Thousands of California prisoners on hunger strike

That's great.

California can save some money by not feeding them.

Third line

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by InshaAllah
OMG this is just wrong. Have you ever been in a cell much less prison. this is why i think every american should go to jail for at least 1 day and night and see if your coddled. maybe we should just take them out back and put a bullet in their heads, then we would be rid of scum and you can go on living your cozy life without fear. whats wrong with having some compassion for your fellow man?

Uh huh. We are talking about guys who murder, rape, burglarize, mug, and perform all kinds of other types of mayhem upon their fellow humans. You get that, right?

People murder everyday and are not locked up (america police force, umm the army,navy,marines,air force) and ummm i i remember correctly they have raped too during war. does that make it ok. i guess according to your logic.

Look at what organized crime has done to our country and they have stole the most from the people,its the American Gov.

reply to post by InshaAllah


The world is not black and white.

As much as some would like it to be, things just are not that easy.

reply to post by InshaAllah


I understand your perspective. However, there are people there who can't even write their name. But do you know what else? It doesn't bother them that they can't, and they don't even want to. The path to education starts with the desire to be educated. You can't force someone to learn proper manners.

I was dumb in my youth, and got what I deserved. I am actually thankful for my experience because it turned me around. You want to give more rights to people who kill their own family members? Drug dealers that force women to be drug mules by threat of violence and rape? Remorseless child molesters? I've looked into the eyes of these very people, and please believe me when I say, theres just no helping some people.

reply to post by InshaAllah


Those are entirely different issues. If we could get TPTB into prison, I would not want them molly coddled either.

You don't punish the innocent just so you can make sure you get the guilty.

Do you realize that exact opinion has created this garbage prison industry we live among today.

It's all point and laugh and don't care until your father gets sent to the slammer for driving without a license. Or you end up at the wrong place at the wrong time and the jury just doesn't like the look on your face.

It's funny to you now, but when it happens to you you'll be crying like a baby for someone to help you.

No one will because "they shouldn't have gone to jail in the first place". Morons.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Some people are just too stupid to live imo.

What happens when one of those people turns out to be YOU.

"Correctional" Institutions, yea right. More like "Isolate anyone who would actually do anything radical about our corrupt system" institution.

reply to post by BlesUTP


M'kay I have no sympathy for violent offenders. I do however think that a kid who gets busted selling pot to his friends and even a car thief are just being dumbasses and that locking them up in solitary to force confessions while in prison is wrong. Not every prisoner has committed atrocities, and those are the ones I'm worried about.

The thing is the prisons are not supportive of society. They dont rehabilitate they only turn the prisons
into HARD KNOCK SCHOOLS so when some are released they know how to get away with IT better from their peer influences and contacts. These prisons should be segregated by crimes committed. Kill then kill prison only killers there, rob then rob prison drugs then drug prisons ect. this will help in the development of materials that can concentrate better on the populations present, instead of throwing them all together and then you end up with a dui server going into solitary for harming if not killing a lifer who just wanted to take out their frustrations.

The problem is Prisons are a BUSSINESS NOW IF NOT ALWAYS WERE SO THOSE WITHIN THE WALLS are nothing more then product to the private owners ect. If society REALLY wants to help then force them to get their educations and to do follow up process related to their crimes before release. SO if inside and you have 5 years and do it you cannot be released unril the education level has been passed. If not intelligent enough then you got time inside to become more intelligent. This will help when they are released into society making them workers of tax instead of get it how I live mentality.

reply to post by Domo1


I agree. Car thieves don't get thrown in solitary by default though. They get thrown in there by being disruptive, disrespectful or just plain dumb.

The problem is the judicial system and penal code. It's long overdue for changes.

reply to post by Domo1


Then lets fix the judicial system then, you are right, a non-violent pot smoker does not deserve to be there. Now we get to the root of the problem.

That is the problem that needs to be tackled, not exactly your OP.

They did this once already in July and it didn't do that much good. It started with Pelican Bay State Pen and went for three weeks. I guess this time, it's expanding to more prisons.

reply to post by Skewed


Well before we wave a magic wand and fix the judicial system, I think it would be pretty easy to stop putting people in solitary confinement for the purpose of extracting a confession. Please understand I am not supportive of coddling child rapists. I am advocating treating people as human beings.

Prisons do not help any one. The people that own them make a ton of money so its in their best interest to fill them up. The prisoners are locked up with a bunch of horny men who have been locked up for years causing them to go crazy. How does this help society in the long run? Lock them up for a couple years, make them angry then release them?

The US has the highest prison per capita population. Something tells me that isn't right. I have no doubt there are people that deserve to be locked-up and NEVER let out among the public. But I have to question if all of them belong there, if even the majority serving time belong there. I am quite certain there are a good number that do not belong behind bars. At any rate I don't think they all belong together.

The truly hardcore or criminally insane will not improve and many others will likely be influenced by them and dragged down to their level, soured on the concept of justice as it is practiced. Can we keep those factions apart somewhat? Likely not, not with the overcrowding we have.

I you are a country that locks up more of your people than any other nation in the world that would indicate to me something is just not right with the system. There must be alternatives. There must be some room for improvement.

The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country. A calm and dispassionate recognition of the rights of the accused against the state and even of convicted criminals against the state, a constant heart-searching by all charged with the duty of punishment, a desire and eagerness to rehabilitate in the world of industry of all those who have paid their dues in the hard coinage of punishment, tireless efforts towards the discovery of curative and regenerating processes and an unfaltering faith that there is a treasure, if only you can find it in the heart of every person – these are the symbols which in the treatment of crime and criminals mark and measure the stored up strength of a nation, and are the sign and proof of the living virtue in it.

Winston Churchill, 1874 - 1965

I don't want this to become a long diatribe on the inequities of the modern prison system in western societies however I would like to state the basic premise of prison in the hope it will encourage more intelligent debate.

Prison has 3 basic purposes:

1: Punishment. When one is sentenced to a term of incarceration the punishment aspect is solely the removal of the individual's liberty for an amount of time. No further punishment should be imparted by the regime or treatment of a prisoner once incarcerated. Punitive measures by the use of oppressive regimes, minimal rations, removal of further liberties tend to be counter-productive and increase the risk of recidivism.

2: Deterrence. Simply to deter a would be offender from committing the offence in the first place. By sentencing (for example) a burglar to 1 year incarceration the justice system sends a message to other would be burglars that may also have their liberty removed for a similar amount of time. Unfortunately there is no evidence that the death penalty acts as a deterrent for more serious offences. The nature of offences that would attract capital punishment tend to expose people that have serious mental health problems and as such they do not consider the death penalty at all.

3: Rehabilitation. The most important aspect of prison. Statistics are clear (and please feel free to search them and counter the point). A prisoner who cannot read and/or write has a much higher chance of returning to prison. Likewise ex-offenders with no "hope" for the future (job/ education/ shelter prospects) are more likely to return. We teach them to read and write. We teach them the error of their ways and when we release them, we release them into shelter and job prospects. We don't just throw them in the streets waiting to arrest them again.

I'll close with this. Around 97% of the men and women in prison right now will be released at some point. They will be your neighbours, workmates, maybe even a friend of yours. Would you rather we treated them with respect and helped them get on the path to contribute to society or would you rather them come out of prison angry, discontent and potentially dangerous?

Domo1 , aparantly we dont lock them up in solitary confinement long enough.

They should stop doing things that get them put inside solitary confinement.

What about that? Let them go on Hunger Strike , stop getting put in jail.

Their prolly all going to lose weight and slip thru the bars. Take over the prisons and halt all license plate making.
No one will have license plates for their new cars. All the revenue from vehicle registration will be lost. This will be the straw that breaks the camel cigarrette and the U.S. government. Anarchy will quickly ensew thru out the continental U.S. Down goes Canada down goes Mexico. Mexican drug cartels will then gravitate to places of
absolute power. Fly by night taco stands will corner the fast food market. All other races will be consumed by the vast breeding practices that roman catholics are custom to celebrating. In this case on cinco de mayo.Tons of fireworks every night. Then I jump from my one story roof in a wild eyed mezmerized state from sleep deprivation in a failed attempt to end it all that only leaves me very badly injured. The cops come and with weapons drawn scream stop resisting and open fire. Fatally wounded in the blaze of glory the whole world goes silent as I utter my last request.

"There is........ A green book.......... On the... Night stand..................... Please take it back........To the library?".

Originally posted by Domo1

...
Prison officials are threatening to punish inmates who are not eating by... locking them in solitary. If there are that many on hunger strike, I doubt that plan is going to pan out.

If you go to the link and read the list of demands, they don't seem too far fetched. While I understand the need to place some of the population in solitary, doing it all the time and forcing people to admit guilt before being let out seems to be a violation of rights to me.

Thoughts?

edition.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 4-10-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

I worked as a correctional officer for TDCJ so I have some insight into this subject.

Um no, they are not threatening them with solitary confinement. When an inmate goes on hunger strike there is a procedure to follow to ensure that the inmate does not die. This requires the inmate to be placed in a solitary cell much like a suicide watch.

Also, these people are in prison for a reason. Solitary confinement is there for a reason. The times are lengthy as a deterrent. If the stay was only a few days then it would not be as big a deal and more inmates would break the rules. In fact, most first time offenses that land you in solitary confinement only keep you in for about 3 days.

The prison system is not a petitioning system. A revolt in prison is a riot and nothing more. If they want to make changes then they need to use the legal system. For example, Ruiz vs Estelle. One inmate changed the system for ever by simply going to court. www.laits.utexas.edu...

Prison systems today in their current form are a teddy bear of a joke. Inmates have the right to eat candy, drink soda water, and watch TV. All day long, they don't even have to work anymore. What a joke. If they want to get laid there are guards that pay for sex. If they want drugs, guards will bring them in. Instead of spending money keeping inmates happy, the system needs to pay for better a caliber of guards.

The reactions in this thread remind me of the movie Shawshank Redemption where Andy (Tim Robbins) says to Red (Morgan Freeman): "The funny thing is, on the outside, I was an honest man, straight as an arrow. I had to come to prison to be a crook."

Try to keep in mind folks, there are some human beings in prison... not everyone behind bars is a murderer, rapist, and/or all around professional scumbag. You can't paint everyone with the same brush.

There are a million and one various circumstances that could land you behind bars, deservedly so or not.

As an example:
If your 18 year old kid kicked a cop in the shins during the heat of the moment at an Occupy Wall Street protest and ended up having to serve 10 months behind bars for "attacking" a cop and resisting arrest, would you still have the attitude: "Bah... These scumbags deserve any solitary confinement they get, let them all starve and freeze, who cares... they shouldn't be breaking the law in the first place." ??

Scenarios like that can happen, misdemeanor offences can get hammered with ridiculously unjustified long prison sentences, etc.



... Just some food for thought before jumping on the lynch mob mentality bandwagon.

Originally posted by InshaAllah
WOW this world constantly amazes me. people are so cruel. and yet they get their shorts in a bunch when someone throws a kitty in the trash but 12,000 inmates across america are protesting in their own right and its screw you guys.

im just amazed at how humanity lost its humanity for one another. just pray you dont end up in the system one day.

I'm amazed that people can commit atrocities on other people and expect to be treated with kindness and dignity for it. And I'm amazed that people can be snowed to feel pity for them. Prisoners are master manipulators, and if anyone thinks that most of them are actually going hungry, you've been bought and sold.

/TOA