Those libyan `freedom fighters` are nothing more than thugs!!

You know the last couple of months we`ve all seen the news reports, these rebels screaming `alah snakbar` and firing their machine guns carelessly into the air like they were toys!
These people were made out to be like brave knights, almost like robin hood -- brave warriors with the peoples` interest at heart in freeing libya!

Well you all saw the thread a week or two ago about week rebels are beheading anyone they think thats loyal to gadaffi without even a trial.
There is also this report as one of many, of the rebels slaughtering families and literally anyone without any reason



Just to show how disorganised, and what lawless cowboys these people are, they dont even have respect for their own commanders.
Take a look at this

uk.news.yahoo.com...

``Some fighters openly disobeyed orders. In one incident, an officer from Bani Walid was heckled by troops from Tripoli after he tried to order them to stop randomly shooting in the air as they celebrated seizing a mortar from Gaddafi forces.

"You are not my boss. Don't tell me what to do," one of the Tripoli fighters snapped back at him.``

Basically shame on the media for praising these people and making them out to be heroes!
As soon as i saw those idiots firing their weapons meaninglessly in the air, i knew then that they were bad news.
Real heroes dont do that - look at scenes of the israelis winning back israel after the 6 day war, or the liberations at 2nd world war, there was smiles, hugs and humility all round.

These rebels are thugs who are taking advantage of the situation to pick up a rifle and slaughter people for the fun of it.
Mark my words, the next people who come into power in libya will be no better than Gadaffi!

reply to post by admiralbiggles


Don't be too surprised. The term "Freedon Fighters" is a catchphrase used by the media to accomplish 2 things:

a) Emotion based words to draw your attention to the newscast, and

b) Emotion based words to get you to be in favor of sending troops over there to "help out."

I'm glad you see through it, and I can only hope that other people do as well.

I was commenting this from May, good to see people are finally waking up.

The continues deals that foreign companies make with these thugs sickens me. I wonder how much money is already stolen from the Libyan people by western countries and the aid of these criminals.

We haven't seen the end of this and it's going to be a very sad slaughter.

I agree that they are a group of undisciplined "kids." Discipline comes to most people with age and maturity, but in the military, discipline must be instilled immediately if a force is to reach its potential strength. Not to mention that without commanders nothing will get done.

That is why all this crap is going on...these murders, etc. Basically what you said in the OP. So the question now is, how do the officers instill discipline in an army gone crazy? If I were in command, I would put together a group, as large and well armed as possible, of only LOYAL, disciplined soldiers, and start making the rounds and taking guns away.

This is the point of basic training in any armed force, and this is a big part of the reason basic training involves many things that break you down not just physically, but psychologically as well. Break them down, and build them back up. That is the only way discipline can be instilled in these people, and I am not aware of any such training regime for these rebels. So the future doesn't look that bright for them imo.

That does not mean however that they aren't dangerous. They are more dangerous now than they would be with commanding officers whom they obeyed. In a proper army you have an entire organism working toward one goal, and as such you will accomplish any set goals much more easily and quickly, and with less bloodshed.

However when you have an army with 300 different groups, just as an example, who have 300 different goals, the result will always be chaos and many unneeded killings. I guess the rebels aren't smart enough to realize that.

Rather than attempt to build a cohesive unit, these morons would rather say "you're not my boss, you can't tell me what to do." I mean really? What do we have here, 10 year olds with guns? Ridiculous.

yes, also randomly firing bullets in the air is dangerous, dont forget what goes up must go down!
it makes me so annoyed to see these dirty idiots screaming allah akbar firing machine guns and mortars randomly in the air, like its a game!

reply to post by admiralbiggles


Well so far 13 Mass Graves have been found, all linked to Ghaddafis regime in addition to the 1,200 - 1,700 in another mass grave.

The TNC is a temporary government and when its all said and done the lines will become clear and we will see where its going.

Right now its still chaos.

reply to post by Xcathdra


right and the source of the claims ?Al jazeera or western propaganda media? not credible...


call me when you have other sources. We know what USA did in my homeland Serbia .

Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

right and the source of the claims ?Al jazeera or western propaganda media? not credible...

call me when you have other sources. We know what USA did in my homeland Serbia .

Actually its been confirmed by the Res Cross / Red Crescent.

Is it impossible for Ghaddafi to do any wrong in your eyes?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Red cross provided ammunition supplies to Russian bolsheviks during the russian civil war.Read Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton.

so like how can western NGOs and media be trusted.

reply to post by admiralbiggles

It seems that Adbusters and Pulse magazine have no problem promoting the rebel causes.Let's not forget they also promoted OWS.
Link to Adbusters:
Source

Link to Pulse magazine:
Source

During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.

Originally posted by USAisdevil
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Red cross provided ammunition supplies to Russian bolsheviks during the russian civil war.Read Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton.

so like how can western NGOs and media be trusted.

Which has nothing to do with 13 mass graves in Libya that Ghaddafi made. Check the UN website as well, specifically the ICHR who has also confirmed the mass graves, bodies, and who was responsible for them. Check the stories coming out where defecting soldiers have taken people to these mass graves. The mass graves are very real, they contain bodies, and they all were creeated under Ghaddafis "benevolent" rule.

reply to post by Xcathdra


bah,its propaganda BS from Western NGOs and media as usual and these NGO work with Govs to destabilize others like NED.as for UN they are spineless pussies owned by the West. We serbs had first hand experience of it.

Check the stories coming out where defecting soldiers have taken people to these mass graves.

or more like media outrightly fabricating it? or loyalists trying to save their skin

Do you not think that these people are mercenaries? Trained by coalition forces maybe in Iran and Afghanistan?

It seems to me if you want to go to war with someone but don't want to put your own boots on the ground, then you train cheap labor, brainwash them, and set them loose in a country to destabilize it, then you can put in your puppet regime and then send in your commerce people to steal their worldly goods, their oil etc. Cover them with bombing runs and in this case, where you have too many civilians, send in the cowboys to try to get them to evacuate so you can carpet bomb.

Having cheap mercenaries to carry on your strategic Imperialism, is probably not a bad idea when your own country is morally, ethically, and financially bankrupt, don't you agree?

(I know Canada is not financially bankrupt, we are just poor morons, who are easily played and powerless snivelers, but I mean the rest of the coalition forces.)

reply to post by USAisdevil


Uhm.. ok

Propoganda is funny....

The bodies are real, the locations are real, the people who were executed and put in those mass graves are real, and the fact it was done by the Ghadaffi regime is real. Are you related to Ghaddafi or something? Since day 1 you have been an ardent supporter of his regardless of what occurs, offering up excuses in his defense.

Can Ghaddafi do no wrong in your eyes?

reply to post by Rocketman7


So what exactly are you trying to argue? NATO using mercenaries? Or are you commenting on the mercenaries Ghaddafi has brought in to kill protestors and anyone who doesnt support him?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Frankly ,Xcathadra I am not convinced either .Other posters do have a point that libyan rebels are mercs and thugs of Al Qaeda. And USAisdevil has raised a very valid point again ,particularly on Red Cross. Red Cross is not as innocent as it looks and yes a very issue about it was that it was founded by Skull and Bones. Even HRW ,another NGO lied a lot about Russian-Georgian war of 2008.

www.smokershistory.com...

Those mass graves could be executions by libyan rebels also.After all truth is the first casualty of war,XCathadra .there is a lot of propaganda coming about libya from western and pro-ghadafi sources.So what is truth cannot be said. The tactics of NGOs claiming mass graves is old and was used in Serbian and other wars too. If you are Christian at heart,stop supporting Al Qaeda in Libya .

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


I get the points they are trying to make however its being done by ignoring facts. ITs one thing to say the mass graves are nothing but propoganda, but no evidence has been offered up to support that claim, other than the typical western media lies routine.

Secondly its almost an impossibility that rebels could have executed these people based on decomposition and the fact they were digging out bones in some, and not complete bodies (flesh / organs / skin / etc).

There are reports that soldiers who went over to the NTC showed them where the mass graves were.

Since we are discussing propoganda / hypotheticals, then it could be argued that Ghaddafis forces did in fact kill and dump bodies into mass graves for the sole intent of blaming the Rebels.

Comparing Red Cross actions from the 1915s-20s to this is like comparing apples to panda bears. To me it just looks like people are grasping for straws. I say this because after all the back and forth, the side who says its propoganda has not provided any sources to support their calims.

If the mass graves were caused by the rebels dont you think Ghaddafi and his government would be screaming from the top of their lungs to use it in their favor? To date, that has not occured, which leads me back to my conclusion.

Its one thing to not trust a source... ITs something else entirely when the whole Western everything is just ignored
not because of false reporting, but beause certain people just hate the US / Western standards and values.

Seeking the truth is the top goal and we should continue down that road, even if it means the answer we find is not the one you are hoping for.

reply to post by Xcathdra


to be frank ,Western media has cried wolf too much and this is the reason why western media is being totally regarded as propaganda.

digitaljournal.com...

read the part on the abu salem massacre mass graves .Tell me if NTC is consistently lying and crying wolf ,how can it be trusted?

As for arguing with USAisdevil forget it ,Arguing with Slavs is like arguing with a brick wall.They view most western media with total suspicion and is understandable because of western expansionist designs to destroy the slavic world.

Anyways I will be awaiting more evidence on the Red Cross investigations ... Thank you.

Comparing Red Cross actions from the 1915s-20s to this is like comparing apples to panda bears. To me it just looks like people are grasping for straws. I say this because after all the back and forth, the side who says its propoganda has not provided any sources to support their calims.

Seriously ,how do you expect those who have been at the recieving end of western imperialism to believe anything from western media.As for Red cross actions its a blight and does raise some questions on what their mission is?

Historical events is more of evidence for them slavs and it will be impossible to convince them .They view Western media and NGOs with total suspicion .

Update:
Found research on alternative media ,but the 13 sites are not mass graves as stated by western MSM,but yes bodies of people have emerged.

Mass graves of recent vintage have indeed been found — 13 of them confirmed by the Red Cross, or “about 20” found by the government, according to the Transitional National Council’s humanitarian coordinator, Muattez Aneizi. More are being found “nearly every day,” Mr. Aneizi said.

“Mass” is slightly misleading, however, because the largest actual grave site found so far, in the Nafusah Mountains of western Libya, had 34 bodies. In many of the others, the victims numbered only in the single digits. Many are not even graves, but rather containers or buildings where people were executed and their bodies left to rot.

The Red Cross counted only 125 dead from the 13 sites it confirmed, with 53 of those found in a hangar near Tripoli’s airport. While the rebels may not have died in the numbers their side has claimed, there is no doubt that many were killed, often horribly, after having been taken prisoner. As the Qaddafi government collapsed and its die-hards fled from Tripoli and other strongholds, such war crimes happened in many well-documented cases. They just did not happen in many thousands of cases, judging from the available evidence.

There has been no explanation of the basis for either the council’s tally of 30,000 to 50,000 dead, or the number preferred by the new government’s minister of health, Naji Barakat, a more modest 25,000 to 30,000.

At the Ministry of Health, Mohammed al-Ghazwi, who leads a newly formed Committee on the Dead, charged with confirming death tolls from the conflict, was reluctant to give any numbers out. “Every day we find another grave, so I can’t give you a specific number,” Mr. Ghazwi said. “But it’s about twenty-five to thirty thousand, like the minister of health said.”

Asked how many of those were based on documented cases of dead found so far, he said they were many fewer, but he could not give a number. “It’s very hard to tell the real number because during the Qaddafi time they hid all of them,” Mr. Ghazwi said.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

then again 125 dead is not a mass grave ,but yes war crimes against humanity it can be considered.
mathaba.net...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

So what exactly are you trying to argue? NATO using mercenaries? Or are you commenting on the mercenaries Ghaddafi has brought in to kill protestors and anyone who doesnt support him?

I don't know. Are you ok with America hiring killers to go in and shoot civilians in a foreign country?

Keeping in mind the lines between good and evil are smudged when America and her allies instigated the riots there by breeding unrest in the first place in order to start this whole thing. You know, put a few agents in the crowd of peaceful demonstrators, shoot at some guards, and thats all it takes from there on in.

Isn't Ghaddafi another one of America's puppet princes in the first place?

It wasn't long ago that bands like I don't know Beyonce and maybe Black Eyed Peas and who knows who all else were there entertaining them for the big money. I'm not sure who it was that was there but it was not uncommon.

Something tells me this is not about democracy this is about something else.

So when the people who rise up actually win, it must be because of the West.

When people rise up and the Syrian / Iranian government slaughter them, its the fault of the west.

I wonder how much you guys can actually blame on the West before people get tired of listening to it?

You guys are using the same propoganda method that is typical of the Iranian / Syrian / radical Islam contingent. When in doubt, blame the West. When they have military blunders, blame the west. When they kill their own civilians, blame the west.

......and people wonder why that part of the world is stuck in the 9th century. If the governments in the Me werent a bunch of sissified cowards, they would hold open elections and would stop oppressing their own populations. Blaming the west for their own stupidity is a worn out excuse, and the people in the Middle East see that, hence the reasons for the uprisings.

The governments in the countries affected have nothing to lose by blaming the west. Its an easy out for them, since the media in those countries only report on what the government tells them to report on.

Whats sad though is how people talk about death in those countries and correlate it as being the western worlds fault, while they completely ignore the deaths that occured with the government that was in power.

Example - Libya and Mass graves and how you and others attmept to shift those deaths to be the fault of the TNC, rebels, criminals, hired thugs while completely ignoring the facts present which link them to the Ghaddafi regime.


Speaking of propoganda...... Exactly how much do you and the others get paid to push the BS?