Biggest conspiracy in history, Climate change denial.

Climate change is real but man made climate change is not.

The Earth goes through natural cycles of warming and cooling and has done so for millions of years.

Unless you'd like to believe that it was modern man who caused the overwhelming heat of the early planet or that deodorant use caused the first of the Ice Ages.

I believe the global warming is:

1- A reality
2- NOT man-made
3- Caused by external cosmic events (such as a change in the Sun's behavior, the Photon Belt, the disappearing of the heliosphere (it is slowly fading away), and so on...)
4- It is a natural cycle on Earth to see the temperature go up and down ( See here )

Yes, humans are messing with our Earth, putting out pollution in the air and deforesting her. However, we must not under-estimate her power. I do NOT believe we are changing dramatically the temperature on Earth, I believe it is all part of a bigger cycle (nothing is static, everything runs in cycles...).

If global warming is caused by the augmentation of CO2 in the atmosphere like it is assumed by every supporters of the de facto theory, tell me why the ice cores prove us without a doubt the augmentation of CO2 ALWAYS come AFTER an augmentation of temperature? In other words, why does an augmentation of temperature cause a CO2 increase, and not the other way around?

Just look at the ice cores analysis:

Such as this one
Or this one, which is more focused on present times
Or this one

Now let's look at a research that ONLY uses peer-reviewed date: Global Warming: A Closer Look At The Number

Using peer-reviewed researches, this research proves beyond all doubt that:
1- CO2 is responsible for 3.618% of all the greenhouse gases contribution to global warming
2- Water Vapor is responsible for exactly 95% of the same thing
3- Humans contribution to the release of CO2 is only 3.225%
4- Therefore, human contribution to global warming is 0.28% (adding all the greenhouse gases together, not just CO2)

Then we can say that, yes, humans are warming the Earth by 0,28%, assuming that the other 99,72% are constants, which we all know is utterly false!

So, to sum it up, yes, we are putting poison everywhere on Earth, destroying the bio-diversity, and so on. However, data CLEARLY shows that humans are not fully responsible for global warming.

I think I have made my point, it's good to be back on ATS!

reply to post by chiefsmom


Nothing damaging about removing fossil fuels, which for all we know could be a vital part of the Earth's cycle. Nope! Nothing wrong with that at all.

reply to post by dillweed


so, I can make a nice living fighting the big oil companies and the big coal companies? would love to know how that works

Climate change denial?! I don't think that anyone with half a brain denies that the climate is changing. The debate, and I use that word very loosely, is centered around what is causing it. I for one believe that climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena caused by various solar cycles over different periods of time, some of them occurring over several hundred thousand years, which obviously is immeasurable by man. The other naturally occurring factor in climate change is the relation of the Earth to the sun in orbit, as well as the slight shifts the Earth makes on it's axis over time, again completely immeasurable by man. Man Made Climate Change is a myth, created by those that wish to control man and man's behavior for power, political gain, and most of all financial gain. To think that my SUV is somehow warming the Earth is preposterous, and even laughable. The Earth is vibrant and ever-changing, and it heals and renews itself on a regular basis. It is arrogant to think that man has advanced so far that we actually have the means to change the temperature of the Earth. That is ridiculous. Perhaps you should look into the other side of the argument, starting with the solar cycles mentioned above. Then move onto the fact that the Antarctic ice shelf is actually growing (on it's west side). The east side is melting, but the growth on its west side is so much that it offsets the east side's melting. After that, you should look into the research that has concluded that the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere is being caused by trapped CO2 in the ocean being released due to the warming of the ocean water by our current solar cycle. I have a feeling that your mind is already made up, and that is unfortunate. Here's one more question for you... if climate change, or whatever the newest, hippest term for it is these days, is happening just as Al Gore says it is, and if the sea levels are soon going to rise in such a way that half of the land on Earth is swallowed up, then why did Al Gore purchase a $9 million sea side estate in California last year? You would think that he would head for the mountains, far away from the danger that he claims is just right around the corner. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Regardless of what we do, Until there is a technology shift we will continue to pollute the earth, not just Co2 but all pollution. Everything we see around us has a pollution offset EVERYTHING.

I believe we are on the verge of that technology shift, when it happens loads of jobs will be lost I can see compete automation of industry, Population spread in our solar system. more wars and mass deaths due to power struggles of ownership of space the pollution of space anywhere we inhabit. It will go on and on and on,

The question is how long does this stage of humanity have left. Nothing lasts for ever.

Now that the Global Warming thng busted up so bad, the Bilderbergs had to come up with something else as the base of their global tax they want so desperately. Now it's a "financial transaction tax", which is being sported by the Occupy Wall Street gang.

reply to post by Legion2024


Population spread in our solar system? You mean you think there will be space colonies?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


yeah I do. and not to far off in the future.

Somebody might have already commented this but we are actually entering into another ICE AGE. I live in Seattle and so I welcome the fact that our atmosphere may be becoming more dense. This way when the climate drops considerably we'll have a greenhouse effect that can potentially negate it. I mean look at the mini ice age during the middle ages and the impact it had on the population. It caused the Vikings to stop colonizing North America among other things...

Originally posted by UniverSoul
people i understand what your saying, that climate change has been going on before humans.
but
if there is already a natural process, why alter it if we dont know the effects?

stop arguing about this people
if someone brings up global warming
just say:
it is irrelivant, the real issue is the fact we could be using efficent renewable energy but we dont because of a corporate monopoly on oil.

another vote for:Is it "changing?: hell yes
our "fault": not hardly...
canwestop it ?: No.Adapt or die.

We could be using alternatives if we seriously cut back our need/demand and I don't see that happening society wide. except on a minimal personal level. Quote j.H. kunstler:" we are entrenched in the"happy motoring culture".I.e. We want to run our cars off soybeans and corn when we need to stop commuting120miles /day.

I am somewhat still on the fence about the issue of man made global warming. Because global warming is really not as cut and dry of an issue as many here would have you believe. There are many more problems and different aspects connected to this issue than most of the people who deny it's happening are willing to acknowledge.

Those who are saying that mans influence on global climate change is minimal are not recognizing some of the other impacts that are associated with our use of fossil fuels. Deforestation (destruction of the rain forest), strip mining coal (permanent destruction of the land and habitat), and the environmental hazards associated with oil extraction (BP and other spills, building pipelines) has had. They are not recognizing the impacts that burning fossil fuel has had on our health. And they are not recognizing that it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

Regardless, I am still opposed to a carbon tax on individuals. I do think that some are trying to take advantage of this issue monetarily. We all already pay gas taxes, vehicles taxes, smog checks, license fees and other fees and taxes associated with our use of gas powered vehicles and electricity. However I am not opposed to a carbon tax on the industries that use the most resources and pollute the environment.

I agree with the comments made by UniverSoul. The real problem is not about the temperature of the planet. But what are we going to do about the direction we're headed by relying on fossil fuels. I bet most people would be quite shocked at the amount of oil used to produce just one steak dinner in your favorite restaurant.

There is a good documentary called "Collapse" by Michael Ruppert that I recommend people watch.

Collapse Part 1
www.disclose.tv...

Collapse Part 2
www.disclose.tv...



Anyone who says to just go about your business as usual without any concern for the climate or the environment is completely blind and heading towards that proverbial cliff.

The main organizations involved with the studies of global climate change are the IPCC and the USGCRP

If you really want to research this problem. It's a lot more than just if the planet is getting hot or cold.

reply to post by Atzil321


It is not by the principals of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world. The natural systems we hold so dear are doomed with or without us, and the save a whale attitude most hold is suicidal. It is only by mastering and controlling these natural systems that humankind will endure. The Earth should be used for the single purpose of supporting human life, and population of a trillion should be our goal. Only this forcing will push us to the stars and require that we completely master our eco system. Envision a planet wide city and the technology and resources required to achieve this goal.

The Earth is a single point failure for humankind and unless we lose the save a whale attitude we will not survive. Necessity is the mother of all invention, and struggle is the father of all things. If we follow the save a whale logic and keep the human population low then we will be actively repressing our full potential and maybe even dooming ourselves to extinction.

Try as we might the notion of humans hurting planet Earth is entirely fictional. Consider that 98% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct, and consider why. There are countless events in Earth’s history that make the entire history of human impact seem trivial.

Mother nature loves man because it is man that may carry the torch of life to other worlds.

I most certainly know we have an impact, but it is not the end of the world, and if a few species have to give way then that is just how the cookie crumbles, friend. When and if it becomes a matter of survival the problem will be addressed. We are in it for the species after all.

The real problem you face here is that you have data like the vostok ice core data below, that says we do not have a clue!

Any problem like AGW should be met with the technology to correct it, but we have no idea if the fix will hurt more than the problem.



Also people see short term trends like the record heat this summer. These events have nothing to do with AGW and are related to particulate polution from record fires in siberia and other parts of the world and even volcanic events. When these same events turn into record snow fall people call "Bull #".


JFK said
I am sorry to say that there is too much point to the wisecrack that life is extinct on other planets because their scientists were more advanced than ours.

reply to post by Atzil321


I totally believe in climate change.!!

I just don't believe the human race has anything to do with it.

Climate change is definitely real. And it will definitely occur if a large volcano erupts. Or a large asteroid impact. Not if I drive my car.

Originally posted by amaster
Q) Is Climate Change real?
A) Yes.

Q) Are Humans the cause?
A) NO!

Q) Is Climate Change a naturally occuring phenomenon thats been happening since the beginning of time?
A)Yes.

Q) Is there ANYTHING humans can do to stop it?
A) Not a chance in HELL!!

Q) And would they do anything even if they could?
A) Not likely.

reply to post by chiefsmom


What he said , well done. common sense, earth has been here what, 4.5 billion years, I think the earth is quite capable of looking after itself and follows cycles rather than any effect that we have caused, the models are proving to be incorrect, so we do not deny, we disagree with the stated causes of it, this is happening on a solar system level, are we responsible for this too?

Global cooling I mean warming, I mean climate change, I mean Global climate disruption is just a tool to get people to stop focusing on the environment and start buying hybrid cars. Or buy from carbon neutral companies, or buy carbon credits, or from companies that have those buy two and we'll plant a tree deals going on(they get the boy scouts to do at .40$ a sapling and pocket the rest of the donation money).

The government also uses global warming to tax us. It couldn't be a better scam for corporations and the government. They get to fake their way through environmental people or make a joke out of it complete. They also get to profit off it without ever really having to do a thing. Oh and they profit off it big, nothing sells more than fear.

WORLDS GONNA END QUICK GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!!!

For the governments angle, well simply they have their cronies call any opposition the equivalent of holocaust deniers and kill any opposition that could help us get off oil in the name of protecting the environment. In turn the government rakes money in from gas and energy tax and the oil companies are still ranking in a profit.

people keep saying they think its natural
so if there is already a natural process, why add to it?
its like having a nuclear reactor in working condition and then dumping tonnes of plutonium in it.

one guy said oh i believe it comes from a volcano, but not from my car (similar to most comments)
well if it comes from your car and it comes from a million other peoples cars..do you have a volcano or a million and one blind people who cant think past the near future