anyway. Interesting OP. Peace.

reply to post by visualmiscreant


Certainly the fruits of the Roman Catholic church has always been torture and genocide of indigenous peoples. Jesus did not teach these values that is certain from what I have read.

reply to post by The GUT


Perhaps closer to the golden rule is the "The 3 fold law" That being that what you do to others is returned to you 3 fold. So if you bless others you will also be blessed. Many times over. "Blessed be all of those who cross so must it be."

As a Mystic Christian I've learned to drop the dogma and include Wiccan (and Pagan/Shamanic beliefs at large) ways of understanding the world in my world view. I see no contradiction. They are just different perspectives and ways of understanding the All That Is.

reply to post by wayouttheredude


Excellent! Simple and obvious, yet, brilliant! I'm a man of many faiths but was brought up Christian which is where most of my knowledge lies. My wife is Wiccan. And let me tell you we get along juuuust dandy. I've also read that Jesus studied Buddhism, and that's what he was doing during his "lost years". They have documented his visit somewhere in the East, and Jesus actually became a monk there. He was known as St. Isa or Esu or somethin like that... I believe a person can benefit from the study of all religions and that's what I plan to do.

It's not the religion, its the person practicing it that dictates right or wrong, good or evil. I also think religions could all have the same root, but over time, with different cultures created and seperated by continents and creating new languages, it became much like a game we call "telephone" here in the Western world.

reply to post by wayouttheredude


In response to persecutions of innocent lives by the Catholic Church who committed such acts in the name of Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall test every man's work of what sort it is.

The RCC is under a lot of scrutiny now with pedophilia, immoral sexual acts, etc. etc.and its power has been descending. During this time of "fire" God is revealing their ways and hopefully, they will learn and repent during this blessing in disguise
It saddens me how Christians scare the entire world away from true faith... now, the fruits of the worldwide Roman Catholic Church influences are being revealed by God.

And if you believe that you are following God's will at heart, more power to you!

my personal opinion is... i wouldn't mess with the spiritual world on that kind of level with Wiccan traditions. I think it opens alot of gateways for unwanted spirits into your life, because you are worshiping this Earth.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are from God and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one

We do not belong to this world... we belong to Christ!

Nevermind

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
reply to post by visualmiscreant

 

Certainly the fruits of the Roman Catholic church has always been torture and genocide of indigenous peoples. Jesus did not teach these values that is certain from what I have read.

This is a sort of weird belief they have like burning people is doing them a favor by ridding them of evil spirits. Murdering people or whole nations of people saved them from a life of sin.
I of course disagree with this philosophy of genocide but it is still prevalent and we should understand it did not ever go away but is alive and well and is fundamental to current events.

reply to post by wayouttheredude


Star and Flag for you. I thought this was going to be another Wiccan bashing thread. I have to agree with you, many of the Wiccans I know follow the teachings of Jesus and walk the path of peace and understanding a lot better than the average Christian does. The Christians I know personally are filled with hate for anyone not a Christian, and if you display a star, they will cross the street trying to save your soul.

There came a time when I too wished to know more, in fact, all about the Christian religion, and it and the Bible's origins. I have come to believe it was all faked, and the Bloodline of Jesus and Mary has been corrupted so that it will never be pure again.

You spoke of the bloody history of the Christian Church, I too studied on that, and it goes far, and quite deep. My own Great Grandmother, who escaped the tyranny of Hitler's Germany, had to go into hiding here in America, because she was a Gypsy. And because she married a Native. As I studied into the doings of the Early Church, I saw that millions had been murdered in the name of Jesus, and I suspect if not for the law, this would still be going on. My own son went to Church a few weeks ago,, and he came back and told me the members were all praying for our souls, because we are all Satan worshippers and going to Hell.
These people do not even know us!

Most Christians do crow the Divinity of Jesus, but do not do as he taught. Jesus never started any religion, and never wrote a book. He didn't build a Church, and he did have the Sophia (wisdom) of his Divine Mother, the Goddess, whom Christians bash at every opportunity. Then Church, of course, made Divinity an all male club, as it still is today. If Jesus did come back, I know he would take a lot of issue with modern Christians, for perverting his message, and turning him into a white man.