The Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street should work together, protesting both banks and government!

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
Here in this demonstrations we do not see manipulation, it's about all kind of people coming together and being aware of the system killing all humanity everywhere, here we speak about being lucid and responsible for our world ! Chapeau !! nice to see people becoming AWARE of the manipulation and evil forces of the actual system !

Aware of manipulation?
Ha!

The OWS group is like a child that refused to cut the grass for 20 years.
Then when their own grandparents came and cut the grass first,
so that it was no longer an overgrown forest of weeds,
the child goes out and cuts the grass again the next day.

That was easy, they think to themselves.
Then they go and start lecturing their grandparents on how to cut grass.


David Grouchy

reply to post by Attrei


You are the only one who seems to get the OPs idea. Everyone else fell into the same old right/left babble, and some foolishness about whether Jesus was a socialist. Why don't we discuss the OP instead of pulling a classic ATS thread derail.

I went to Tea Parties when they first came out, and when I return to the US I intend to go to the OWS protests. I intend to approach my local progressive leaders, and my local Tea Party leaders to form a joint event. Everyone will not agree on most issues. I know that, but there are always commonalities.

We can agree that the government does not represent us, and that special interests of all kinds have no place in our government. We need to be looking for commonalities instead of helping the elites by acting like children. I for one believe there is a common ground. It really is 99% versus 1%. The sad thing is that both parties are controlled by the 1% who use the republicrats to turn the 99% against each other.

I did not support the baillouts of either the banks or the auto industry. The reason is that if something is not doing well in the marketplace, it is because something is wrong. Govt should not be in the business of bailing out private banks or business We cannot compete in the marketplace with foreign companies when they find ways to keep costs low and we do not. How did this work in the auto industry? Big Labor is what keeps costs high, as well as general inflation of raw materials.Also it costs more to comply with govt regulations. Govt had to bail out the auto industry because it ruined the auto industry first. Problem reaction solution, see how that works?
The fact that lawmakers were scared into passing baillout legislation because our leaders and the Federal Reserve said that the economy would fail and it would cause widespread worldwide economic disaster is what's wrong with this country. All corrupt, all with their hands out to take from the coffers of the public treasury. It's time for this all to stop, but it will not stop as long as people are tromping around demanding MORE spending, more handouts, more debt forgiveness, more this more that. That is all OccupyWall Street is doing, is asking for handouts and socialism. Im sorry but I have read various demand lists and they all have the same leftist Democrat Party rhetoric shared by the Obama administration and the Tea Party cannot and should not sign on to that monstrous program.

reply to post by stephinrazin


It is not a derail when people say what they think. Do I really have to agree with the position because you think everyone should play nice and share their toys ?

True, govt does not represent us, but then the Occupiers seem to want a lot of govt intervention. I don't see anything in their lists that is remotely Free Enterprise or private sector solutions, it's all about what they think govt should be doing for them.

The govt giveth and the govt taketh away, a good thing to remember.

Thank you for your input so far. Please keep it coming.

While the question of Christ and economics is fascinating in its own right, I do not see it as relevant to the topic as I presented it in my original post. Perhaps that could be discussed in the theology forum or elsewhwere. I have to wonder...is somebody trying to derail this thread and prevent people from examining the actual points I mentioned?

And while the Tea party and the OWS have different goals, I would like to think that at least for a moment, they could each focus on the specific issue of the economy. The Tea Party could bring pressure to bear on Washington to stop bailing out the banks (which IS socialism and welfare, any way you cut it) and establishing accountability by punishing those who are at fault. Meanwhile, the OWS could focus on letting the banks know that they can't get away with their criminal, un-American, un-capitalist behavior. If the two could work side by side on THESE SPECIFIC ISSUES, a big part of the problem would crumble away. Then they could go back to battling each other on the other issues.

I hope people will consider this core issue and how powerful such a temporary alliance could be.

Everyone must come together right from the start, otherwise at the end of it all there will be numerous smaller factions fighting with each other, and no one will be any further ahead! Those being protested against will easily use any infighting amongst the protestors, to launch a "See...I told you so!" sort of retaliation that will make themselves come out smelling like a rose! These are times that call for level heads, and no laws broken!

Originally posted by Attrei
reply to post by Partygirl

 

You have an excellent point. I noticed immediately that the people started ignoring your message and started slamming the fact you are a Christian. Some people are so pre-programmed to see the word Christian and must start insulting the individual for they are afraid that if they find that they agree with you they might be construed as a Christian themselves.

I have stated the same thing. I went to a Tea-Party meeting back when they first started. I checked out their message. I found that I agreed with a portion of their message, but they had no backbone. The average age was people from the age of 45-65. These people would only partially change things, because they did not have the younger generation's support.

I went to a Occupy Movement meeting just the other day, average age at this meeting was 19-35. Different demographic completely. I asked around to many of the people there if they had ever gone and checked out the Tea Party, they immediately stated "No, why would I check out those crazies?" I told them that the media and the Tea Party says the same thing as they are about the Tea Party. Perhaps they were all buying into the corporate lie that each other side was nuts. Told them that the majority of the points that they had were the same points the Tea Party agrees with, one is just worded Conservative style the other is worded Liberal.

That is the problem, people have become programmed to hear and see wording and immediately place it into the phrase Conservative or LIberal. One is right one is wrong. This needs to change completely. I would love to find a way to get them both in one place speaking not ranting at one another. The problem would come in when one or two hot-headed individuals would meet face to face.

listen please, let us be clear and honest together :

- either you are intelligent and understand the system and the manipulation of the people and the markets by bankers and corporations (and some politicians sure of course ... ) then you cannot be a tea party puppet ...
- either you have a very basic idea of politics and economics, black and white, and you like Monsanto and BP oil spill without understanding the fundamentals and the consequences, you like some politicians that speak a lot about masturbation and about God who created USA for it to dominate the world etc etc ... and then you can join tea partypotting puppets on a string ....

It is as clear as that !! sorry for me being honest, but if you do not study a little bit well you will remain a average blablablabla citizen like before internet was invented ... now you have it all very clear in front of you !
but I respect you, I respect the people of tea party, I just ask them to study more in detail, not about masturbation etc etc but about corporations, bankers, subprime, fraud, greedy politicians, schizo politicians,
Koch, Cheney, Karl Rove etc etc ....

reply to post by Partygirl


I still have a giant sign that says NO BAILOUTS! So yah, Tea Partiers were on that a long time ago, and MS Napolitano declared us terrorists in Brooks Bros clothing. I do not have sympathy for people who support big govt.

This stuff is all implemented in increments, so it's harder to cut it out. It's like a cancer spreading and it's finally metasticized. Fabian socialism is specifically a type of implementing socialism in increments, that way the people are not so shocked at the loss of personal liberties and freedoms imposed by a Totalitarian system. It's the old frog in the pan syndrome.

Barack turned the heat way up and frogs started jumping.

Originally posted by Partygirl

I hope people will consider this core issue and how powerful such a temporary alliance could be.

If the Tea Party actually showed up,
the kids would all go home to get high and play first person shooters.
Leaving the older generation to do all the heavy lifting again.

The OWS people worship television and youtube videos.
They are there to be seen by their god.
The only great victories that will be
had by the OWS people are
a viral video or two.


David Grouchy

reply to post by Partygirl

And while the Tea party and the OWS have different goals, I would like to think that at least for a moment, they could each focus on the specific issue of the economy.

I'm not sure that you are getting this.

The economy is the issue that OWS and the Tea Party are FURTHEST apart on.

They would be better working together at ending the wars than the economy.


They are in complete opposition in their goals on the economy...not sure how you want them to work together on this.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


Would you care to explain to me how socialism is going to make it all better? I have seen the socialist rhetoric over and over in the Occupiers. Socialism is part of the left/right paradigm, and to support that is folly. We have had socialist programs since the time of FDR, and still the Occupiers want more, and they talk about replacing Capitalism with Democratic Socialism. Oh please don't tell me you understand economics better than Tea Partiers when you espuse socialist alternatives.

And before you give me a hard time on this, I have listened to Ron Paul on this stuff, and even he said that entitlements are not a solution. He even pointed out that a Direct Democracy is against the Constitution, so please get your facts straight before attacking Tea Partiers.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Partygirl

 

And while the Tea party and the OWS have different goals, I would like to think that at least for a moment, they could each focus on the specific issue of the economy.

I'm not sure that you are getting this.

The economy is the issue that OWS and the Tea Party are FURTHEST apart on.

They would be better working together at ending the wars than the economy.


They are in complete opposition in their goals on the economy...not sure how you want them to work together on this.

Ending the wars and ending the Fed Im totally on board with.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm not sure that you are getting this.

The economy is the issue that OWS and the Tea Party are FURTHEST apart on.

Their ultimate economic goals are different, true.

But both are against the current status quo and corruption in general.

The specific issue that they can work on is targeting the unhealthy connection between the world of finance and the government. The Tea Party can bring pressure to bear on the government to sever this connection...since the Tea Party is against government waste, excessive welfare, and unfair appropriation of taxpayer money, they should be able to target (for the moment) the un-capitalist support of BANKS that is draining tax money from hard-working Americans through unfair tax appropriation. Meanwhile, the OWS can put pressure on the banks themselves to stop influencing government in an unhealthy way.

Is it so impossible to conceive of the two working together for a little bit to clear this gunk out of the system? With the specific problem of an unhealthy financial-government nexus out of the way, they should BOTH then be on a more level playing field to pursue their (perhaps oppositional) long-term goals.

I'm not suggesting that they are the same, or that their long-term goals have to be the same. Just that it is in the interests of both to sever the corrupt connection between finance and government.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

Would you care to explain to me how socialism is going to make it all better? I have seen the socialist rhetoric over and over in the Occupiers. Socialism is part of the left/right paradigm, and to support that is folly. We have had socialist programs since the time of FDR, and still the Occupiers want more, and they talk about replacing Capitalism with Democratic Socialism. Oh please don't tell me you understand economics better than Tea Partiers when you espuse socialist alternatives.

And before you give me a hard time on this, I have listened to Ron Paul on this stuff, and even he said that entitlements are not a solution. He even pointed out that a Direct Democracy is against the Constitution, so please get your facts straight before attacking Tea Partiers.

edit on 9-10-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

please first of all : stop talking about socialism this and socialism that !!! let us speak about the system that is called capitalism and that it is the best system in the world !!! ok ???
now the problem is that capitalism has become NEO-capitalism ok ?? ( neo-liberalism ) means it has lost its spirit by becoming a much more concentrated system with very greedy $$$$ corporations that gets more and more power and less and less legislation to control them and their products and services !!! ( thanks to Reagan - reagonomics - and Thatcher of course ! ) ... so this capitalism is not any longer the system that was put in place ! the bankers are playing with OUR money and with subprime foolish crap, they are putting people out of their houses, why ? because also less and less control by the State !!
So, the State has to be very strong to control the system, that has nothing to do with socialism !!!
the STATE HAS TO BE STRONG TO FIGHT CRIMINALITY AND TERRORISM !
the State has to be strong to protect its citizens and their possessions, their money, their health, their children etc etc ... yes the State has to be strong to control the corporations playing GOD with their GMO's and their frankenfood crap corn etc ... nothing to do with socialism, just with capitalism being able to function like it has to be : control, control, control and power to protect the citizen, YOU - WE !!!!

about neo-capitalism : www.marxists.org...

do not be afraid there is the word "marxism" in it, just read if you want to know ...
the contradictions of neo-capitalism ..... very interesting lecture !!

Originally posted by Partygirl

Is it so impossible to conceive of the two working together for a little bit to clear this gunk out of the system?

It's quite easy.
OWS changes it's message to say
"Restore my parents retirement monies!"

Your turn.


David Grouchy

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Lets take a look at what I said.

Heres a pretty picture for you to look at.



But its not jut the US that is efected with the rich gettnricher the poor getting poorr.



Do you think destroying collecttive bargining is just a US thing.

www.connexionfrance.com...

Sarkozy blocked by EU allies
March 01, 2011
GERMANY and France faced a backlash from some of their key EU allies in their drive to establish a European competitiveness pact in return for measures to reinforce the euro-zone bailout fund.

At an EU summit in Brussels, President Sarkozy and German chancellor Angela Merkel proposed limits on business taxes, national debt and pension ages and a scrapping of
index-linked pay rises.

Britain, Belgium, Sweden, the Netherlands and Austria were joined by Poland and Romania in expressing opposition.

Belgium’s caretaker prime minister, Yves Leterme, said he was against any plan that included doing away with index-linked wage increases.

"There must be more economic co-operation, but member states must be left the room to carry out their own policies. Each member state has its own accents, its own traditions," he said.

The Franco-German initiative would see a new inter-governmental body policing fiscal discipline and economic policy harmonisation throughout the euro-zone.

President Sarkozy said Germany and France were working "hand in glove" to defend the single currency. "We want to ensure the convergence of different European economies ... We therefore agree on a structural plan that is designed to respond to the challenges that Europe faces," he said.

It is a world wide Republican war on terror must continue by any means necessary even if it calls on war on middle class and poor.

And how about the war on collective bargaining? The corporations still have thier collective bargaining. The Sam Adams Allinance , Americans for Prosperity, The Cato Institute, Birch Society, FreedomWorks, so on. The rich have thier Lobby groups and Advocacy groups. And they even have groups like the US Chammber of Commerence. No that is not a US government institution they just want you to think it is. And then they even have Payroll leasing companies like the Koch brothers very own Koch Business Solutions, LP ,
Encadria Staffing Solutions and others They allow them to collective bargain across the country for health care, workmans compensation, insurance and many other things. So why do they want to stop the unions from doing the same thing? Because unions are people not rich corporations!

reply to post by JBA2848


Oh right, we must follow European style says the Oracle Barack


The Occupiers are mostly Big govt Nanny Staters as far as I can see. Even the Ron Paul people have to educate them. They are demanding their debts forgiven, the ERA (which failed already every time it's introduced), and a bunch of other socialist stuff.

Then there's the Unions. You clearly are for Big Labor. Big Labor is a tool for communism. Trumka is calling for World economic taxes. Why do you want more taxes? It must because you would be on the receiving end of taxes or you would never call for it.

Get your facts straight. The Chamber of Commerce is for all business, not just big business. Why do the Occupiers continually pile on the hatred for corporations but demand special attention for their own needs?
Oh right, Adbusters hates corporations so you do too.


The hypocrisy never stops with Nanny staters. You criticize corporate welfare but demand Union collective bargaining.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander yes?

reply to post by Partygirl


This wont happen though because OWS refuses to attach itself to any political party in anyway. It's a movement not a political affiliation, is what I have heard OWS say, in different ways.

They have done well to separate themselves from any and all political groups.

I think.... And I think they should continue to emphasize this.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by JBA2848

 

Oh right, we must follow European style says the Oracle Barack


The Occupiers are mostly Big govt Nanny Staters as far as I can see. Even the Ron Paul people have to educate them. They are demanding their debts forgiven, the ERA (which failed already every time it's introduced), and a bunch of other socialist stuff.

Then there's the Unions. You clearly are for Big Labor. Big Labor is a tool for communism. Trumka is calling for World economic taxes. Why do you want more taxes? It must because you would be on the receiving end of taxes or you would never call for it.

edit on 9-10-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

why always talk about taxes here and taxes there ??? in each system you will have to pay taxes, but EVERYBODY has to pay them fairly !! not only the middle class and the poor !!!
understand or no ??
have to explain ?
EVERYBODY ok ? the rich pay nearly nothing, ok ? the 1 % pay less than my retired Mom !
so, taxes always existed, just fight for good distribution and talk about the system in the background !!!

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by Partygirl

 

This wont happen though because OWS refuses to attach itself to any political party in anyway. It's a movement not a political affiliation, is what I have heard OWS say, in different ways.

They have done well to separate themselves from any and all political groups.

I think.... And I think they should continue to emphasize this.

Never mind that MoveOn.org is backing OWS now, and so is Barack, and George Soros.