Mysterious Pre- Inca Scriptures/symbols

reply to post by Gorman91


The kipus are not a language, they work as a "database", the interpretation of the knots were expressed in quechua (runa simi), which was the inca's language in oral form.

In other words, a kipu is what we know today as a "mnemonic device". Pretty advanced by the way and requires great memory. I always wonder how far the incas could go without the intervention of the spaniards conquistadors.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Trueman


idk, I still don't see how that's very advanced. Some of the oldest things made by men suggest similar function, tens of thousands of years old.

That's not to say they were not advanced, that's simply to say you may be barking up the old tree.


My friend, for example, was recently doing research on a local town church in Pennsylvania. He forwarded me an old 1750 script written by a German immigrant, Gottlieb Mittelberger, who documented a priest who found legit stone structures, like in Rome, deep in the forests, with shockingly Hebrew writing on it. An, in true colonial fashion, whatever was found was probably cannibalized by farmers and construction workers to build new stuff. sigh.

What I'm saying is that America is the dusty corner of the world. We now know that aboriginal Australians crash landed in south America long ago, that ancient Gauls found there way to the east coast of the US eons before the vikings, and of course we know of the Asiatic groups who took the great leap forward across the ice. There are Greeks inscriptions in rock in some places, Roman and Greek ships under the Caribbean sea, what may be evidence of Egyptian contact, and definite evidence for ancient Hindu contact.

America therefore has always been the land of the world. Owned by no man, but rather all men, and always a mixing up of knowledge and information. It is a land where it literally rained culture from around the world. I truly doubt anything they made was 100% their own, but then again, what culture is?

You ask where the Inca would have gotten were it not for the conquistadors. I say, you see it all around you. The conquistadors were not something knew. It was just the continuation of a long standing pattern of a washing in and washing out of cultures across the Americas.

reply to post by Gorman91

We now know that aboriginal Australians crash landed in south America long ago,

This is not known this myth appears to arisen from the fact that the peopling of the Americas was by people who had a common ancestor with the aboriginals - not that the aboriginal arrived in SA.

that ancient Gauls found there way to the east coast of the US eons before the vikings,

Nope, there was a short lived theory that some of the stone tools found in Europe faintly resembled those in North America and there are those that believe haplogroup X which is found in Europe and the Middle-east and amongst native American populations got here other than by Asia. However these didn't survive a close look at the evidence

There are Greeks inscriptions in rock in some places, Roman and Greek ships under the Caribbean sea, what may be evidence of Egyptian contact, and definite evidence for ancient Hindu contact.

Yep there are reports of Greek inscriptions but these are thought to be fraudulent at least there is no archaeological evidence of the Greeks, Hebrews and a whole lot of other folks here, No sign of Roman and Greek ships under the Carribbean, no Egyptians and no 'Hindu'. What we do have is the possibility of Polynesian, maybe later Asian contacts -and of course the guys who came down the west coasts, across beringea and the later Inuit who did it the hard way.


There is a difference between the possibility of contact, contact and contact with influence

reply to post by Hanslune


I'm pretty sure they proved it.

www.cosmosmagazine.com...

Though it could be other almost-thoughts. The group itself may have been a couple of generations before the aboriginals reaches Australia, coming from south pacific areas.

Nope, there was a short lived theory that some of the stone tools found in Europe faintly resembled those in North America and there are those that believe haplogroup X which is found in Europe and the Middle-east and amongst native American populations got here other than by Asia. However these didn't survive a close look at the evidence

Not so sure. Because the natives of North East America look damn similar to the drawings of what ancient Europeans looked like.

Just compare Lenepe to Navajo and other places. There does seem to be significant genetic differentiation place to place, not to mention the obvious different susceptibility to disease to different people. If they were the same gene pool, then they'd have the same weakness and immunity.

en.wikipedia.org...

navajopeople.org...

I'm not even sure you could genetically test it, because you wouldn't know if they were from a intermarraige today or a thousand years ago.

Yep there are reports of Greek inscriptions but these are thought to be fraudulent at least there is no archaeological evidence of the Greeks, Hebrews and a whole lot of other folks here, No sign of Roman and Greek ships under the Carribbean, no Egyptians and no 'Hindu'. What we do have is the possibility of Polynesian, maybe later Asian contacts -and of course the guys who came down the west coasts, across beringea and the later Inuit who did it the hard way.

I can show you.

I'll be really lazy and show you the wiki page.

en.wikipedia.org...

But there is the book I mentioned which I am still interested in.

Personally I think John Smith stole the ideas for his crazy religion, but there is documentation of such things by respectable researchers.

books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false

reply to post by Gorman91

I'm pretty sure they proved it.

www.cosmosmagazine.com...

Though it could be other almost-thoughts. The group itself may have been a couple of generations before the aboriginals reaches Australia, coming from south pacific areas.

The theory is that people who were related to the aboriginals may have been in the Americas before the native Americas,

cranial morphology similar to Australian Aborigines

If this is true they had a common ancestor with Australian aborigines. As the article notes he is searching for DNA evidence to support his conclusion.

Not so sure. Because the natives of North East America look damn similar to the drawings of what ancient Europeans looked like.

Ancient Europeans looking Asian??

Just compare Lenepe to Navajo and other places. There does seem to be significant genetic differentiation place to place, not to mention the obvious different susceptibility to disease to different people. If they were the same gene pool, then they'd have the same weakness and immunity.

en.wikipedia.org...

navajopeople.org...

I'm not even sure you could genetically test it, because you wouldn't know if they were from a intermarraige today or a thousand years ago.

You have to use skeleton DNA from pre-columbian times

I'll be really lazy and show you the wiki page.

en.wikipedia.org...

But there is the book I mentioned which I am still interested in.

From your wiki source above

Many such contacts have been proposed, based on historical accounts, archaeological finds, and cultural comparisons. However, claims of such contacts are controversial and debated, due in part to much ambiguous or circumstantial evidence cited by proponents. Only one instance of pre-Columbian European contact – the Norse settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada c. 1000 AD – is regarded by scholars as demonstrated.

Personally I think John Smith stole the ideas for his crazy religion, but there is documentation of such things by respectable researchers.

Do you mean Joseph Smith? Yes he absorbed the theories of the day but then his religion isn't more crazy than all the others!

reply to post by Hanslune

Ancient Europeans looking Asian??

No. But the Easter Coast of the Americas doesn't exactly have Asiatic looking natives to my eyes.

You have to use skeleton DNA from pre-columbian times

True, but do they even exist? And if so, has it been done?

From your wiki source above

That's the problem with new research, takes years to get accepted.

Do you mean Joseph Smith? Yes he absorbed the theories of the day but then his religion isn't more crazy than all the others!

Well, I don't exactly see many religions that talk about having sex with god in eternal bliss, but that's for another topic. There are plenty of logical concise religions that make sense. Even in the Americas.


What I'm saying is that, like any culture, there is a grand diversity of items. And I for one see a lot of similarity between the East coast cultures and that of the western European world, as well as the West coast cultures and that of the Eastern Asiatic world.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Probably decorative or having a symbolic meaning that is lost to us.

I was actually thinking that they may be something used to hang up a coat, necklace or some other kind of accessory like a hooked cane. Like a coat hook, but inverted. Not some mystical writing.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Hanslune
Probably decorative or having a symbolic meaning that is lost to us.

I was actually thinking that they may be something used to hang up a coat, necklace or some other kind of accessory like a hooked cane. Like a coat hook, but inverted. Not some mystical writing.

Well they just must be. As I noted above I would suspect that someone studied/is studying this and it can be found in the existing literature. I'll ask an Andeanist about it on another forum

reply to post by Gorman91

No. But the Easter Coast of the Americas doesn't exactly have Asiatic looking natives to my eyes.

??

True, but do they even exist? And if so, has it been done?

Skeletial material from native americans? Lots and yes DNA have been done and are on going

That's the problem with new research, takes years to get accepted.

Often it is never accepted if the evidence to support it is never found

There are plenty of logical concise religions that make sense. Even in the Americas.

I'd disagree that any religion is concise or logical but as you say that is another subject

What I'm saying is that, like any culture, there is a grand diversity of items. And I for one see a lot of similarity between the East coast cultures and that of the western European world, as well as the West coast cultures and that of the Eastern Asiatic world.

Such as? ...That isn't a relic of the last 500 years of contract - we can leave the Vikings out their impact appears to have limited

reply to post by Hanslune

??

This.

thewolf.t.h.pic.centerblog.net...

Looks more like this.

etc.usf.edu...

Than this.

us.123rf.com... -in-ancient-mongolian-on-his-.jpg

or, for that matter, this.

3.bp.blogspot.com...

Skeletial material from native americans? Lots and yes DNA have been done and are on going

Well then test it. I am very interested, as I can show with a basic profile similarity analysis above.

Often it is never accepted if the evidence to support it is never found

I think it has been found, look above.

Such as? ...That isn't a relic of the last 500 years of contract - we can leave the Vikings out their impact appears to have limited

For the west coast, there are many similarities with India. Dragons, serpents, etc etc. Here's a scan from a book I have:

img215.imageshack.us...

For the East coast, there are many similarities in cultural beliefs. "Great Spirit", and how he is defined, is the most obvious testament to a sort of stoic view of the world. There's also the belief of a world tree, of a tree in the center of a sort of garden, of which one sprout from the dirt made man, and then another made woman when the man was lonely. There's a few other myths I'm sure I could find if I looked into it some more.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by kdog1982
Some sort of decoration?

It doesn't look like decoration to me. I never saw something like that in any pre-columbian or inca culture. Those are symbols in a sort of a secuence. Maybe a record of astronomical observations. Just a thought.

You might be right that it represents some sort of sequence.

It doesn't appear to be language. There are only three symbols shown.

Not likely to be only three symbols in a word made of 13 characters.

Harte

The only way this would work in Hebrew is if you counted some letters as upside down and others as the right way up. Then, you'd have to read the letters in their symbolic meanings from right to left. Very roughly:

"Enter the road to destruction."

However, I must stipulate that I no way believe this to be Hebrew script.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Hanslune
Probably decorative or having a symbolic meaning that is lost to us.

I was actually thinking that they may be something used to hang up a coat, necklace or some other kind of accessory like a hooked cane. Like a coat hook, but inverted. Not some mystical writing.

edit on 11-10-2011 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)

Andean cosmogony and pre - columbian cultures are always full of significance and nothing is set just like meanless ornaments. Everything is symbolic and has a message.

I am sorry and I respect your opinion but I spent half of my life in south america, I visited Huaycan 2 times with my father when I was just a kid, unfortunatelly I don't remember this wall in particular, but I do remember the place. Also visited other similar sites, some of them not even have a name.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
The only way this would work in Hebrew is if you counted some letters as upside down and others as the right way up. Then, you'd have to read the letters in their symbolic meanings from right to left. Very roughly:

"Enter the road to destruction."

However, I must stipulate that I no way believe this to be Hebrew script.

Today on my way home, I was thinking if someone could try to translate it. Thank you so much, even if the result is kind of creepy.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by kdog1982
Some sort of decoration?

It doesn't look like decoration to me. I never saw something like that in any pre-columbian or inca culture. Those are symbols in a sort of a secuence. Maybe a record of astronomical observations. Just a thought.

You might be right that it represents some sort of sequence.

It doesn't appear to be language. There are only three symbols shown.

Not likely to be only three symbols in a word made of 13 characters.

Harte

Exactly, as the kipus, it could be a mnemonic record.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Trueman

 

idk, I still don't see how that's very advanced.

Well, to give you an idea. All the accounts of the Inca's empire were recorded and controlled by that system. Now check the size of that empire to understand how efficient it was :



en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Trueman


But efficiency and advanced are two very different things. Engines, industry, and practically all modernity was more efficient 100 years ago. But they were not more advanced.

Inca built roads. They knew their land. They had a functional government for getting things done. Granted I do not know the how of all these things, but they were clearly efficient. That doesn't make them advanced.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Trueman

 

But efficiency and advanced are two very different things. Engines, industry, and practically all modernity was more efficient 100 years ago. But they were not more advanced.

Today we have big issues thanks to the engines and industries. Most of the world is contaminated with chemicals, oil and radioactivity, certainly we are paying a great toll in exchange for some confort and the wealth of a minority. That's not advanced.

This is advanced :

The Incas had a huge respect for Mother Earth and their developement was always in accordance with nature. At the same time, there were not jobless, homeless or hungry people. Free medical asistance was also available for everybody, education was provided by the government too. A piece of land was given to everybody in capacity to work it, in order to develope the agriculture and self-providing food. They not even needed a constitution, there were only 3 main laws, which many called the "Incas Commandments" :

AMA SUA .- Do not be thief.
AMA KELLA.-Do not be a liar.
AMA LLULLA.- Do not be lazy.

We wish we could have those terms in practice today.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
The only way this would work in Hebrew is if you counted some letters as upside down and others as the right way up. Then, you'd have to read the letters in their symbolic meanings from right to left. Very roughly:

"Enter the road to destruction."

However, I must stipulate that I no way believe this to be Hebrew script.

Today on my way home, I was thinking if someone could try to translate it. Thank you so much, even if the result is kind of creepy.

My pleasure, bro

reply to post by Trueman


Actually waste is not related to advanced. It's related to efficiency. But this is a bit off topic.

But forgive my doubt, but no society is so idealized.


You're forgetting slavery, human sacrifice, and the general poo that humanity produces in packs. Sure you can call the mita system fair, but it's slavery none the less. Just spread out. Not that I'm against it. The Turks has a very similar system that produces some incredible forms of art and industry. Any large scale empires, however, probably had lots of people who found ways around it.

Granted they were far more advanced than the Maya and Aztec in the whole slavery and human sacrifice department, but these things still existed. Because humans do these things