A Town Without Poverty? Canada's Guaranteed Income Experiment

Source

Whitehorse, Yukon - Try to imagine a town where the government paid each of the residents a living income, regardless of who they were and what they did, and a Soviet hamlet in the early 1980s may come to mind.

But this experiment happened much closer to home. For a four-year period in the '70s, the poorest families in Dauphin, Manitoba, were granted a guaranteed minimum income by the federal and provincial governments. Thirty-five years later all that remains of the experiment are 2,000 boxes of documents that have gathered dust in the Canadian archives building in Winnipeg.

Until now little has been known about what unfolded over those four years in the small rural town, since the government locked away the data that had been collected and prevented it from being analyzed.

But after a five year struggle, Evelyn Forget, a professor of health sciences at the University of Manitoba, secured access to those boxes in 2009. Until the data is computerized, any systematic analysis is impossible. Undeterred, Forget has begun to piece together the story by using the census, health records, and the testimony of the program's participants. What is now emerging reveals that the program could have counted many successes.

This is a very telling experiment preformed by our government, to know that this was actually done and the results have been kept a secret is pretty crazy. For some reason the government did not want people to know the results of this test. Could there be any reason why?

The government wanted to know what would happen if everybody in town received a guaranteed income, and specifically, they wanted to know whether people would still work.

It turns out they did.

Only two segments of Dauphin's labour force worked less as a result of Mincome - new mothers and teenagers. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies. And teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families.

The end result was that they spent more time at school and more teenagers graduated. Those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did.

Oh, ok. So everything ran much better in the town, including schooling for kids and the ability for Mom's to take as much time off for their babies as they wanted to.

I hear people's answer to a money free society is always 'no one will work' well this experiment disproves that.

This to me is a real conspiracy because the government knows how to make society better, but yet they do everything in their power to avoid taking the proper steps. Would you not want a more educated and happier country? Apparently the government doesn't think so.

Any thoughts?

Pred...

Now goes for a world without poverty!!

One town. What about the other towns that had to foot the bill?

reply to post by predator0187


This is very interesting.
There was a Swedish scholar that also had a similar proposition (I've forgot what he called his economical proposition). If anyone can remember (it was 10-15 years ago). Let me know.

If I were guaranteed a salary that paid my mortgage/taxes there's no way in hell I would bother working.

Just keep sending me those checks.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You wouldn't do something you wanted to? Maybe learn something you always wanted to learn? Go back to school?

What would you do?

Pred...

Originally posted by JIMC5499
One town. What about the other towns that had to foot the bill?

Yeah, makes sense, we don't all pay for welfare right now right? And what percentage of peoples taxes actually go towards making poor peoples lives easier?

We pay the bill now. We pay the bills for the government to take vacations, we pay for the security for the G20, hell we even build a lake for it, but yet helping others out makes you upset?

Weird...

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

You wouldn't do something you wanted to? Maybe learn something you always wanted to learn? Go back to school?

What would you do?

Pred...

I would paint more paintings.
And create silver jewelry.
And photograph nature.

Right now, I doesn't have much time for that.

reply to post by predator0187


I'd do all kinds of things I wanted to. Ride my bike a lot. Work on my small farm for my own food. Read a bunch. Experiment with my home brewing. Pick a direction and just walk for weeks at a time.

I sure as hell wouldnt be working.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by predator0187

 

I'd do all kinds of things I wanted to. Ride my bike a lot. Work on my small farm for my own food. Read a bunch. Experiment with my home brewing. Pick a direction and just walk for weeks at a time.

I sure as hell wouldnt be working.

Hmmm seems to me farming and brewing is working I mean you are technically creating a product even if it's just for you and your family you'd be supporting yourself. But since you like to do it you don't consider it work, but really it is. And I bet you you could sell your brew after all you'd have the money to get the licensing (if you need that in Canada or not I don't know?).
You'd still be considered "productive" at least in my eyes you would.

ETA: I consider long walks work, ick...I hate walking anywhere even in the mall lol...still work!

reply to post by ldyserenity


I'd certainly still be productive. I just wouldnt care to earn anything for my efforts. Nor would I bother selling any of my product or skills. Ideally I wouldnt have any contact at all with anyone unless it was explicitly intentional and wanted.

The only reason I work now is because of property taxes. If they were abolished tonight I'd quit my job tomorrow.

Work gets in the way of everything. Eventually I'd like to be profitable enough to pay the government its extortion without needing a job but given all the hoops I would have to jump through and all the fees I'd have to pay for anything related to food or livestock or alcohol that isnt likely to happen in my lifetime.

reply to post by predator0187


You totally missed my point. This was ONE town. If you went to run an entire country this way, it would be a Ponzi scheme. Among other things, I want to know how much taxpayer money went to fund this experiment? I do not believe that it would be sustainable.

reply to post by JIMC5499


We'd just have to do like Rome. Keep pillaging other nations to fund our own splendor until there were no nations left to plunder then we start plundering our own people to keep the oligarchs happy then we burn down and start it all over again.

reply to post by JIMC5499


What about natural resources? Or import taxes? That is one thing we have that is very abundant is natural resources.

If everyone had the time to do what they wanted there would be a different culture. Perhaps one that cares for one another...

Even though there would be people that kept to themselves, many people would love to provide for their friends and family. If I had land I would have no problem growing a little more for family, and my other friend or family would do what they can for me.

Hell you wouldn't have to work, although many people still would, many peoples are to be productive citizens. And even if we didn't think we were being, we would be.

Pred...

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I'd certainly still be productive. I just wouldnt care to earn anything for my efforts. Nor would I bother selling any of my product or skills. Ideally I wouldnt have any contact at all with anyone unless it was explicitly intentional and wanted.

The only reason I work now is because of property taxes. If they were abolished tonight I'd quit my job tomorrow.

Work gets in the way of everything. Eventually I'd like to be profitable enough to pay the government its extortion without needing a job but given all the hoops I would have to jump through and all the fees I'd have to pay for anything related to food or livestock or alcohol that isnt likely to happen in my lifetime.

Productive is much more than many people in society right now.

By brewing and farming would you not provide for your family or people close to you? Sounds like work to others, but to you, you enjoy it so it is a hobby, same things go for everything in the world. I love photography and physics, I would have no problem studying and practicing those for no money.

Pred...

Originally posted by tomten
And photograph nature.

I had to laugh at this because this is what I do for a job.

Funny coincidence.

Pred...

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

food, clothing, gas and transportation, vacations, i could go on.
I highly doubt you would do no work!

How are you going to guarantee income for a whole country or even the world? You would have to get the money from somewhere, and if it was from the people itself, they would have to work crap jobs to pay into the pool of income. If there are too many people seeking one profession there will be unemployment and the whole scheme collapses.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You just described your new job. Brewer.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by JIMC5499

 

We'd just have to do like Rome. Keep pillaging other nations to fund our own splendor until there were no nations left to plunder then we start plundering our own people to keep the oligarchs happy then we burn down and start it all over again.

I find this absolutely hilarious, since you're clearly American and this is obviously what the US is doing right now under capitalism.

Down comes that glass house of yours...

...Unless of course you've forgotten about Panama, Bahrain, Afghanistan, Iraq... the rest of the Middles East... China, etc..

"Look guys! Capitalism works the best, all we have to do is get foreign populations that our population doesn't have to look at to sign these forms saying that we can seize all their family's assets should they decide to commit suicide because we pay them 54 cents a day."