100,000 Christians Have Left Egypt Since March

www.christiannewstoday.com...
www.persecution.org...

CAIRO, EGYPT -- In a pattern that follows the exodus of Christians from several Middle Eastern countries, a new report says that at least 100,000 Coptic believers have left Egypt in recent months, especially since the uprising which resulted in the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.

100,000 Christians have left since march. but why ? I cant exactly see them all coming back. Egypt is getitng took over by extremist Islam and Christianity is getting wiped out over there. I thought the removal of mubarek would have led to greater things but it's just got much worse

How sad that religion has highjacked the expression of political dissent. If the Christians are in the majority then the Muslums have hell to pay. If the Muslums are in the majority, Christians will pay. If the Isrealis are in charge, we all pay.

It's really all about the Palestinians and the Isreali Gaza settlements in Palestine anyway. too bad.

Originally posted by windword
How sad that religion has highjacked the expression of political dissent. If the Christians are in the majority then the Muslums have hell to pay. If the Muslums are in the majority, Christians will pay. If the Isrealis are in charge, we all pay.

It's really all about the Palestinians and the Isreali Gaza settlements in Palestine anyway. too bad.

And in which countries do you see Christians persecuting other religions or anyone for that matter?
Even Muslims don't do this. You should no by now that extremist groups are set up by the west for their own gain

reply to post by windword


Yes I've noticed that too. Christians all over the world just killing muslims. Why here in the US, Christians kill muslims all the time...what a ridiculous thing to say!

I miss the days where you could have a decent debate on Ats without Israel being brought up. Thats complety irrelavant to what is going on here.Theres thousands of israel threads on Ats, so discuss israel on them please. The fact is chrisitans are being persecuted and killed in Islamic countries such as Egypt. Are Muslims or any religous group persecuted like this in the so called christian countries ? also this isnt exactly just an Egypt thing, Christians are persecuted in all Islamic countries and are under dhimmi status. look up who Asia bibi is too see how they are treated. Being a Christian in these Fascist countries must be horrible.

Muslims have been persecuted here in the US ever since 911. The "War on Terror" was a war on Muslim extreemist, and people went overboard and persecuted everyday Muslims here and still do. The "no mosque in my backyard" agendas are still garnering attention in small town America every day.

Eqypt's recent uprisings were absolutely related to the politics playing out over Palestine and Isreal's struggles. That is a fact, Google it! Isreali occupation of the Gaza strip has everyhting to do the the persecution happening to all three belief systems.

It's a sad, sad distraction from the realities of the greed and corruption that are truely the devil at hand.

reply to post by windword


How can you compare small incidents such as people not agreeing with mosques to churches being burnt down, Christians slaughtered in the street. Aposates killed, etc etc I think if you look into it you'll find anti semetic hate crimes in the Us are up to ten times more common

also what your saying is it's all israels fault as usual. If Israel never came to be do you honestly think Christians wouldnt be treated in the same manner. Stay on topic this is about Christans being persecuted not Israel.

Originally posted by Thetawave

CAIRO, EGYPT -- In a pattern that follows the exodus of Christians from several Middle Eastern countries, a new report says that at least 100,000 Coptic believers have left Egypt in recent months, especially since the uprising which resulted in the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.

No offense, because I believe that people have a right to believe in whatever they want to as long as it hurts nobody else, and that includes every religion.

Honestly, the world would be a better place if 100,000 Christians, plus billions more left the entire planet!

Originally posted by Thetawave
reply to post by windword

 

How can you compare small incidents such as people not agreeing with mosques to churches being burnt down, Christians slaughtered in the street. Aposates killed, etc etc I think if you look into it you'll find anti semetic hate crimes in the Us are up to ten times more common

also what your saying is it's all israels fault as usual. If Israel never came to be do you honestly think Christians wouldnt be treated in the same manner. Stay on topic this is about Christans being persecuted not Israel.

How can you call the autrocities that occured in Iraq, due to the lies of leaders claiming to be Christian, a small incident? How can you call the murder that is occuring to civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan small and trivial? You sir, are complaining of spec in the eye of those who would challenge your views, while the log in your own eye has blinded you.

Theta out.......

reply to post by windword


So you're basically saying it's a war by christians waged on muslims. honestly is that your defence for these christians being slaughtered. but of course ignore all my points. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with christanity

If the West had never gone into these countries, these Innocent Christians would still be treated like the Kuffar they are no matter what. please dont respond by blaming the Jews again *cough cough sorry Israel.

Looks like Egypt is turning into a dangerous place. I always wanted to visit, but it may be becoming too risky. Tourism is going to take a huge hit.

Yet more good news related to religion. Every day religion brings nothing but joy and happiness...

Egypt will continue to descend into Islamic madness. Non-muslims should have left long ago like I and others soberly suggested at the start of this Jihad Spring. Muslims wishing to apostate should find a non-muslims leaving for civilized lands and beg for safe passage.

Just wait till they begin defacing the Giza plateau and other non-muslim holy sites. What they did to the Buddha in Afghanistan, the jihading muslims will do to the tombs of the Pharaohs. Ancient Christian and Jewish site will also be desecrated...what little is left of them that is.

Mosques, minarets, and prayer rugs for the people of Egypt who have decided it is better to submit to Allah than return their gaze to the Light of Greece. Turn away from Mecca. Turn towards Greece.

An understanding of Jihad is necessary. Egypt has been under Jihad attack for centuries. We are witnesses to the last vestige of Western Civilization in a land that was once at its center.

This is real history. Right before your eyes. An entire civilization is being consumed by Islamic Jihad.

reply to post by windword


This is the culmination of centuries of Islamic Jihad in Egypt. Alexandria was once the center of Western civilization and Egypt a light unto the world. But not anymore. It is a wasteland of increasing violence and darkness. Because of Islam.

After suffering under Jihad attack for centuries, Egypt is being forced to submit to Mecca.

Muslims the planet over are celebrating this victory for Allah.

reply to post by windword


You are wrong. Muslims engage in Jihad in an effort to spread Islam in praise of their deity Allah as instructed by their warlord leader, Mohammed. The Jihad mechanic exists and functions independently of what non-muslims do.

All non-muslims are the target of Jihad.

82 % of egyptian muslims believe adulterers should be stoned and 84 % believe apostates should be killed. I am not surprised non-muslims in Egypt do not feel safe among these extremists, even more in these uncertain times for Egypt.

pewglobal.org...

reply to post by Thetawave

I hate to be the one to say this, but do you have a better source for this news? I searched around the web, and although the article says it was in a report from the EUHRO, I can't find any such report on their site. All the articles on the web seem to source aina.org, which seems to be a Syrian Christian site (not Coptic or Egyptian), which doesn't link to the actual source report, and doesn't either mention how many total Egyptians have fled Egypt.

reply to post by Thetawave


Ties with the Axis Powers during World War II

The nature of al-Husseini's support for the Axis powers, and his alliance with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy is hotly disputed. Some, like Renzo de Felice, deny that the relationship can be taken to reflect a putative affinity of Arab nationalism with Nazi/Fascist ideology, and that men like Husseini chose them as allies for purely strategic reasons,[101] on the grounds that, as Husseini later wrote in his memoirs,'the enemy of your enemy is your friend',[102] others think that Husseini's motives were deeply inflected by antisemitism from the outstart.[citation needed]
[edit] Pre-war

In 1933, within weeks of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, the German Consul-General in Palestine, the pro-nazi Heinrich Wolff,[103] sent a telegram to Berlin reporting al-Husseini's belief that Palestinian Muslims were enthusiastic about the new regime and looked forward to the spread of Fascism throughout the region. Wolff met al-Husseini and many sheiks again, a month later, at Nabi Musa. They expressed their approval of the anti-Jewish boycott in Germany and asked Wolff not to send any Jews to Palestine.[104] Wolff subsequently wrote in his annual report for that year that the Arabs' political naïvety led them to fail to recognize the link between German Jewish policy and their problems in Palestine, and that their enthusiasm for Nazi Germany was devoid of any real understanding of the phenomenon.[105] The various proposals by Palestinian notables like al-Husseini were rejected consistently over the years out of concern to avoid disrupting Anglo-German relations, in line with Germany's policy of not imperilling their economic and cultural interests in the region by a change in their policy of neutrality, and respect for English interests. Hitler's Englandpolitik essentially precluded significant assistance to Arab leaders.[106] Italy also made the nature of its assistance to the Palestinians contingent on the outcome of its own negotiations with England, and cut off aid when it appeared that the English were ready to admit the failure of their pro-Zionist policy in Palestine.[107] Al-Husseini's adversary, Ze'ev Jabotinsky had at the same time cut off Irgun ties with Italy after the passage of antisemitic racial legislation.

Though Italy did offer substantial aid, some German assistance also trickled through. After asking the new German Consul-General, Hans Döhle on 21 July 1937 for support, the Abwehr briefly made an exception to its policy and gave some limited aid. But this was aimed to exert pressure on England over Czechoslovakia. Promised arms shipments never eventuated.[108] This was not the only diplomatic front on which al-Husseini was active. A month after his visit to Döhle, he met with the American Consul George Wadsworth (August 1937), to whom he professed his belief that America was remote from imperialist ambitions and therefore able to understand that Zionism 'represented a hostile and imperialist aggression directed against an inhabited country’. In a further interview with Wadsworth on August 31, he expressed his fears that Jewish influence in the United States might persuade the country to side with Zionists.[109] In the same period he courted the French government by expressing a willingness to assist them in the region.[110]
[edit] In the Middle East
See also: 1941 Iraqi coup d'état, Anglo-Iraqi War, and Anglo-Soviet invasion of Persia

With the outbreak of the Second World War in September 1939 the Iraqi Government complied with a British request to break off diplomatic relations with Germany, and interned all German nationals, and introduce emergency measures putting Iraq on a virtual war-footing.[111] A circle of 7 officers opposed this decision and the measures taken. With Nuri as-Said's agreement - he wished to persuade al-Husseini of the value of the British White Paper of 1939 - they invited al-Husseini to Iraq in October 1939, and he was to play an influential role there in the following two years. A quadrumvirate of four younger generals among the seven, three of whom had served with al-Husseini in WW1, were hostile to the idea of subordinating Iraqi national interests to Britain's war strategy and requirements.[112][113] In March 1940, the nationalist Rashid Ali replaced Nuri as-Said. Ali made covert contacts with German representatives in the Middle East, though he was not yet an openly pro-Axis supporter, and al-Husseini's personal secretary Kemal Hadad acted as a liaison between the Axis powers and these officers.[114]

In mid May 1940, despairing of their ability to secure control of Iraq's oil fields and deny access to Germany, the British turned to the extremist Irgun, approaching one of its commanders, David Raziel, whom they had imprisoned in Palestine. They asked him if he would undertake to destroy Iraq's oil refineries, and thus turn off the spigots to Germany. Raziel agreed on condition he be allowed to kidnap the Mufti and bring him back to Palestine. The mission plan was changed at the last moment, however, and Raziel died when his plane was shot down by a German fighter.[115].[116]

When the Anglo-Iraqi War broke out, like many clerics in Iraq, al-Husseini issued a fatwa for a holy war against Britain. When the coup d'état failed, - what little German and Italian assistance was given played a negligible role in the war[117] - he escaped to Persia, where he was granted legation asylum first by Japan, and then by Italy. On October 8, after the occupation of Persia by the Allies and after the new Persian government of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi severed diplomatic relations with the Axis powers, al-Husseini fled through Turkey to Axis Europe.[118][119] Specifically, he fled to Fascist Italy with the Italian diplomats who provided him with an Italian service passport. To avoid recognition, al-Husseini changed his appearance by shaving his beard and dying his hair.[120]
[edit] In Nazi-occupied Europe

Al-Husseini arrived in Rome on October 11, 1941, and immediately contacted Italian Military Intelligence (Servizio Informazioni Militari, or SIM). He presented himself as head of a secret Arab nationalist organization with offices in all Arab countries. On condition that the Axis powers 'recognize in principle the unity, independence, and sovereignty, of an Arab state, including Iraq, Syria, Palestine, and Transjordan', he offered support in the war against Britain and stated his willingness to discuss the issues of 'the Holy Places, Lebanon, the Suez Canal, and Aqaba'. The Italian foreign ministry approved al-Husseini's proposal, recommended giving him a grant of one million lire, and referred him to Benito Mussolini, who met al-Husseini on October 27. According to al-Husseini's account, it was an amicable meeting in which Mussolini expressed his hostility to the Jews and Zionism.[121]

Back in the summer of 1940 and again in February 1941, al-Husseini submitted to the German government a draft declaration of German-Arab cooperation, containing a clause:

Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.[122]

Now, encouraged by his meeting with the Italian leader, al-Husseini prepared a draft declaration, affirming the Axis support for the Arabs on November 3. In three days, the declaration, slightly amended by the Italian foreign ministry, received the formal approval of Mussolini and was forwarded to the German embassy in Rome. On November 6, al-Husseini arrived in Berlin, where he discussed the text of his declaration with Ernst von Weizsäcker and other German officials. In the final draft, which differed only marginally from al-Husseini's original proposal, the Axis powers declared their readiness to approve the elimination (Beseitigung) of the Jewish National Home in Palestine.[123]
Haj Amin al-Husseini meeting with Adolf Hitler (December 1941).

On November 20, al-Husseini met the German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop[124] and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28.[125] He asked Hitler for a public declaration that 'recognized and sympathized with the Arab struggles for independence and liberation, and that would support the elimination of a national Jewish homeland'.[126] Hitler refused to make such a public announcement, saying that it would strengthen the Gaullists against the Vichy France,[127] but asked al-Husseini to 'to lock ...deep in his heart' the following points, which Christopher Browning summarizes as follows, that

‘Germany has resolved, step by step, to ask one European nation after the other to solve its Jewish problem, and at the proper time, direct a similar appeal to non-European nations as well'. When Germany had defeated Russia and broken through the Caucasus into the Middle East, it would have no further imperial goals of its own and would support Arab liberation... But Hitler did have one goal. "Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power". (Das deutsche Ziel würde dann lediglich die Vernichtung des im arabischen Raum unter der Protektion der britischen Macht lebenden Judentums sein). In short, Jews were not simply to be driven out of the German sphere but would be hunted down and destroyed even beyond it.’[128]

Al-Husseini meeting with Muslim volunteers, including the Legion of Azerbaijan, at the opening of the Islamic Central Institute in Berlin on 18 December 1942, during the Muslim festival Eid al-Adha.

A separate record of the meeting was made by Fritz Grobba, who until recently had been the German ambassor to Iraq. His version of the crucial words reads 'when the hour of Arab liberation comes, Germany has no interest there other than the destruction of the power protecting the Jews".[129] Al-Husseini's own account of this point, as recorded in his diary, is very similar to Grobba's.[130]

In December 1942, al-Husseini held a speech at the celebration of the opening of the Islamic Central Institute (Islamische Zentralinstitut) in Berlin, of which he served as honorary chair. In the speech, he harshly criticised those he considered as aggressors against Muslims, namely "Jews, Bolsheviks and Anglo-Saxons." At the time of the opening of the Islamic Central Institute, there were an estimated 3,000 Muslims in Germany, including 400 German converts. The Islamic Central Institute gave the Muslims in Germany institutional ties to the 'Third Reich'.[131]
[edit] The Holocaust

Al-Husseini had been residing in Berlin during the war, though denied knowing of the Holocaust in the aftermath trial.

On November 2, 1943, Himmler sent a telegram to the Mufti: To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory. Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler
Haj Amin al-Husseini meeting with Heinrich Himmler (1943).

Husseini intervened on May 13, 1943, with the German Foreign Office to block possible transfers of Jews from Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania, after reports reached him that 4000 Jewish children accompanied by 500 adults had managed to reach Palestine. He asked that the Foreign Minister "to do his utmost" to block all such proposals and this request was complied with.[132] A year later, on the 25 July 1944, he wrote to the Hungarian foreign minister to register his objection to the release of certificates for 900 Jewish children and 100 adults for transfer from Hungary, fearing they might end up in Palestine. He suggested that if such transfers of population were deemed necessary, then:-

"it would be indispensable and infinitely preferable to send them to other countries where they would find themselves under active control, as for example Poland, thus avoiding danger and preventing damage."[133]

Among the acts of sabotage al-Husseini attempted to implement, Michael Bar Zohar reports a chemical warfare assault on the second largest and predominantly Jewish city in Palestine, Tel Aviv. According to him, five parachutists were sent with a toxin to dump into the water system. The police caught the infiltrators in a cave near Jericho, and according to Jericho district police commander Fayiz Bey Idrissi, 'The laboratory report stated that each container held enough poison to kill 25,000 people, and there were at least ten containers.'. Medoff concludes,

Under Husseini's direction, teams of Arab saboteurs were parachuted into Iraq, Transjordan and Palestine, where they attacked Allied facilities such as telephone lines, pipelines, bridges and railways. One such sabotage team was armed with a substantial quantity of poison that they were supposed to dump into the Tel Aviv water system. (In a separate but related matter, the Mufti repeatedly urged the Germans to bomb Tel Aviv[134] and Jerusalem 'in order to injure Palestinian Jewry and for propaganda purposes in the Arab world', as his Nazi interlocutors put it. The proposals were rejected as militarily unfeasible.[135]

Wolfgang G. Schwanitz notes that in his memoirs Husseini recalled that Heinrich Himmler, in the summer of 1943, while confiding some German war secrets, inveighed against Jewish "war guilt", and, speaking of Germany’s persecution of the Jews said that "up to now we have exterminated (in Arabic, abadna) around three million of them". In his memoirs, Husseini wrote he was astonished to hear this. Schwanitz doubts the sincerity of his surprise since, he argues, Husseini had publicly declared that Muslims should follow the example Germans set for a "definitive solution to the Jewish problem".[136]

In September 1943, intense negotiations to rescue 500 Jewish children from the town of Arbe in Croatia collapsed due to the objection of al-Husseini who blocked the children's departure to Turkey because they would end up in Palestine.[137]

Recent Nazi documents uncovered in the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Military Archive Service in Freiburg [1] by two researchers, Klaus Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers indicated that in the event of the British being defeated in Egypt by Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps the Nazis had planned to deploy a special unit called Einsatzkommando Ägypten to exterminate Palestinian Jews and that they wanted Arab support to prevent the emergence of a Jewish state.
[edit] Propaganda and recruitment
Insignia of the 13th Handschar Division
November 1943 al-Husseini greeting Bosnian Waffen-SS volunteers.

Throughout World War II, al-Husseini worked for the Axis Powers as a broadcaster in propaganda targeting Arab public opinion. The Mufti was paid “an absolute fortune” of 50,000 marks a month (when a German field marshal was making 25,000 marks a year).[138] Walter Winchell called him 'the Arabian Lord Haw-Haw.'[139]

He recruited Muslim volunteers for the German armed forces operating in the Balkans. Beginning in 1941, al-Husseini visited Bosnia, and convinced Muslim leaders that a Muslim S.S. division would be in the interest of Islam. In spite of these and other propaganda efforts, "only half of the expected 20,000 to 25,000 Muslims volunteered'.[140] Al-Husseini was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th Handschar division of 21,065 men, which conducted operations against Communist partisans in the Balkans from February 1944,[141] committing numerous atrocities against their traditional ethnic rivals the local Christian Serbs.[142]

In 1942, al-Husseini helped organize Arab students and North African emigres in Germany into the "Arabisches Freiheitkorps," an Arab Legion in the German Army that hunted down Allied parachutists in the Balkans and fought on the Russian front.[143]

On March 1, 1944, while speaking on Radio Berlin, al-Husseini said: 'Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.'[144][145][146] He was promised the leadership of Palestine after German troops had driven out the British.[147] At the end of the war, he was allowed to flee to Syria as part of an attempt to prevent the alienation of Middle Eastern regimes.[

reply to post by stake


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10/07/11 10:39 AM

Haj Amin al-Husseini


Haj Amin al-Husseini
al-Husseini in 1929.
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem
In office
1921–1948
Preceded by Kamil al-Husayni
Succeeded by Husam Al-din Jarallah
President of the Supreme Muslim Council
In office
1922–1937
Personal details
Born 1895 or 1897
Sanjak of Jerusalem
(Syria)
Died July 4, 1974 (aged 79)
Beirut, Lebanon
Political party Arab Higher Committee
Religion Sunni Islam

Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني‎, also al-Husayni,[1]Hajj, and Al-Hajj; born 1895 or 1897; died July 4, 1974) was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in the British Mandate of Palestine. From as early as 1920, in order to secure the independence of Palestine as an Arab state he actively opposed Zionism, and was implicated as a leader of a violent riot that broke out over the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.[2] From 1921 to 1937[3] al-Husseini was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, using the position to promote Islam and rally Palestinian nationalism against Zionism.

His opposition to the British started during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, evading an arrest warrant, he fled Palestine and took refuge in, successively, the French Mandate of Lebanon and the Kingdom of Iraq, until he established himself in Italy and finally Germany. During World War II he actively collaborated with both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, meeting Adolf Hitler personally and asking him to back Arab independence. He requested, as part of the Pan-Arab struggle, Hitler's support to oppose the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home. He was promised the leadership of the Arabs after German troops had driven out the British.[4] He helped recruit Muslims for the Waffen-SS. At war's end, he came under French protection, and managed to slip away to Cairo to avoid eventual prosecution.

During the 1948 Palestine War, Husseini represented the Arab Higher Committee and opposed both the 1947 UN Partition Plan and King Abdullah's entente with Zionists to annex the Arab part of British Mandatory Palestine to Jordan. In September 1948, he participated in establishment of All-Palestine Government. Seated in Egyptian ruled Gaza, this government won a limited recognition of Arab states, but was eventually dissolved by Gamal Nasser in 1959. After the war and subsequent Palestinian exodus, his claims to leadership, wholly discredited, left him eventually sidelined by the Palestine Liberation Organization, and he lost most of his residual political influence.[5] He died in Beirut, Lebanon, in July 1974.

Husseini was and remains a highly controversed figure. Historians debate to what extent his fierce opposition to Zionism was grounded in nationalism or antisemitism or a combination of both.

I have Egyptian Coptic friends in Alexandria I speak with almost daily and believe you me their community are VERY worried, especially in the coming year or two in Egypt. They said their future there is NOT good, not good at all. They know Egypt, like Libya, will become quite radical and Egypt will become unliveable for them.

Egypt's Coptic population is approx 5% of Egypt.