American Dominance on the World Stage

I don't beleive it's a question of whether anyone can challage the USA. Currently, and for the forseeable future, they can't. The question is should anyone bother. We have a 40 year technical lead on China, and most (not all) of the Euopeans won't stand up to defend their freedom, let alone someone elses. Russia's population and military are shrinking. Who's left, and more importaintly, why should they even try to obtain parity with the USA?

40 years? You do realise that its taken China only 18 months to 'make up' a full 50 year lead the US/western world had on computer processors? 18 months to achieve what we have in 50 years. Somehow I dont think it would take them 40 years to catch up in stealth design, 5 maybe, if they wanted to do it. Its a lot easier when someone else has done it, even if you dont have the plans in front of you, it at least gives you the idea thatsomethings possible.

Utilizing someone elses computer design is a whole lot easy than copying the design for bleeding edge weapons systems. Then you have to build the infrastructure to build the parts needed to build the weapons system. They most likely couldn't even design the infrastructure in 5 years.

Originally posted by GD
and most (not all) of the Euopeans won't stand up to defend their freedom, let alone someone elses.

And where the hell do you get the balls to make such an utterly insulting and ignorant statement?

Come over here right now and I'll defend my freedom, my honor and my good name as a Belgian who will fight to the bitter end to defend himself, his family and if needed his country and the world.

And I'm not alone.

Everyone in europe is more then prepared and willing to fight for their nation, for europe and for the world.

I ask again, where in blazing hell did you get that idea?

He said MOST, not all Europeans...
I would have said "SOME"...

I think it's the Anti-France mentality showing...

Belgium Rocks!


The whole 18 months vs 50 years with China...Now thats farfetched..
I think you can BUY that knowledge, if the right administration is in office, here in the US..

France, Germany, Russia, Spain... That's where I got that idea.

And I said most. Not all. I'll take Belgium of the list as soon as you commit troops to help secure Iraq's freedom.

I have the utmost respect for the Brits and Pol's who stood up for the Iraqi people.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by GD]

Oh for gods sake, GM, get a clue.

What the hell is the point of being dominant and ruling the planet when everyone hates you and would love to see your entire country and people wiped off the map? whats the point of going around and blowing up countries for no real purpose or ends or mission, when you gain nothing? So what if we are dominat? That doeswnt equate to happiness or a good healthy country.

Remeber the saying, its very lonely at the top, and Bush has sealed our fate. if the world did not disdain us before, the hate our friggin guts now. What you gonna do, blow up every country that hates us? good luck.

For the record, Europe is already wrestling with internal problems of thier own, and they did defend thier freedom. You obviously forgot that before we got suckered into WW2, the British and the Russians were violently hammering the Germans from both ends, throwing every thing they had to defend thier homes.

This war has nothing to do with freedom. Americas freedom is as stake not from the outside, at least, not YET, but from the inside. Since there no freedom or ideal here in Iraq to defend, there really isnt any moral purpose for the war.

i could care less about any middle eastern country and thier "freedom", and i sure as hell do not wish my commerades to get sent over to get salughtered and not be able to fight a real war.

Europe has not gone to war for a while...why? Well, if you pick up a history book, youll see in the past 100 years, they had two REALLY nasty wars that ended up wiping out over 100 milli0on people, destroying landmarks and irreplcable things of value, and costing them thier dominance in the world. Needless to say, they arent too keen about racking up more bodies if they aint gotta.

And on that note, Mr patriot, obvious, we seem to have a memory problem. It was called Vietnam. We sent over the course of that disaster, over a million soldiers, 60,000 who came home in pine boxes. Were we fighting for freedom? Hell no! We werent fighting for #, and we still have a whole generation mentaly scarred because of that abomination. is that what YOU want? is that your brand of patriotism? ios that the measure of our power, how many Americans we can stuff into body bags for some other country thats gonna do whgatever it wants?

I suggest you take a trip to Dc and check out that big black marble wall of over 60,000 names on it, and then see how much our "dominance" means to you in Iraq. And then take a trip to arlington where all the WW2 vets are buried. See the difference. 200,000 Americans died in ww2 for a purpose. We have something to show for their deaths.

Show me what he have gained from that big black wall.

Take a hint from Teddy Roosevelt. Speak softly, but carry a big stick. And whip out that big stick and goi medieval on fools only when you are DAMN sure thats the only option left.

Pick up a history book. We have also faught somenasty warrs. I love liberals. I truly do. You just don't get what this is about. This is another big nasty war. It was started by Al Qaida and is far from over. These people want to destroy your way of life. And you want to let them. You will let them by buying into the liberal presses assesment that the Iraqis hate us, when all polling within that country show that they overwhelmingly approve the liberation. You'll buy John Kerry's crap that we are fighting the war incorrectly, when you can't even see the bigger picture.

Your "comrades"? Did you serve? I did, and would gladly have given my life to ensure that no more 8 year old Iraqi's would be raped. To ensure that people would not have their tongue cut out for voicing their opinion.

Liberals...

Originally posted by GD
France, Germany, Russia, Spain... That;s where I got that idea.

And I said most. Not all. I'll take Belgium of the list as soon as you commit troops to help secure Iraq's freedom.

So you solely found your idea of "willingness to fight for freedom" on whoever joined the war in Iraq?

Belgium for one has fought in Golf War 1 and every other conflict and peacekeeping mission. The current Iraqi invasion we didn't join because we didn't and don't agree with the reasons and pretence that was given to start the war on Iraq.

You are now saying that people should have joined the war on Iraq because it was "to secure the Iraqi freedom" while it was totaly not started for that and still isn't about that.

The said reason to go to Iraq was because Saddam supposedly had WMD's. People in Belgium, Spain, France and other parts of europe held million person marches in protest to anyone going there for "the WMD threat" because we saw how propostrous the information regarding it was(wich is now proven and admitted by both British and US goverments).

So now they make people like you believe they went there to bring freedom to the iraqi people and you think other county's don't go there because they are against freedom.

We will fight for our freedom and we will fight for the freedom of the US people if the US needs our help.

And about Belgium helping in Iraq, although we didn't want to goto Iraq, we still DID help the US getting their equipment and a good load of their soldiers there. You should've seen the traffic chaos we went trough and delays in railroad traffic when all that stuff got shipped trough here.


ps. just read your last post ... dude, Al Queda??? FFS you just believe everything they tell you don't you!!
Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Queda, they are now fighting against the US yes, BECAUSE THEY BLOODY INVADED A MUSLIM COUNTRY!!


EDIT: I retract myself from this conversation, it is not a discussion, its the views of a missinformed american that has an even more narow view of the world then George W. Bush himself.

The motto of this forum is Deny Ignorance, GD, hereby I deny YOU to piss me of by making utterly insulting statements to both people from europe and as I just read, alot of people from your very own country.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by thematrix]

See, that's the problem. We did need your help to fight this war against terror. You choses to ignore us. That's fine. We'll do it without you. WMD's were found. A chemical weapon was deployed against a platoon of Marines. It's good press to hate America, and you all follow along like sheep. You don't understand that this is a threat against your freedom, as well as mine. If these terrorists were to bring down the US, where will they from there. Europe. You have a huge Muslim population. It would be far easier. And, if 911 had happened against Belgium, you could bet your ass that we would have went to war to defend you. Our goverment and our President understand that this is a war of National survival for the USA and all that hold similar values dear. Including Belgium. I hope you don't have to have the same wake up call we did.

BTW, I fought as a US Marine in the Persian Gulf war.

Yeah, it's easier to cut and run than accept the truth...

[edit on 27-8-2004 by GD]

OMG 40 years!! are you that damn arrogant you think the chinese are 40 years behind the US military!!

Don't you understand that with all of today's technology out there and China being a country that's economically integrated with the west that it's only a matter of time before they catch up??

They can already build 4th generation fighters from the help of other nations while only a matter of years ago they could'nt??

u guys all seem to forget, that it was the USA that saved europe in BOTH world wars, thats right BOTH, france almost got run down but the usa came in, and in ww2, the british couldnt do it alone and needed the USA. now ofcourse they hate the usa. everyone always hates the most powerful. its the way it is, but why do u always bring up Nam, one mistake, the only war we ever lost-revolutionary-civil-ww1,ww2, mexican/spanish, (wrong order i kno), coldwar, korean, gulf war, now this iraq war. now, out of 10 wars, we lost one , which was a mistake to begin anyway. the only real threat to the usa now, is north korea, who is threatende to use nukes-which would mean retaliation and an end to half the world- (radiation). China althought i boasts the largest army, is not agressive now, and dont have the logisitics to bring it to threaten the usa, and remeber, more men, means more targets for our missiles...not all americans are ignorant and think we can take the world- but we (the intelligent ones) dont appreciate it wen people keep bashing the usa as a weakling who cant handle a war against another power, (and always refer to vietnam).

Originally posted by drfunk
OMG 40 years!! are you that damn arrogant you think the chinese are 40 years behind the US military!!

Don't you understand that with all of today's technology out there and China being a country that's economically integrated with the west that it's only a matter of time before they catch up??

They can already build 4th generation fighters from the help of other nations while only a matter of years ago they could'nt??

They can't build fourth generation fighters. They are deploying them in what 2010, 2015? And it's a question of infrastructure. They have to design and build the infrastructure to build these weapons systems. That itself, would take years.

Yep, I did my time. Also in the middle east. And my experience there told me thats the last place we want to make friends with.

Would I give my life so some 8 year old Iraqi doesnt get raped? Well, mseeing how we Funded and supported Saddams rapist regime, and now that hes gone, American soldiers are raping Iraqi 8 year olds, well, no.

There are causes that are real. This aint one. id suggest you really study the people you think we are "liberating".

Sometimes, people want dictators. "Freedom" whatever your idea of it is, seriously, inst a one size fits all. If you understood the Arab mentality, you would know democracy and Freedom are the last things these people want, especially when it comes from the west.

This aint the French resistance were trying to help. You seem to forget, that despite differences, Europe and US shared common ancestry and general ideals of right and wrong. The general consensus there was that the Fascists nazis were a blow to human decency and basic human rights as the west sees them. Those people that the Allies liberated were welcomed, because they shared basic histories, common religons, cultures, and ideals.

But the Middle east is not Europe. They are not Europeans. They do not have the same value system and cultural values we do. Far from it. Thus, they have no desire for the west and our Freedom. They think its perfectly acceptable to stone adulterers, chop off thieves hands, ect.

They dont want our freedom, and I never have and never will have any desire to give my life for any people who would sooner mutilate my corpse and spit on it and everything I hold dear. I was born one year before we evacuated Saigon, But I look at the damage the war did to my uncles.

So the answer is no. Unless the Chinese decide to overrun Europe, or the middle east unites and threatens to nuke the west, I have no desire to liberate them from the brutality they support and cherish.

ImAmerican, i can only say, you are not an American, you are a total Moron who needs a history book.

you are a fuc king id iot, u think i need a history book? what is wrong with u
? jus becuz they are middle eastern they dont deserve freedom? my god u are ignorant, the only ones who dont want the freedom are the brainwashed ones who were too terrified of it, or didint know what it was becuz they lived under dictatorship, u think the cozy americans and europeans are the only ones who deserve it? if it wasnt for us americans, your free europe wouldnt exist, so why shouldnt the innocent people in the mid east, deserve that same freedom-why dont U read some history..

People said the same thing about Japan after WW 2. That turned into a pretty successful democracy. Societies have to learn democracy. Some folks get it a little quicker, but they all go through growing pains.

I challange you to give me evidence that any American soldiers are raping children in Iraq. In making that statement, I would ask you with what unit you served, where you served (in the Middle east) and what was your MOS?

I know and work with many muslims. I have fought beside them. I have fought to defend them. They DO have the same values as we do. That was a statement of overt prejudice.

GD,

Well, as my Marine recruiter said, not everyone who wears a Marine uniform is a smart man....

But yeah, nobody can challenge the U.S. Yet. Thus far, the only people capable of challenging America is America itself (wink wink).

But to insult other nations is pretty low, I must say.

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
u guys all seem to forget, that it was the USA that saved europe in BOTH world wars, thats right BOTH, france almost got run down but the usa came in, and in ww2, the british couldnt do it alone and needed the USA. now ofcourse they hate the usa.

r.u.s.s.i.a.

Russia had to fight. We came in the name of freedom, and friendship.