Venus Has An Ozone Layer!? No way!

Fantastic! But does this mean there's life on the planet? Because that's what's believed to be the reason for the ozone layer on earth. But disappointingly, nope, not according to the astrobiologists.

Venus Express made the discovery while watching stars seen right at the edge of the planet set through its atmosphere. Its SPICAV instrument analysed the starlight, looking for the characteristic fingerprints of gases in the atmosphere as they absorbed light at specific wavelengths.

The ozone was detectable because it absorbed some of the ultraviolet from the starlight.

Ozone is a molecule containing three oxygen atoms. According to computer models, the ozone on Venus is formed when sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide molecules, releasing oxygen atoms.

Source

Nonetheless, it is interesting that we keep discovering things about our fellow neighbouring planets that pretty much was unthinkable before. Or was this unthinkable? Nah, probably not, I seem to remember some conspiracy theorists touching on the subject some years ago.

Here's specifically what they say about life not being the reason for it:

Theoretical work by astrobiologists suggests that a planet's ozone concentration must be 20% of Earth's value before life should be considered as a cause.

These new results support that conclusion because Venus clearly remains below this threshold.

Originally posted by Droogie

Ozone is a molecule containing three oxygen atoms. According to computer models, the ozone on Venus is formed when sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide molecules, releasing oxygen atoms.

.




ok, so now sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide?

Am I missing something?

I thought that was the cause of our global warming?

And we're closer to the sun, so..

Shouldn't we make more CO2 to replenish the ozone layer?

reply to post by rbnhd76


Did you just say we're closer to the sun than Venus? You might want to read up on that, I can't really comment on the rest, but it seems interesting... I bet there's some sort of life that would blow us away existing on Venus

This could well prove that we could sustain life on venus
congratulations on the find my friend

reply to post by rbnhd76


mercury venus earth mars? what mathematical equation is telling you 3rd is 2nd?

Originally posted by rbnhd76

Originally posted by Droogie

Ozone is a molecule containing three oxygen atoms. According to computer models, the ozone on Venus is formed when sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide molecules, releasing oxygen atoms.

.

ok, so now sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide?

Am I missing something?

I thought that was the cause of our global warming?

And we're closer to the sun, so..

Shouldn't we make more CO2 to replenish the ozone layer?

Closer to the Sun than Venus?
LOL
LOLOL
Do you know anything about astronomy?

Originally posted by thebelieverufo
This could well prove that we could sustain life on venus

congratulations on the find my friend

Not quite no, read the article.

Originally posted by thebelieverufo
This could well prove that we could sustain life on venus

congratulations on the find my friend

Means nothing of the sort. 93 times the surface pressure as earth under a thick heavy 96.5% CO2 atmosphere with 220 mph winds at the equator that keep the 244 earth day long Venus day around 900º F with near zero water trace. I think what the OP meant by a breakdown of CO2 is the heat sublimates CO2 from the surface rock and hydrothermal outgassing, and it rains sulfuric acid.

in my opinion we are descendent's of planet Venus, such marcians will be descendent's of planet earth. Peace.

reply to post by Droogie

Is life on Venus possible? Yes.

The clouds on Venus are thought to be the planet's best bet for life because the temperatures there are cooler than at the too-hot surface, and water vapor has been detected in the atmosphere.

"The temperature and pressure there are entirely congenial to the survival of certain types of microbes," said researcher Chandra Wickramasinghe of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University in Wales. "Microbes are known to survive in similar environments on Earth."

www.space.com...

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by Droogie

 

Is life on Venus possible? Yes.
www.space.com...

Interesting find. But it doesn't convince me that your "yes" is correct.

Wouldn't that be life "above" Venus, rather than life "on" Venus?

When I found out the surface of Venus is generally hot enough to melt lead, I found that a little discouraging for the prospects of finding life ON Venus.

What you would have to do is measure the UV and other forms of radiation in the atmosphere at the altitude where liquid water is found, so see if it might be survivable. And the lack of any discussion of UV or other forms of radiation is a gaping hole in the article you linked to. It would certainly be a factor in any life potentially carried on the solar wind. However that article also discusses other problems with the assertion about life in the clouds, so I don't think the answer is an unqualified "yes". At least I haven't seen any proof life even above Venus is possible, even after reading your link.

I'm siding with the expert panel on this one:

www.space.com...

while the potential for life in the clouds of Venus can't be ruled out, the expert panel gauged this possibility as extremely low.

I think that answer is more accurate, than the answer of "yes" that you suggested.

Why so skeptical?

Cloud droplets, however, are formed of extremely concentrated sulfuric acid. Now toss in for good measure a high flux of solar ultraviolet radiation that floods the cloud deck.

At least they mention the UV. While it's possible life might evolve a tolerance to sulfuric acid, it seems unlikely that atmosperic life can evolve such a tolerance to UV. It would necessarily have to be small as in microbe size, and would therefore be relatively unprotected. Before Earth had its ozone layer, life on Earth escaped UV in the oceans, not an option on Venus.

So the OP article is about an Ozone layer on Venus, wouldn't that provide protection? The article says this:

Its ozone layer sits at an altitude of 100 km, about four times higher in the atmosphere than Earth's and is a hundred to a thousand times less dense.

A hundred to a thousand times less dense Ozone layer is unlikely to provide adequate protection. So I think the expert panel has sufficient reason to be skeptical of a claim that life is possible.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Key word is "possible". So would you agree that life is or is not possible on Venus? I also consider the atmosphere to be part of the planet, so yes, "on" Venus.

reply to post by Devino


I think there's a difference between saying there's a possibility, like you did, and saying there's an extremely low possibility, like the expert panel did.

While both statements contain the word "possibility", they convey different meanings to me.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


UV can penetrate the thick atmosphere unimpeded, it's the reflective heat that the CO2 atmosphere insulates, so the temperature high in the atmosphere of Venus cools at altitudes over 50 km where it is thin and any trace of water there is on its way to the vast cosmos.

I love it when 'trace of water' is in an article, like a billion time less than earth atmosphere which is 79% nitrogen to begin with.!!!

So no, I'll place my smart money on the black, that there are no floating microbes in the atmosphere of Venus basking in the 140º F comfort circling the planet every 4 days in the high turbulence.

Originally posted by Droogie
Fantastic! But does this mean there's life on the planet? Because that's what's believed to be the reason for the ozone layer on earth. But disappointingly, nope, not according to the astrobiologists.

Venus Express made the discovery while watching stars seen right at the edge of the planet set through its atmosphere. Its SPICAV instrument analysed the starlight, looking for the characteristic fingerprints of gases in the atmosphere as they absorbed light at specific wavelengths.

The ozone was detectable because it absorbed some of the ultraviolet from the starlight.

Ozone is a molecule containing three oxygen atoms. According to computer models, the ozone on Venus is formed when sunlight breaks up carbon dioxide molecules, releasing oxygen atoms.

Source

Nonetheless, it is interesting that we keep discovering things about our fellow neighbouring planets that pretty much was unthinkable before. Or was this unthinkable? Nah, probably not, I seem to remember some conspiracy theorists touching on the subject some years ago.

Here's specifically what they say about life not being the reason for it:

Theoretical work by astrobiologists suggests that a planet's ozone concentration must be 20% of Earth's value before life should be considered as a cause.

These new results support that conclusion because Venus clearly remains below this threshold.

Yes! there is life on Venus, Mars, Moon, Earth I don't care if you believe me, but I know there some out there that know what I'm talking about

Sorry Military Complex

reply to post by Human4life


But everything you quoted suggests otherwise...?!

Oh sorry, didn't recognize you used the special sarcafont.

We need to make that font red or something.

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

UV can penetrate the thick atmosphere unimpeded, it's the reflective heat that the CO2 atmosphere insulates, so the temperature high in the atmosphere of Venus cools at altitudes over 50 km where it is thin and any trace of water there is on its way to the vast cosmos.

I love it when 'trace of water' is in an article, like a billion time less than earth atmosphere which is 79% nitrogen to begin with.!!!

So no, I'll place my smart money on the black, that there are no floating microbes in the atmosphere of Venus basking in the 140º F comfort circling the planet every 4 days in the high turbulence.

I thought most life was thought to emerge from hot tidal pools on earth? I could be wrong, but that sounds a lot live Venus' atmosphere with wind speed and conditions for life.

Also, just because there is life doesn't mean we understand it. What of a microbe that lives for only a few hours, or days, in the atmosphere and then dies from the UV and falls to Venus? Wouldn't the accumulation terraform the planet of billions of years in some way? I think that we are being pretty close minded about life on other planets, we don't dare stretch our conceptual models and open our minds. Our planet was terraformed by microbes and other forces, remember?

Do I think life is on Venus? I think that the universe is alive, to be honest, all aspects of it down to the electron and beyond in some form or fashion. I think that we define life, and we can not define life until we find more of it elsewhere. That is like living in the ocean and saying all H20 is liquid.

Although I'm stupid in regards to science, I do find it interesting that the sun is not able to break up carbon dioxide molecules on earth, but very much able to do so on Venus and Mars. Or is this process happening on earth, but it is so insignificant that it can't help our ozone layer in respects to mending the damage done?

reply to post by sbctinfantry

Exactly my line of thought. If someone were to ask me if life existed on Venus I would say very unlikely as far as we know, following what I think Arbitrageur's point is.

This wouldn't convey all of my thoughts on this question though as I subscribe to the Panspermia Theory. It is my belief that if there is a chance that life could exist anywhere; up in the clouds on Venus, underground on Mars or in the ice on the polar craters of our Moon it will find its way there. I think we are beyond the theory that life has to start and evolve on each planet all by itself as though they were isolated bodies cut off from the rest of the Universe.