Proof of a hiden Government.

Thanks to gladtobehere I had a revelation. In his/her great thread about Michael Scheuer there is a very breif fact about the history of US and Middle East relations.

Our government's siege on the Middle East began in 1953 with Operation Ajax, when they overthrew an elected leader and instead installed a brutal dictator. The practice of installing brutal dictators from Saddam to Osama to Mubarak, to then attacking these same countries to oust these former allies, the U.S. government's actions have been the root cause of Arab anger against the United States.

Now, no need to recap that that in this thread, but this is the catalist that got me thinking.

Over a period of almost 60 years, which must be what? 15 administrations, possibly more? And from every political party. And yet "the US government" has had a single well planned and well executed agenda in the middle east. How is it possible when 2 current parties can't even agree between them on how to turn on a calculator that ALL ruling parties for 60 years have commited to and executed a single agenda?

It can only be if there is a bigger paty, behind the sceens, directing what goes on.

It's like the bable fish. It is so unlikely it prooves the existance of god - perhaps this is the USG's bable fish!

(the bable fish is from the Douglas Adams "Hitchikers Guide to The Galaxy" series of books. If you have not read them, DO IT NOW! Work of genious!)

great point!
it goes to show that western dictaorships are subtle and their plans are spread into effect across many generations, unlike other dictaorships that try and do things in an obvious and direct manner.
people will never realise the truth until it is amazingly obvious
and thats why they get away with it, they developed the smartest form of dictatorship..call it something else and people will never go against it

Despite the arguments you see every day, left versus right, conservative versus liberal, etc, this country has been moving consistently to the right for oh, 60 years or so. This is obvious when you analyze fiscal and foreign policy. In the US it seems the intelligence agencies are the true policy makers, and have been since WWII.

The left/right paradigm in this country today is a facade. I agree entirely with your post.

Nowadays it's very common to see the far right criticize a moderate or even right of moderate policy or idea as being "liberal, marxist or communist." In fact, there was a disgusting and uneducated thread started on ATS last night that is a great example of how short sighted and uninformed this charade has made many of us.

Yes, both parties serve the same master. The partisan politics we witness today isn't real. The key issues we argue about today are all moot points.

Most everything is an intentional distraction.

sorry for the anal retentive fact correction but since 1953 there have been ten administrations:
Eisenhower-Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon-Ford-Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush and Obama makes 11

Not saying things don't predate 1953.

ganjoa

I don't think this is proof of a secret governement.

What you are witnessing here is the logical outcome of "monetarism".

Presidents, and governements, are made up of people who are no different than you and I : they have been culturally educated to accept a certain form of "system dynamics", of which the economy is the center piece.
Money is what defines the most in our lives, be it on a personal or national level.

In fact, if you break things down to the essentiel, politics in general are simply conflictual economic theories. What are the only significant differences between the right wing and left wing politics ?

It's how the money is distributed. How much is spent on what. Left want more redistribtion, right want less taxes.

In this light, why should policies significantly vary between presidents or parties or even ideologies, if the main decisional factor remains the same ? It shouldn't. And doesn't. The primary concern remains the same. More Money.

When a president/governement is elected on campaign promises, and comes to power, he may truly be sincere about change and that, but when faced with the economic reality he inherits, he will find (and most people would be no different) that his margin of manoever is fairely thin.

No president would ever voluntarily back out of a policy that has already cost money, and promises ripe pickings in the future.

My two cents anyway.

I hate to sound ignorant, but what exactly is their single agenda?

The problem is that the idea of creating an atmosphere that hates America is not favorable for the mercantilist ideas that many of the Top 1% still hold dear. Instead, creating stable--yet cruel--dictatorships is favorable for this supposed secret government. I agree that there is definitely an agenda, there is too much at risk to have a goal of creating a hateful empire. Unless the goal is not for the acquisition of resources.

Spell check thread title please.

Originally posted by dashen
Spell check thread title please.

Why should I? Are you intollerant of peoples dissabilities? Shame in you.

Originally posted by dashen
Spell check thread title please.

spelling isnt important if you know what it says

You make a really interesting point. The US has done this extensively in Latin America as well, especially during the 70's and 80's. Salvador Allende anyone? Oscar Romero? I am not sure if it is a "hidden government" but perhaps something more like, an elite agenda that is not contiguous with the traditional, public "agendas" of the Democrats and Republicans. The people who have money will do anything to ensure that the United States is backing foreign policy which allows the country to reap as much profit from the earth as possible. It's why we have such a strong hatred of Venezuela - not because we actually care about Hugo Chavez's political leanings, but because his political leanings coupled with the oil wealth underneath his feet have allowed him to stop bowing to our every whim and he forced the oil corporations to stop sowing massive profits from the Venezuelan and Latin American people's poverty and labor. He'd barely be on our radar if he didn't stand up to us and to the oil companies.

Anyways, yeah, you are definitely correct that this is a clear demonstration of the fact that there is a hidden agenda - I am just not certain it proves there is any kind of secret government. I think it's worse - that the very government we have is the government propagating all these wrongdoings and very few people want to hold them accountable, so they continue to get away with it.

reply to post by ShortMemory


Thank you. My opinion entirely. I do try. I still can't see which word is spelt worng though! lol (is it hidden?) Just guessing lol

Originally posted by ganjoa
sorry for the anal retentive fact correction but since 1953 there have been ten administrations:
Eisenhower-Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon-Ford-Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush and Obama makes 11

Not saying things don't predate 1953.

ganjoa

edit on 11-10-2011 by ganjoa because: add thought

No problem, thank you for the update.

Questionl. Has the US always been a 2 party system since that time?

reply to post by Shamatt


I understand your reasoning and it is not a ridiculous conclusion to come to. But I personally don't see it as proof. Mainly because I don't think that there needs to be a definite group of individuals in place.

Once a system has established itself as working efficiently, producing outcomes that are favoured by a select group who control the system, people can then come and go as they please....but the system will remain the same.

Religion is a good example. Yes, there are numerous different religions, some more popular than others, but the basic foundations of these religions haven't changed for thousands of years. Hundreds of Popes and Cardinals have come and gone in that time but the system still remains as strong as ever.

Politics is just the same. As is big business.

So whilst I am open to the idea of a secret elite having ruled for 60 odd years, I don't think it is absolutely necessary.

Bad guy A hands the 'How to Control and Manipulate the Masses' guidebook to bad guy B and life as we know it goes on...

Originally posted by spacekc929
You make a really interesting point. The US has done this extensively in Latin America as well, especially during the 70's and 80's. Salvador Allende anyone? Oscar Romero? I am not sure if it is a "hidden government" but perhaps something more like, an elite agenda that is not contiguous with the traditional, public "agendas" of the Democrats and Republicans.

That is a cute kitten! The School of the Americas? An old baby boomer told me all about about the training of Salvador Allende here in a that school (located in Georgia) where we train foreigners to become dictators of other countries to serve the United States interest. Something usually tied in with the CIA.

Our government is a joke, but sometimes I agree with Glenn Beck, about there being enough bad to be seen in plain sight than to worry about conspiracies and hidden governments, like the Bilderbergs. The problem with debate and discussion in this country, especially amongst politicians is that it is all based on OPINION. and not knowledge or knowing of classical principles. "What is your opinion of him as a candidate?" "What is your opinion of his view, or your OPINION of her view or stance on this policy" It's all a bunch of BS, opinions are all worthless, like most of these candidates how if they aren't in line with fundamental reasoning.

That's why you are seeing so many homeless people out there. Our government can't do anything right now, it is a government in the wings, it's not functioning. Herbert Hoover days are back. I came to this forum because the last forum I went to was all about people's OPINIONS and they were all stupid crappy opinions at best. One person in particularly a good arguing sophist came in and convinced easily led people in the forum that Abraham Lincoln was a "Corporate fascist" and his "attack" on Fort Sumter. Nonsense. These are the types of dummies you see all the time on Fox news, they don't know anything, spouting always their Opinions.

reply to post by Shamatt


You're not supposed to know that.
It's actually a "secret alien government". I think I used the right phrase there.

Only ignorant people deny the possibility of a secret society ordering the government to do bad things...ww2 is an example of hardcore tyranny

and thats what America will be like in 40 years if we dont get the right people for the job.