Europe to destroy traditional family and sexual identity

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
So my great niece is my sister too and her great-grandmother is her parent.

Thank you.

I am raising a 3 1/2 year old grandson and an 11 year old granddaughter. The father of the grandson died. If anything happens to my daughter - - I will become legal guardian. Why would I want to take extra time and go through unnecessary explanations when I can just mark Parent 1.

So stupid to try to make this into a big deal.

The only issue with this is in some people's twisted minds.

Originally posted by Siddharta

One time when we were at a party at her house and we were the only heteros with child, I could not resist to ask the lesbian and gay friends of her about the problem that they never would have their own children. Some of them liked to discuss about it, some of them did not. Our friend did not take part in that discussion. Later I felt a little stupid and thought that it was a bad idea because of too many beers to talk about that matter.

My two cents: thank GOD no one expects me to have children! Not sure why, but I am overjoyed not to have children in this life. So that I can't, is absolutely no big deal, and in fact one of the great things about being gay - until recently where we CAN get married and some DO have or adopt children. If I ever meet someone who will want to have children, my answer will be "they're colonizing a new planet, and I'm going!..." But if he already has children, that's cool.

Originally posted by steveknows

We all know that when a gay makes eyes at a hetro male it's liberation and when the hetro male is uncomfortable about it it's homophobia.

We all know that the concept of mum and dad is a freeky thing.

I never thought that. Anyone can be uncomfortable if anyone makes eyes at them, or they can find it flattering, but there's nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with it. I'm the first to admit that it can be weird when your non-chosen sex makes eyes at you. When a woman does to me, I'm kinda like "ohmygod! What a trip!" but it's always flattering, especially because I always feel somewhat like "I wasn't even thinking of that!"

Gay male eyes at hetero male: something I never ever ever do. It's hard not to blame a hetero male for being uncomfortable - the whole situation COULD be construed as "maybe that guy will make a pass at me" and like it or not, that's not comfortable for anyone in that situation.

It's really only if the hetero male wants to beat him up or whatever because of it - now THAT's lame!

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by steveknows

We all know that when a gay makes eyes at a hetro male it's liberation and when the hetro male is uncomfortable about it it's homophobia.

We all know that the concept of mum and dad is a freeky thing.

I never thought that. Anyone can be uncomfortable if anyone makes eyes at them, or they can find it flattering, but there's nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with it. I'm the first to admit that it can be weird when your non-chosen sex makes eyes at you. When a woman does to me, I'm kinda like "ohmygod! What a trip!" but it's always flattering, especially because I always feel somewhat like "I wasn't even thinking of that!"

Gay male eyes at hetero male: something I never ever ever do. It's hard not to blame a hetero male for being uncomfortable - the whole situation COULD be construed as "maybe that guy will make a pass at me" and like it or not, that's not comfortable for anyone in that situation.

It's really only if the hetero male wants to beat him up or whatever because of it - now THAT's lame!

And that true. If the hetro guy goes viking it's wrong and he shouldn't do it . But what actually happens is even if he shows just a displeasure at it he's called homophobe as if there's something wrong with his perfectly normal reaction.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
So my great niece is my sister too and her great-grandmother is her parent.

Thank you.

I am raising a 3 1/2 year old grandson and an 11 year old granddaughter. The father of the grandson died. If anything happens to my daughter - - I will become legal guardian. Why would I want to take extra time and go through unnecessary explanations when I can just mark Parent 1.

So stupid to try to make this into a big deal.

The only issue with this is in some people's twisted minds.

No it's not. It's just one more thing being put in place to change the majority concept of what a family is. And you just gave a perfect example. If a hetrosexual person from a male and female mum and dad family (the majority) don't like then it's twisted that they don't like it . As if coming from a family where mum and dad are married and hetro is something dirty and strange.

My God.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Siddharta
And if it makes you more comfortable: I think, that homosexuality is caused by a socialization, where something went wrong.

Homosexuality is a completely natural birth difference - - - such as some people are born left handed.

It is not about socialization.

But that is off topic too.

Okay, I just have to post my two cents on this. Sorry, but I don't necessarily believe that anyone is born gay. (For those who don't know, I AM gay, so don't flip!)

First of all, the "gay gene" is total BS. It doesn't exist, or if it does, no one's proven it. Gays latched onto the original "study" (to prove that "we didn't choose to be gay") and it made huge headlines, but no one bothered to talk about it a month later when a quiet article in the back of the newspaper stated the study was completely discredited.

Except in very rare cases (such as males being born with an extra X chromosome, or females being born with a Y), there's no proof that anyone is born gay. Hitler was not born a dictator.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not saying that gay people choose it whatsoever. It happens. As I related in another post, in my own case, I tried desperately not to be, so no, I didn't choose it. It happened.

But I think each is born with many capacities. It really comes down to what kind of society you are born into. I believe each has an inherent bisexuality, but that the society we're born into now, completely inhibits this. No one has to SAY anything. But when you're a child, you observe, and you pick up beliefs, attitudes and behaviors and experiences and all these things mix with your inborn temperament.

So in this society, everyone is taught to be straight and to completely block out any other leanings. In a gay person's case, at some point they see an attraction for the same sex. Everyone has a first time to be attracted to anyone, usually in early childhood. A gay person can feel the same-sex attraction as the first one. So a part of him latches onto it. The gay person could EASILY have been bisexual or become a hetero who's blocked off any bisexual leanings, but instead, he does what he sees everyone else doing - choosing one or the other, which is a completely learned behavior and operating almost subconsciously. So in effect, just like the hetero person who blocks out any gay leanings (quite efficiently I might add), the gay person blocks out any straight leanings.

THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN TO EITHER ORIENTATION. It happens because we learn it. In ancient Rome, where bisexuality was rampant, no one cared or judged who anyone was attracted to, so bisexuality was widespread.

So in closing, my view is that being exclusively heterosexual is about as unnatural as being exclusively homosexual. Within the grand scheme of our present society, neither is wrong, but both are limited by the constraints we were all born into.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by steveknows

We all know that when a gay makes eyes at a hetro male it's liberation and when the hetro male is uncomfortable about it it's homophobia.

We all know that the concept of mum and dad is a freeky thing.

I never thought that. Anyone can be uncomfortable if anyone makes eyes at them, or they can find it flattering, but there's nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with it. I'm the first to admit that it can be weird when your non-chosen sex makes eyes at you. When a woman does to me, I'm kinda like "ohmygod! What a trip!" but it's always flattering, especially because I always feel somewhat like "I wasn't even thinking of that!"

Gay male eyes at hetero male: something I never ever ever do. It's hard not to blame a hetero male for being uncomfortable - the whole situation COULD be construed as "maybe that guy will make a pass at me" and like it or not, that's not comfortable for anyone in that situation.

It's really only if the hetero male wants to beat him up or whatever because of it - now THAT's lame!

And that true. If the hetro guy goes viking it's wrong and he shouldn't do it . But what actually happens is even if he shows just a displeasure at it he's called homophobe as if there's something wrong with his perfectly normal reaction.

Well you're right. As I said in a different post, when people are trying to assert their rights in society, especially ones that were underground for a long time, they often go overboard, and this is a case of that sometimes for sure. It's like you can't fire a gay person for being a lousy worker because they'll pull out the gay card. That's annoying, but it almost always happens when "groups" of any sort are "taking back their power" or whatever.

Then again, it's never fun for ANYONE to show their attraction to ANYONE and get a dis-pleasurable reaction. If I'm uncomfortable, I usually just pretend I'm clueless!

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Siddharta
And if it makes you more comfortable: I think, that homosexuality is caused by a socialization, where something went wrong.

Homosexuality is a completely natural birth difference - - - such as some people are born left handed.

It is not about socialization.

But that is off topic too.

Okay, I just have to post my two cents on this. Sorry, but I don't necessarily believe that anyone is born gay. (For those who don't know, I AM gay, so don't flip!)

First of all, the "gay gene" is total BS. It doesn't exist, or if it does, no one's proven it. Gays latched onto the original "study" (to prove that "we didn't choose to be gay") and it made huge headlines, but no one bothered to talk about it a month later when a quiet article in the back of the newspaper stated the study was completely discredited.

Except in very rare cases (such as males being born with an extra X chromosome, or females being born with a Y), there's no proof that anyone is born gay. Hitler was not born a dictator.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not saying that gay people choose it whatsoever. It happens. As I related in another post, in my own case, I tried desperately not to be, so no, I didn't choose it. It happened.

But I think each is born with many capacities. It really comes down to what kind of society you are born into. I believe each has an inherent bisexuality, but that the society we're born into now, completely inhibits this. No one has to SAY anything. But when you're a child, you observe, and you pick up beliefs, attitudes and behaviors and experiences and all these things mix with your inborn temperament.

So in this society, everyone is taught to be straight and to completely block out any other leanings. In a gay person's case, at some point they see an attraction for the same sex. Everyone has a first time to be attracted to anyone, usually in early childhood. A gay person can feel the same-sex attraction as the first one. So a part of him latches onto it. The gay person could EASILY have been bisexual or become a hetero who's blocked off any bisexual leanings, but instead, he does what he sees everyone else doing - choosing one or the other, which is a completely learned behavior and operating almost subconsciously. So in effect, just like the hetero person who blocks out any gay leanings (quite efficiently I might add), the gay person blocks out any straight leanings.

THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN TO EITHER ORIENTATION. It happens because we learn it. In ancient Rome, where bisexuality was rampant, no one cared or judged who anyone was attracted to, so bisexuality was widespread.

So in closing, my view is that being exclusively heterosexual is about as unnatural as being exclusively homosexual. Within the grand scheme of our present society, neither is wrong, but both are limited by the constraints we were all born into.

"So in closing, my view is that being exclusively heterosexual is about as unnatural as being exclusively homosexual. Within the grand scheme of our present society, neither is wrong, but both are limited by the constraints we were all born into".

Yes you can see how unatural it is to be hetrosexual by the way the male and female reproductive organs aren't meant for each other.

Oh man. What a load of bull. Seriously.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
So my great niece is my sister too and her great-grandmother is her parent.

Thank you.

I am raising a 3 1/2 year old grandson and an 11 year old granddaughter. The father of the grandson died. If anything happens to my daughter - - I will become legal guardian. Why would I want to take extra time and go through unnecessary explanations when I can just mark Parent 1.

So stupid to try to make this into a big deal.

The only issue with this is in some people's twisted minds.

No it's not. It's just one more thing being put in place to change the majority concept of what a family is.

That is really YOUR problem.

Oh - - I just LOVE when posters throw "majority" in - - as if it matters in treating all people equally.

We wouldn't have a disabilities act either - - - if majority had their way. Disabled people are way too annoying and difficult to accommodate.

Let's see - - I remember when my mom and us 3 kids (under 10) were thrown out of a restaurant because she was an insurance risk and it disturbed other customers.

Screw majority.

reply to post by Annee


You aren't their parent. You are their guardian. You are their Grandmother.

I am very happy that someone in your family is willing to step up to be the person that those children need. That is fantastic.

You are their Grandmother. A guardian. These two things are wonderful and special in their own way. You are not their Mother. You are not their Father.

You are something else, and that something else is a good thing. You confuse the entire matter, for everyone and distinctly for them, by not seeing that.

I've met people who are in their 60s whose Grandparents did this, and they are STILL messed up from the confusing boundaries this set up for them.

Grandmother is a fantastic thing, even when you have to take on the extra responsibilities. Allow them and you to have and honour that thing.

Originally posted by Propulsion

Originally posted by KhaliWitch
Blessed be all,
Here in the Netherlands we already have forms that are formatted in this way with tick boxes with titles for each parent, which I find a decent way to fill out the form!
I am not appalled or offended by it, I find it proof of the fact that the government has moved into the next century and recognizes that couples can comprise of same/ opposite sexes!!
I am glad that the UK has moved forward also!

Namasté

At what C$$T

edit on 12-10-2011 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)

What if a child is raised by another relative, how will they fill out the forms if they can only choose from mother/ father??? Think about that!

Namasté

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Siddharta
And if it makes you more comfortable: I think, that homosexuality is caused by a socialization, where something went wrong.

Homosexuality is a completely natural birth difference - - - such as some people are born left handed.

It is not about socialization.

But that is off topic too.

Okay, I just have to post my two cents on this. Sorry, but I don't necessarily believe that anyone is born gay. (For those who don't know, I AM gay, so don't flip!)

Gay or not you are wrong.

And no one is saying there is a gay gene. But - - there is something in how the "soup was stirred".

Like I said in another post. I've been following gay issues for 20+ years. I most likely know more then most gays about all this - - - other then actually being gay.

As most people just go about living their life - - until something interferes with it - - - gays are no exception. Many gays have no interest in the politics of gay rights or what causes someone to be gay.

Mark Spitz coach couldn't swim. You don't have to be gay to have knowledge of what's been going on in studies and what's going on in rights issues.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
So my great niece is my sister too and her great-grandmother is her parent.

Thank you.

I am raising a 3 1/2 year old grandson and an 11 year old granddaughter. The father of the grandson died. If anything happens to my daughter - - I will become legal guardian. Why would I want to take extra time and go through unnecessary explanations when I can just mark Parent 1.

So stupid to try to make this into a big deal.

The only issue with this is in some people's twisted minds.

No it's not. It's just one more thing being put in place to change the majority concept of what a family is.

That is really YOUR problem.

Oh - - I just LOVE when posters throw "majority" in - - as if it matters in treating all people equally.

We wouldn't have a disabilities act either - - - if majority had their way. Disabled people are way too annoying and difficult to accommodate.

Let's see - - I remember when my mom and us 3 kids (under 10) were thrown out of a restaurant because she was an insurance risk and it disturbed other customers.

Screw majority.

Hmm. How lame. A person in a wheelchair doesn't act as if people who can walk are the ones with something wrong with them.

You are avoiding the point. You know that I mean that the majority are being made out to be freaks because the politically correct mob have taken on the tactic that if you can't be part of something like say a traditional hetro family unit then it should be demonised.

Originally posted by Annee

Yep - - they signed over their grandchildren for adoption - - - then threw a fit when a gay couple was chosen as the best parents to adopt.

A Christian couple who say they felt forced into giving up their grandchildren for adoption said they would never have done so if they had known they would be placed with a homosexual couple.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

You are somewhat mistaken in your assertions, according to the article you cite.

The grandparents in the article appear to have been suing for the right to adopt or at least retain custody of the children, which involved an unsuccessful two year legal battle.

They wanted to bring up the five-year-old boy and his four-year-old sister in their own home but said they were forced to give them up by social workers who had concerns about the couple's age and their health.

They spent two years involved in court cases over the children, whose 26-year-old mother is a recovering heroin addict, and finally agreed to adoption when they were faced with mounting legal bills.

The couple claimed they had been told that they may be allowed to see their grandchildren twice a year, but were warned they would have to drop their opposition to the adoption.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

They grand parents didn't 'sign over their grandchildren for adoption'.

They appear to have ran out of money to continue the legal fight to be allowed to adopt or retain custody of the child.

They had no rights as grand parents to sign over.

While I greatly admire that you look after you grandchildren, do understand that if you lived in the UK, social workers would have the right to remove them from you and put them up for adoption if they deemed it to be in the best interests of the children. For instance, if you suffered some sort of medical condition, as in the case above.

To be allowed to adopt or retain custody of your grandchildren, you would need to launch a legal case to attempt to do so, which may or may not be successful, as in the case above.

You would however be allowed to see your own grandchild twice a year as long as you didn't object to the choice of adopting parents.

Nonetheless, it is fair to say that there appears to be more to this case than meets the eye.

Do understand however that in the UK, being a grandparent gives you no rights over grandchildren in respect of adoption or custody. You may find the situation is similar where you live.

"So in closing, my view is that being exclusively heterosexual is about as unnatural as being exclusively homosexual. Within the grand scheme of our present society, neither is wrong, but both are limited by the constraints we were all born into".

Yes you can see how unatural it is to be hetrosexual by the way the male and female reproductive organs aren't meant for each other.

Oh man. What a load of bull. Seriously.



I didn't say it was unnatural to be heterosexual. And do you really think all sex has the sole purpose of procreation? It doesn't for animals, and it certainly doesn't for humans.

Oh, better not kiss anyone - the mouth isn't a sexual organ and has nothing to do with making babies either. Oh, also, stay away from breasts, they're for the baby, NOT for you because they don't have anything to do with making a baby, just feeding it. Just because some women's breasts and nipples are very sensitive and easily stimulated and capable of feeling pleasure, stay away from them...

The mouth is a sexual organ - You can taste and smell all sorts of things about your partner that you are not aware of consciously but which have reproductive or bonding meaning.

Originally posted by KhaliWitch

Originally posted by Propulsion

Originally posted by KhaliWitch
Blessed be all,
Here in the Netherlands we already have forms that are formatted in this way with tick boxes with titles for each parent, which I find a decent way to fill out the form!
I am not appalled or offended by it, I find it proof of the fact that the government has moved into the next century and recognizes that couples can comprise of same/ opposite sexes!!
I am glad that the UK has moved forward also!

Namasté

At what C$$T

edit on 12-10-2011 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)

What if a child is raised by another relative, how will they fill out the forms if they can only choose from mother/ father??? Think about that!

Namasté

Guardian. Parent or Guardian.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by thebtheb

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Siddharta
And if it makes you more comfortable: I think, that homosexuality is caused by a socialization, where something went wrong.

Homosexuality is a completely natural birth difference - - - such as some people are born left handed.

It is not about socialization.

But that is off topic too.

Okay, I just have to post my two cents on this. Sorry, but I don't necessarily believe that anyone is born gay. (For those who don't know, I AM gay, so don't flip!)

Gay or not you are wrong.

And no one is saying there is a gay gene. But - - there is something in how the "soup was stirred".

Like I said in another post. I've been following gay issues for 20+ years. I most likely know more then most gays about all this - - - other then actually being gay.

As most people just go about living their life - - until something interferes with it - - - gays are no exception. Many gays have no interest in the politics of gay rights or what causes someone to be gay.

Mark Spitz coach couldn't swim. You don't have to be gay to have knowledge of what's been going on in studies and what's going on in rights issues.

Sorry, but there is no proof whatsoever that anyone is born gay. I have read many many studies, and many books on anthropology that posit the exact scenario I suggest. I can't prove it at all, so I should have mentioned that. It's my opinion, not fact, but it is based on research and studies done by professionals, including psychologist and anthropologists.

You never told me why I'm wrong by the way - your post went into rights instead. And you're right: you're not gay and that makes all the difference. I can remember back to early early childhood, and I can remember heterosexual feelings that are now gone. I was the one there, not you or anyone else. It's possible that some people ARE born gay - but I very much doubt all of them are.

The problem, as I see it, is that gay people LOVE to make being gay an all-encompassing identify. So many of them define themselves by it. Human identify (IMO) is far too broad to assume that anyone is inherently ANY way or any other way, let alone their sexuality. I stand by my assertion that it's WE who limit ourselves in our capacities, capabilities, understandings, psychic abilities, cosmic awareness, and CERTAINLY our sexuality.

I should add that to me, the most important point, relating to this discussion, is that no matter HOW someone engages in homosexuality, no would should be judged for it.

Originally posted by Aeons
The mouth is a sexual organ - You can taste and smell all sorts of things about your partner that you are not aware of consciously but which have reproductive or bonding meaning.

Then that should prove once and for all that if homosexuals are driven to have sex with each other ,there must be all kinds of tastes, smells about each other that are bonding them and to them, mean something, thus making their behavior based on something natural.

reply to post by thebtheb


Are you telling me that my brother was never born gay?

All though he knew it, when he was at a young age, His words not mine.

And that he was a mistake in the so called Gods Design?