#OWS, Chew on This : Real Reason College Should Be Free

You are not a beneficiary of your elder's or children's past/future effort. However, we must agree on one thing, college should be free.

Not because it is a right, but because it isn't worth the money. The world is different for people like you, I understand. Please understand that you may have difficulty relating to this, but the mega rich didn't get wealthy on the knowledge passed on from colleges. They learned enough to get a certificate, a certification. The real magic happened after hours, on their own.

College doesn't look the same to these people, and it's really merely an inconvenience if they even go. If you want social equality, or justice, or insurance then look no further than yourselves.

Either way, a war approaches, and I fear there is no winner. Those that stand for socialism against those that stand against, it doesn't matter. Either side requires a pseudo-dictator to satisfy the hopes and aspirations of those that would ride coat-tails or place their collective and largely unachieveable goals on the back of one man and not themselves.

Both sides have been co-opted, and when it comes to war, everyone loses. The only real winners are those playing both sides, and even they lose their souls.

Just remember, there's nothing you can do about it. The battle was over long ago, the war is not over but in it's last leg. It is not a war between good and evil, freedom or slavery. It is an unveiling, a power grab by those who only care about more power. Money is not an option, debt is a tool and not an absolute for these people. Debt is the money of SLAVES, and make no mistake, we are all slaves to invisible chains of some sort or another.

Someone asked me why I don't leave room for hope, and I realize that it would appear to be that way, but that's a fallacy. The real hope is that people realize the game is rigged and stop playing. We don't need to start anywhere else other than love, eternal love. Love for our enemies and love for our neighbors all the same.

Nothing needs to be bombed, no legislation needs to be passed, no businesses ransacked, no cities burned. No regime change is needed, it's just a choice.

Who pays the teachers and the electric bill then? The american tax payers. Any way you look at it college services need to be paid for it cant just be free. I just graduated my pre pharmacy classes and was accepted into University of Arizona College of Medicine to study for my pharmaceutical career. Maybe instead of complaining about how hard it is to move up in the world you should accept the world is more complicated than everything just being free and hunky dory. Over six years my college experience will cost me about 83,000 minus several grants. The average pay to start for a graduate pharmacist is 95,000 annually plus a 10 to 20k signing bonus and nearly all pharmaceutical companies pay 50 to 60 percent of your student loans.

For the love of god people, don't listen to this guy. Go to college


Also don't hate me for being part of big pharma! I'm not gonna be the one withholding a cure or medicine that could potentially save lives. I'm just gonna be the distributor

I'm willing to pay $3 a month for my Chase Checking account, but not $5 for Bank of America. It's not because it's $2 more, it's because I can do text banking, and more cool helpful features.

College isn't worth the money it costs, and it shouldn't presume to charge as much. College doesn't give you an edge, it's not competitive. Real movers and shakers don't need college anymore, not that they ever really did. It's not a springboard either for your average person, it barely gets them a job and they still are stuck with the debt for at least a decade on average.

What's the real solution, then? Free college? No, I was making an accusation at the absurd, and I feel your didn't understand it so let me clarify, college man...

Colleges need a wake up call, and they need to realize that the same old tired regurgitation isn't going to cut it in this new era where information is accessible. In the age of the internet and computers, colleges should be improving with leaps and bounds, but instead you aren't getting more bang for your buck, you get less.

It's fine if you don't understand. If you do, what do you have to say to that?

reply to post by sbctinfantry



The real reason college should be free is because it is valueless. Not that learning real knowledge is valueless. But most students would be better off doing something they like rather than accumulate debt for something that is worthless.

Very clever reasoning. No one needs college to get an edge on life. Ya i should definitely be able to go be a pharmacist with no education and no experience. And the engineers and scientist didn't need to go to school to learn, they already knew everything that they needed to know for their jobs or they got the info from the internet like everyone else.

Do you want your surgeon to tell you he never went to college? That he learned everything he knows from the internet or everyday situations. And then have the anesthesiologist give you the wrong stuff and you surgeon cuts into you while your still awake but paralyzed.

Ya no thank you I'd prefer the important things be run by well educated people...not the guy that says he didn't need to go to college cause he has the internet.....

Reply to post by douglas82391

What makes the surgeon degree worth the amount of money paid to get it?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by douglas82391


yeah all those harvard and yale graduates have done such a bang up job

as it stands right now in american there of millions of americans smarter at the moment than all those morons with degrees ruinning this country who have never gone to college.

It just amazes me that you people actually think this world would be better off without college! I guess the world will always need thinkers like you. Someone needs flip the burgers for the successful after all....

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by douglas82391

 

What makes the surgeon degree worth the amount of money paid to get it?

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Uhhhhh 300k a year seem worth it to you?

Originally posted by douglas82391
Very clever reasoning. No one needs college to get an edge on life. Ya i should definitely be able to go be a pharmacist with no education and no experience. And the engineers and scientist didn't need to go to school to learn, they already knew everything that they needed to know for their jobs or they got the info from the internet like everyone else.

Do you want your surgeon to tell you he never went to college? That he learned everything he knows from the internet or everyday situations. And then have the anesthesiologist give you the wrong stuff and you surgeon cuts into you while your still awake but paralyzed.

Ya no thank you I'd prefer the important things be run by well educated people...not the guy that says he didn't need to go to college cause he has the internet.....

Use discernment. I am saying the majority of students pay for something that is bare minimum way over-priced for what they get out of it. And for many the education part IS valueless.

Albert Einstein dropped out of college. I dropped out of university after 1 year and learned everything i know because i wanted to know it and wanted to learn it. There is no use going to college and sitting through classes that you don't pay attention to or hate. Even more idiotic is believing you should PAY to do this. Is that smart? Tell your kid to go in debt so they can sit in a class they have no interest in? That is stupidity.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


Colleges for the most part teach by rote, just like High School. If you don't toe the Professors line you get a bad grade and they still get your money.

The Sciences are about the only education that asks you to question things.

You are right though in my opinion. We are in a war....but it is a war that I really hope the shooting never happens. A guy can dream, can't he?

After 30 years in the Army, I have totally had it with shooting at people. Truth be told, was never fond of it in the first place. But I'll do it again if it means friends and family live.

Originally posted by douglas82391
Very clever reasoning. No one needs college to get an edge on life. Ya i should definitely be able to go be a pharmacist with no education and no experience. And the engineers and scientist didn't need to go to school to learn, they already knew everything that they needed to know for their jobs or they got the info from the internet like everyone else.

Do you want your surgeon to tell you he never went to college? That he learned everything he knows from the internet or everyday situations. And then have the anesthesiologist give you the wrong stuff and you surgeon cuts into you while your still awake but paralyzed.

Ya no thank you I'd prefer the important things be run by well educated people...not the guy that says he didn't need to go to college cause he has the internet.....

If you want to do a service job, go ahead and go to college. That's all it's good for, to make you a mindless drone. Do you believe that all the advancements in the medical field are only possible, or even remotely possible, because of college?

Again, I don't expect you to understand.

If you want to be an innovator, what this country needs to be great again, then you need personal drive and responsibility... not college.

What industry leader has ever said, "Thank goodness I went to college."

I want to change that. I want colleges to train for the future, not regurgitate.

Education is a human right that should be provided by the government through tax payer money, this i can agree on. That is exactly the case with k through 12. However if a single individual wants to further their education it should be their responsibility to fund the reception of such services. Personally i don't care that I'll be in debt for a few years. I'll have to pay 83,000 or so but the very minimum i will make after 40 years is 4,000,000 dollars. Now think. The average person that doesn't go to college makes about 20,000 a year. Congratulations you were smart enough to avoid several thousand dollars of debt. Now are you smart enough to figure out how much 20,000 over 40 years is (you wouldn't need that calculator with a higher education)? It's 800,000..... I'll stick with my college degree over getting lucky any day. Remember thats the very minimum. Pharmacist get an average of 95,000 a year to start! By the time i have 5 years exp i will be making 150,000 to 200,000 a year. 6 years of my life dedicated to college and a few dozen grand and me and my family are set for the rest of our lives. Food for thought

I'm grateful for my education, but it would help to actually get a job in my field. Everyone wants 5 years experience.
Thats after 20 plus years in general workforce. Thanks for nothin


And Mrs Obama gets vacations in Paris while spewing anti American Marxist garbage anc complaining that Americans aren't paying for her Harvard education. Something is really wrong with all this.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by douglas82391
Very clever reasoning. No one needs college to get an edge on life. Ya i should definitely be able to go be a pharmacist with no education and no experience. And the engineers and scientist didn't need to go to school to learn, they already knew everything that they needed to know for their jobs or they got the info from the internet like everyone else.

Do you want your surgeon to tell you he never went to college? That he learned everything he knows from the internet or everyday situations. And then have the anesthesiologist give you the wrong stuff and you surgeon cuts into you while your still awake but paralyzed.

Ya no thank you I'd prefer the important things be run by well educated people...not the guy that says he didn't need to go to college cause he has the internet.....

If you want to do a service job, go ahead and go to college. That's all it's good for, to make you a mindless drone. Do you believe that all the advancements in the medical field are only possible, or even remotely possible, because of college?

Again, I don't expect you to understand.

If you want to be an innovator, what this country needs to be great again, then you need personal drive and responsibility... not college.

What industry leader has ever said, "Thank goodness I went to college."

I want to change that. I want colleges to train for the future, not regurgitate.

So if you would like to analyze quasicrystals, render point-set topology in 3D, and then build single atom nano-structures as the end result, you just need some impressive gear and highly knowledgeable friends... With a little extra time on their hands of course.

I agree with the free though. It's an issue of where as a society we place resources.

A college or university exists for the purpose of teaching people to think and to learn.... not to get a better job.

Now, a degree is held in such esteeme that it allows you to get a better job maybe... but to get post secondary education for the want of a job... go to tech school or a community college.

After High School..it is your choice as to what you do with your life, so college is an option.. not a right or a neccessity. There are plenty of people that never went to college making damn good money as mechanics, contractors, carpenters, auto body work, electricians... hell, my uncle is 85 and makes good money on the side doing odd electrical jobs... and didn't finish high school.

Universities and colleges are there to preserve and encourage intellectual thought, arts, philosophies, ideas and ideals... you said that you didn't pay attention and slept through the classes...after you paid good money for them,,, whose fault is that?...YOURS.

I got a degree in Commercial Design... I graduated about the time computers kicked in really well and wiped out my career choice as a money making option. So, I entered retail management and business....went to night school and learned real estate and investing...and I now have a 50acre farm, work as an asst manager, and have a place at the coast to have fun at... because I learned to "learn" at college...critical thinking...self dependence...the power of the individual...you have your life in your hands...stop blaming others. that is what Cain meant by "If you are not rich, you've only yourself to blame."

So no, college should not be free... it is an option in life..not a necessity nor a right.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
A college or university exists for the purpose of teaching people to think and to learn.... not to get a better job.

Now, a degree is held in such esteeme that it allows you to get a better job maybe... but to get post secondary education for the want of a job... go to tech school or a community college.

After High School..it is your choice as to what you do with your life, so college is an option.. not a right or a neccessity. There are plenty of people that never went to college making damn good money as mechanics, contractors, carpenters, auto body work, electricians... hell, my uncle is 85 and makes good money on the side doing odd electrical jobs... and didn't finish high school.

Universities and colleges are there to preserve and encourage intellectual thought, arts, philosophies, ideas and ideals... you said that you didn't pay attention and slept through the classes...after you paid good money for them,,, whose fault is that?...YOURS.

I got a degree in Commercial Design... I graduated about the time computers kicked in really well and wiped out my career choice as a money making option. So, I entered retail management and business....went to night school and learned real estate and investing...and I now have a 50acre farm, work as an asst manager, and have a place at the coast to have fun at... because I learned to "learn" at college...critical thinking...self dependence...the power of the individual...you have your life in your hands...stop blaming others. that is what Cain meant by "If you are not rich, you've only yourself to blame."

So no, college should not be free... it is an option in life..not a necessity nor a right.

edit on 6-10-2011 by AlreadyGone because: spelling

I've known plenty of people in real estate and investing. Some had multiple properties attached to Advanced Option ARM's. I hope for your sake the 50 acre farm is paid off, you keep your job, dividends hold, and property taxes don't force insurmountable debt. Fortunes can change in a blink of an eye. Perhaps you'd turn your attention to the top .001% with 12 cents on every dollar instituted well before you were born...

Or don't blame anybody but yo' bad self, and elect Cain. Grab a tent just in case.

reply to post by Americanist


45 acres of the 50 acre farm is paid off... so is the place at the coast. Mama didn't raise no fool.

The college loan got paid off early by working extra and saving wisely. The investments made 12 % last year even in this economy.

And I have a BS in Art...anybody can do this...BUT...and it is a big BUT... it takes hard work, goals, early, early mornings and late evenings... many a day I started work at 3am and didn't stop until 5 or 6 pm.... my friends used to call me the "Jamaican" because i had 4-5 part time jobs...everything to weekend pull ups on Lil Debbie Snacks to working at a garden center...and I picked up landscape jobs there on the side.

I have started over 3 times, 15 years ago, I was living in a barn...now, my horses live in a barn. But I still stay busy and look for opportunity at everyturn...tommorrow, I will work at my regular job for 10 hours, then I will go and buy 5 piglets on a deal for 20 bucks a piece or 100 dollars...then get them fat and either sell them for 100 dollars apiece or eat them and save the money on groceries. I also sell firewood and goats...and turnip salad... and if you buy a load of firewood you get a free bag of greens to go with it... what a bargain!

I am not an elitist...I am not stupid either...anybody reading this can do what i have done... hard work, see a need in your neighborhood and fill it...be creatuive... go to your local community college and see what FREE courses or subsidized courses are offered...a lot of counties pay for these business courses to encourage economic developement... don't be afraid of consequences..."Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Americanist

 

45 acres of the 50 acre farm is paid off... so is the place at the coast. Mama didn't raise no fool.

The college loan got paid off early by working extra and saving wisely. The investments made 12 % last year even in this economy.

And I have a BS in Art...anybody can do this...BUT...and it is a big BUT... it takes hard work, goals, early, early mornings and late evenings... many a day I started work at 3am and didn't stop until 5 or 6 pm.... my friends used to call me the "Jamaican" because i had 4-5 part time jobs...everything to weekend pull ups on Lil Debbie Snacks to working at a garden center...and I picked up landscape jobs there on the side.

I have started over 3 times, 15 years ago, I was living in a barn...now, my horses live in a barn. But I still stay busy and look for opportunity at everyturn...tommorrow, I will work at my regular job for 10 hours, then I will go and buy 5 piglets on a deal for 20 bucks a piece or 100 dollars...then get them fat and either sell them for 100 dollars apiece or eat them and save the money on groceries. I also sell firewood and goats...and turnip salad... and if you buy a load of firewood you get a free bag of greens to go with it... what a bargain!

I am not an elitist...I am not stupid either...anybody reading this can do what i have done... hard work, see a need in your neighborhood and fill it...be creatuive... go to your local community college and see what FREE courses or subsidized courses are offered...a lot of counties pay for these business courses to encourage economic developement... don't be afraid of consequences..."Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."

I enjoyed your life's story, but surely you must realize not everyone is capable of running on 4 and 5 hours of sleep, nor do all stomachs and small intestines process Zebra Cakes - HFCS with the same amount of efficiency. And that's just for starters, so prepare to count your blessings. Had your energy levels fallen off, eyes became blurry, and abdominal pain persisted... You might've found yourself with diabetes.

A few years later the abdominal pain worsens, you have trouble with your weight, and that skin of yours stays itchy. You're lucky to get 2 hours of sleep at night. Come to find out it's pancreatic cancer. Subsequently, you have a whipple operation only to get stuck with the tab. You were dropped from coverage via some loophole pre-existing condition. Now you're forced to take a HELOC on the 45 acres to pay the hospital back. It's just enough to knock out the bill, but you're facing an extra monthly expense, failing health, and very few chances to put some work hours in.

I feel for you. No honestly, I feel for the people who fill these shoes. The one's with torpedoes aimed at them. The point... Novels don't necessarily translate across the board. Your perspective is just that.

There are careers that require higher education and there are those that really should not require it. If you are going into medicine or something like that, yes, you need higher ed. However, I have found in my job searches that my two years of college aren't worth crap anymore. Nearly everything making decent pay requires a bachelors.

One thing I have learned in my years in the workforce and higher ed is that most schools prepare you to do a job one way, but the real training comes from the job itself. Mining is big in my area, but now you have to get a certificate to get hired. A large part of my friends I grew up with had parents who were miners. Most of them had a high school diploma. What can a person possibly learn in a classroom about mining that they wouldn't learn better on the job as a trainee. My guess is that this system lines pockets somewhere. A lot of experienced miners who were laid off when the mines closed, are having to take classes to learn what they already knew from years of experience. this is stupid on so many levels.

Why do I need a bachelors to be a pharma rep? I have medical experience. I probably know more about respiratory meds ten years after college than the still pimply- faced new college grad with a bachelors in business. Plus, I have sales experience from my countless retail jobs and I have a solid, proven work ethic. This means nothing anymore. It's all about that expensive piece of paper. Frustrating!