Is wisdom and knowledge from the devil?

I have a question (not sure if it's in the correct thread section mods so please move if needed) about Lucifer the bringer of light.

So what i do know is this..

Some of you will argue that Lucifer is not the name of Satan, The Devil or the Serpent instead you will argue that it is the name attributed to the planet Venus, The Morning or Day Star, has links to Babylon's fallen king or is actually another name for Jesus.

Well im not interested in that really.. what I am interested in is the Light part.. Luci in latin means light..
Whoever Lucifer is or whatever it is, it brought light.. but what is this light that has been brought?

In the garden of Eden, Eve was tempted by the serpent to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Could the fruit on this tree represent the light and if so what is it a metaphore for?

Well here is my ideolgy on the subject and I may well be wrong but i would like to hear what others have to say on the matter too..

I think the light was in fact wisdom and knowledge..
Some may say well what is wrong with that.. wisdom, knowledge are great things...
I would say that wisdom and knowledge is actually counter intuitive to who we were intended to be.

When God created Adam and Eve he told them specifically to not eat the fruit from the tree of (knowledge of) good and evil. Lucifer or the snake said that if Eve did then she would surely see as God does.

I think God intended us to not be thinkers..
I remember watching the movie Instinct with Anthony Hopkins and Cuba Gooding Jnr and i specifically remember the bit where Anthony Hopkins wrote on his cell wall about the thinkers and how they came into the world and made everything bad.

It's the same thing as when Shakespear says to be or not to be that is the question..

So i ask, has Lucifer brought us knowledge and wisdom in the form of light and has that stop us simply being?
Is thinking actually something which takes us away from the spiritual beings we were created as, living inside the mind of thoughts instead of just existing as part of nature...

Is that where we need to get back to find peace and balance with nature and the world?

Sorry for all the questions but its been really bugging me..

Thanks

If Got actually put a tree that could give you knowlege as a deal-breaker in the garden, then He knew where it would lead.

Notice the Tree isn't the "Mastery of Good and Evil", it's merely knowledge.

Somewhere it is said we need to be as children in order to enter the Kingdom.

Children naturally have inquisitive minds. With education comes knowledge and that inquisitiveness/curiosity fades away as the knowledge grows.

God intended us not to be simply 'thinkers' who compare two opposing things and choose which is the right and which is the wrong. He wants our understanding to come from a place of true 'being'.

The Light is only one aspect of this 'being'. The Way and the Truth represent the other aspects.

OP, Are you flippin' serious?!?

Really?

Good god man!

Just when I start to have hope for humanity..
You come along with this absolutely RIDICULOUS crap!

Sad.

reply to post by nakiannunaki


In the garden story of Genesis 3, man was given a directive and choice from God. The fruit of knowledge could be gained by walking with God in the garden (earth), or walking on his own in toil with the land. Satan is the enemy of God and set out to use man as a proxy against God to find the keys to the tree of life. Satan knew he would be unable to get to the tree of life apart from man. God's plan for us was to walk with us in the garden to find His knowledge and eventually have the keys to creation.

When it says that God was walking in the garden and man was hiding behind the metaphorical fig leaf of sin and nakedness, this represented man making the choice to live in pride with Satan. Satan's plan and reason for falling from heaven was that he placed himself above God as creator. God banished him to earth. Mankind becomes his proxy to get to the knowledge that was originally meant for man.

For Satan, this is a jealousy issue. Man was meant to receive knowledge and eventually find a place above the angels. This was the entire reason for Satan's rebellion. What was God still doing when man fell? He was still walking with man, even when man was walking away and hiding. God's plan was for Satan to be the main tool of His teaching to us. Apart from an adversary to overcome, there is no free will. Apart from both good and evil, we are remote controlled vehicles. With the ability to choose, we then develop sentience and the ability to be autonomous as artificial creations. The universe is an image created for us to experience opposites. When we find that love is the key to living in the kingdom of God, we then transpose the mortal coil for true reality.

The following links are keys to understanding this.

The Physics of God

Agro-Bio Linguistics

reply to post by nakiannunaki


As far as I can interpret Lucifer was the name of an ancient Babylonian King type Pharaoh. I think he became the personification of Babylon and synonymous with the Serpent. All I can say for certain that the whole of The New Testament refers to the being Satan - the adversary. It is through Satan's temptation that we were born into sin. Our whole consciousness is derived from that encounter. Yet now we are conscious we must seek the knowledge of GOD and not earthly knowledge. To do that is to be in a dark place looking for light. To dwell in the carnal knowledge of the material universe is ultimately futile; it leads only to destruction as we are now finding out as the earth groans beneath the weight of human so called enterprise.

In my opinion, knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing at all.

Knowledge can be acquired from external sources, like schools, books, other persons or even ATS. Wisdom is the capacity to practice knowledge in a positive way.

So, a bad use of knowledge can be considered evil.

Example : A technologically advanced civilization without spiritual developement will face selfdestruction soon or later.

Of course, it's just my opinion.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by nakiannunaki

 

The fruit of knowledge could be gained by walking with God in the garden (earth), or walking on his own in toil with the land. Satan is the enemy of God and set out to use man as a proxy against God to find the keys to the tree of life. Satan knew he would be unable to get to the tree of life apart from man. God's plan for us was to walk with us in the garden to find His knowledge and eventually have the keys to creation.

This is just your opinion and spectulation. The Genisis story doesn't say anything about the fruit of the tree being available to man through any other means but eating of it. There isn't even any indication that Satan was in the garden at all. We only know of a subtile serpent, who was cursed to crawl on his belly, and that his seed would create emnity with Eve and between his offspring and Eve's offspring. Is Satan crawling on his belly? No, according to the Book of Job, he is walking up and down the Earth. Does Satan have an offspring from his seed? No, Satan doesn't procreate live living beings.

When it says that God was walking in the garden and man was hiding behind the metaphorical fig leaf of sin and nakedness, this represented man making the choice to live in pride with Satan. Satan's plan and reason for falling from heaven was that he placed himself above God as creator. God banished him to earth. Mankind becomes his proxy to get to the knowledge that was originally meant for man.

Again, this is your opinion. The Bible says nothing of Adam and Eve's choice to live in pride with Satan. On the contrary, it says that they were ashamed.

Satan is not mentioned in the book of Genisis at all. Satan did not need mankind to be his proxy to steal knowledge that was meant for man. This is speculation and opinion. Not Scripture!

For Satan, this is a jealousy issue. Man was meant to receive knowledge and eventually find a place above the angels. This was the entire reason for Satan's rebellion. What was God still doing when man fell? He was still walking with man, even when man was walking away and hiding. God's plan was for Satan to be the main tool of His teaching to us. Apart from an adversary to overcome, there is no free will. Apart from both good and evil, we are remote controlled vehicles. With the ability to choose, we then develop sentience and the ability to be autonomous as artificial creations. The universe is an image created for us to experience opposites. .

How do you come up with this stuff?

We know that God is jealous, because he says so in the Bible. We have nothing from Satan or about Satan being jealous.

God planned for Satan to trick us, so that he (God) could teach us? That's some after the fact reasoning that isn't biblical AT ALL!

Choosing, the ablility to choose, is what makes sentience develope, but we are artificial creations? Where do you get this nutty stuff? There is no free will without an adversary? Poppycock! I can choose to have my eggs scrambled or over easy, or no eggs at all and have cereal for breakfast. There is no adversary in my breakfast choice.

WOW, the universe is an image created for us, to experience opposites?????? How do you know? Where is that in the Bible?

We are remote controlled vehicles, then why should we be judged and sent to hell, if we have no free will and just robots being controlled by either God or Satan?

When we find that love is the key to living in the kingdom of God, we then transpose the mortal coil for true reality

The only love that is expressed in the Old Testament is sexual love, not Godly love, but Godly war, murder rape and robbery are abundant.

Sounds to me like you just make it up as you go, to make it fit when you are confonted by intelligent questioning concerning this fairy tale.

reply to post by nakiannunaki


Isn't it obvious? If god wanted us dumb he wouldn't have used the smartest living land animal on the planet (Monkey,Ape) as a template for mankind.

Also isn't it fair to say devil and god are one and the same? If they weren't god would have destroyed the devil along time ago!

Maybe I'm missing something here. Take it easy on me I'm new.

reply to post by kalunom


Yep.

Kids know happiness, sadness, and full throttle. In other words they let it hang out. When they say they hate you they mean it(thats good)...when they say they love you...they mean it (thats good). No hiding, totally open ready to discover and express.

in Genesis when Dad was creating he called it GOOD. Never once did he say its good and evil. Besides evil is Devil without the D.

We should also view this from perspective of the times the Bible was written;

Very Few could read or write. This was controlled by religious and ruling classes, education was dangerous and could lead to democracy and liberty. If the average person could be taught to believe knowledge was dangerous, and lead to loss of their soul or chance at life after death....it would be far easier to control the masses and live off their ignorance.

So for a few thousand years followers of Judeo-Christian Religious systems were taught that seeking knowledge was evil, and could lead to the destruction of their soul......until the invention of the printing press.

After the printing press, education became widely available, and people began to throw the chains of slavery, both literally, economically, and spiritually, off themselves. Freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness became an institution, and created a Nation.

Today, the invention of the Internet is the next great social revolution after the printing press. The Internet provides tools for people to once again take back their god given rights as human and spiritual beings. Education and knowledge is only dangerous to those that wish to control what you think, and what you believe.


I would also recommend reading the Bible in a difference manner; research every single word as it is written in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek ( more literal and original meanings) This will shed much more light on what the Bible actually is saying, instead of what Middle age priest and Kings of Europe wanted you to believe. For example, in original Hebrew Bible does not actually say the tree of good and evil, but rather the tree that discerns what works, and what doesn't.
There is NO morality inflected in the original language of what the tree represents, it is just simple plain knowledge. It was the organized church that created the appearance that morality ( good and evil) is what the tree represented.

The Book Of Enoch is another good reference point for this time period.

reply to post by Ahmose


This is not ridiculous, this is exactly what the Bible tells us. "God" didn't want Adam and Eve to know what was going on outside the Eden, he wanted to keep them dumb, along comes the serpent (whom ever he was) and tells them that if they check out the "tree of knowledge" they will know about the things that "God" is keeping from them. The serpent cared for the Humans and didn't like that "God" wanted to keep them dumb and ignorant, he illuminated them (bringer of light). Once "God" learned that they were not blind to the truth he decided to discard them and sent them to Earth with the rest of the earlier humans, giants and what ever else he created. There were others, you know. Also, you should study other scriptures that were written way before the bible that talk about this same story and lots of the things that are in the Bible.
If "God" is all knowing, why did he leave the "tree of knowledge" there if he knew that they were going to check it out. Why didn't he get rid of this slick snake if he knew that he was not to be trusted? To me it looks like they were set up and they were not as perfect as he thought, so he got rid of them.
I rather listen to the serpent than an all merciful God that curses me and wants to burn me for eternity just because I don't like him and all the evil things that he does.

reply to post by ariel bender


The book of Enoch is a great read, especially when he talks about what he sees when he is given "The grand tour". The thing is, the reader needs to know that back in those days they could only describe the things that they saw based on the things that were available in that time. They wouldn't be able to say "laser beams of different colors" they would say "pillars of fire of different colors".
I am convinced that God was a scientist and Adam and Eve were his favorite pets/experiments, the snake was one of the workers or one of his sons that thought of Adam and Eve as equals and he liked them so much that he decided that the charade had to end.

I believe the mystery involves two different forms or sources of light. In mysticism there is often times mentioned; "The inner light".

Then there is the outer light - the light that is captured by the retina. The outer light source is temporal as its source is solar. All of the knowledge that is acquired through this Luciferian (light-emitting) source is by means of discrimination of various light reflections. Mysticism also mentions a parallel between the dream state and the interpretation in the brain of external light received by the retina.

For the dreamer the dream state is an undeniable reality i.e. it is not recognized by the consciousness as a dream state while the dream is in progress. The evidence of this are the emotional reactions to the dream and the consequent reactions in the physical body - activation of sweating and other glandular secretions as well as acceleration of pulse etc.

The dream is only recognized as a dream when the consciousness has shifted to a state of awakening. But this state of awakening is also dreamlike in a sense because it is dependent on the interpretation of light from an external source - a source which is temporal.

The dream light may appear to be internal light but it is light acquired and trapped from the outside source and stored within.

The fact that t.v and video has become such a dominant and influential reality in modern human civilization is not surprising. In a way the light is a food or a drug that is very impressionable and open to authorship and manipulation. But in reality it is nothing but variations of red, blue and green light spectrums.

Mysticism declares that one is not aware of one's own eternal reality - an eternal light which has no beginning or end because one becomes blinded by the outer light, mistaking it for the only reality.

Gnosticism claims somewhere that the chief Lord of the Archons falsely believes that he himself is the architect of the universe as he does not possess knowledge of the inner light. In this way he is deceived and is also a master of deception.

The parable concerning the eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge may refer to the fixation on the external light as the only reality and the knowledge gained from attraction and repulsion to the conjured imagery as being "the knowledge of good and evil" - of morality etc.

Science is the religion of the objective and religion is the science of the subjective.

reply to post by nakiannunaki


Wisdom isn't from the devil. He's a created being, he cannot be the originator of those things.

reply to post by nakiannunaki


Perhaps satan is the light bringer because if you can resist his temptations you "see the light"

Just a thought i guess...

If satan represents everything that is bad in the human condition, or the darkness... He is there to show the darkness. Understanding the darkness, can bring you to the light...