christianity and Antidepressants

I know Im probably going to get ripped for this but Its a question thats been puzzling me for some time now.America has the biggest christian population in the world,it also has the largest consumption of anti depressants in the world,I was just wondering,whats the problem christians,is your faith not enough to sustain you,isnt fear as big a sin as,adultry,lying,etc.I have to work today but I was hoping to get some feedback,good or bad

reply to post by theson


Your hatred for humanity is strong.

Ephesians 4:18
English Standard Version (ESV)
18They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

I love man,I dont judge or point my finger.Do I detect anger?

Their depression will not be healed by God because people haven't got time to sit and have faith for him to relieve them of their pain by means of a miracle. They are too busy having their nails done, shopping for crappy, useless materialistic wears and having plastic surgery because they are not happy with the way that God made them...

But that's just what I think.....

Probably because most christians are close to middle class or above and can afford the drugs to take.

Perhaps the two statistics are totally unrelated? It's also pretty easy to get on anti-depressants - you just go to the doctor because your feeling sad, let them know about it, and you get medication. Easy.

They aren't therapists, they are doctors. Both try to help, but of course it is the commonly visited doctor who can only help through medication.

To be honest, i don't think spirituality and anti-depressants are a good mix. A truly spiritually sustained person does is not dependent on inhibiting drugs to live a fulfilling life. Choose one or the other, the smart option should be obvious.

Damn near everyone in America has been brainwashed. It's not just the Christians.
While I'm no fan of the religion myself, to point your finger at Christians for
taking antidepressants in a country that's been absolutely bombarded with
a thousand forms of mind control seems just a little prejudice IMHO.

You may be on to something there because i'm a christian and i take those pills.
Oop's, nearly forgot... I have had a stroke, prostate cancer and four months ago nearly died because of an aortic aneurism.
NO, it must be the christian thing..

Originally posted by theson
I know Im probably going to get ripped for this but Its a question thats been puzzling me for some time now.America has the biggest christian population in the world,it also has the largest consumption of anti depressants in the world,I was just wondering,whats the problem christians,is your faith not enough to sustain you,isnt fear as big a sin as,adultry,lying,etc.I have to work today but I was hoping to get some feedback,good or bad

Honestly it makes sense to me....I was very depressed when I was a Christian....Just blindly worshiping a God that claims to be all about love, yet is willing to send a great majority of mankind into an everlasting Hellfire was incredibly depressing for me...I could never send ANYONE....not even Hitler into everlasting torture of Hell...Sure I could send him there for a few hundred years, but not for eternity. No one deserves that, especially not just someone who grew up in the wrong faith. Worshiping a Monster that would do that simply for not bowing down in blind faith to him is an incredibly depressing Idea.....It's not surprising that Christians are depressed!

Seriously though, to get back to the question at hand, I think you are not realizing that Depression is often a disease...It's a chemical imbalance that has nothing to do with Faith. This chemical imbalance can often be completely taken care of by....yeah you guessed it....medicine. If you truly believe people should not treat depression with pills then I hope you're not such a hypocrite as to go to the doctor when you've got phnemonia or some other life threatening illness, or injury....I mean just have faith and God'll take care of it right?

America also uses more oil then anywhere else in the world, does, does that mean oil makes people depressed too?
Correlation does not equal cause as Im sure you know.

For the record Im an atheist and have been on antidepressants for a while now

reply to post by theson

ugh! You brought me out of "lurk status".
Sometimes, you just have to respond.
I have been on anti-depressants for well over 30 years. I was on them before it was the "thing to do".
I have an inherited chemical inbalance from my mother who was manic.
It has nothing to do with Christianity no more than cancer, diabetes, or heart disease. To connect the two shows a great lack of understanding life in general.
To challenge someone's faith on the basis of their illness, whatever it is, well, the only word I can think of is "silly".
I guess with this sort of reasoning, Christians should never get sick and just live forever in THIS world because we believe in God.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by theson
I know Im probably going to get ripped for this but Its a question thats been puzzling me for some time now.America has the biggest christian population in the world,it also has the largest consumption of anti depressants in the world,I was just wondering,whats the problem christians,is your faith not enough to sustain you,isnt fear as big a sin as,adultry,lying,etc.I have to work today but I was hoping to get some feedback,good or bad

Are you suggesting that depression is dependent on a person's beliefs? Suffering happens to everyone equally, but by degree unequally. Read this recent post for a clear picture of how suffering works. LINK How we live our lives and how we approach suffering determines the outcome. Depression comes from incorrect choices over time. Some depression is inherited, but can still be overcome.

For me, God is my answer to suffering. I take no medications that are not needed to life to the next day. A person who is truly living by faith is filled with joy and peace already, even if suffering is present. When challenges are faced, loved ones can be relied on to fill the gap. A true believer also has prayer to answer every need. When life is lived by faith and not sight, peace results from truth. Truth can set you free.

1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

A person trapped by the sufferings of this life are on the wrong side of suffering. When a reward is taken and not earned, then suffering follows. Taking drugs is a good example of taking reward that was not earned. Although drugs can ease the immediate pain and can help those with true chemical deficiencies, the reality of a life lived is still present if sin is the root cause of the depression. If suffering is the work we do for others, then true peace and joy are the rewards. This type of work ends suffering.

Depression can have two causes. Suffering can be self-inflicted or it can be brought on by the choices of others. God's plan for man was to live under the nurture and love of the immediate family or clan. People, including Christians, have alienated themselves form their families in many cases from a lack of love in the heart. Love is the only medicine for depression. Chemical imbalance is a symptom and not a cause. Love must be gained by suffering for others.

1 Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

I'm not quite sure I understand your post completely. You and I both know that disease, be it physical or mental, was brought about by original sin. I believe that God can and does heal people, and we know that when He chooses for whatever reason not to heal someone then His grace is sufficient to see them through that illness.
Seeashrink

I think the common denominator between the two is gullibility. To be a Christian you have to have a certain gullibility.Similarly you need a certain gullibility to believe the big Pharma propaganda that anti-depressents actualy relieve depression. Many have found out the hard way that they do not, at least not in the long term and in a lot of cases can increase depression and also lead to other mental and physical disorders.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I'm not quite sure I understand your post completely. You and I both know that disease, be it physical or mental, was brought about by original sin. I believe that God can and does heal people, and we know that when He chooses for whatever reason not to heal someone then His grace is sufficient to see them through that illness.
Seeashrink

Of course. I agree with you. Love is the only drug we need. God's love is sufficient. I thought I made it clear. On the other hand, we inflict ourselves with suffering when reward is not earned. For instance, if we smoke, we get cancer. This is taking a reward that was not earned, creating a debt that must be paid. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but in this world, the debts we create will still end in suffering. Sin in the material world is present so we will suffer and reap what we sow. We are judged at the end of each life lived. After death, judgment. Jesus states in John 3, "You must be born again." We wait here in the material world for Christ to return. Salvation from this life only comes after Christ returns and the stone is rolled away leaving the empty tomb. The stone is our hardened hearts toward God.

Hebrews 9
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Where are we waiting when considering that we must be born again? The stone is the church built on Peter. Peter was the rock and the rock must be rolled away to reveal Christ. Christ called Peter Satan. Peter denied Christ. The church was built on this rock that must be rolled away to allow Christ to rise. The rock represents our choices in life to live according to the world or God. A hardened heart keeps the rock in place. If the heart is made into flesh by love, then the tomb entrance is opened.

Ez. 36

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.

Originally posted by auraelium
I think the common denominator between the two is gullibility. To be a Christian you have to have a certain gullibility.Similarly you need a certain gullibility to believe the big Pharma propaganda that anti-depressents actualy relieve depression. Many have found out the hard way that they do not, at least not in the long term and in a lot of cases can increase depression and also lead to other mental and physical disorders.

I would need to challenge this gullibility idea. Can you demonstrate one thing apart from thought and movement that you do to produce your life? Just one. One is all you need to disprove God. If you cannot name one that you do apart form thought and movement to produce your life, then gullibility is in your court. The most obvious conclusion is that we simply ride the vehicle we have been given. If our existence cannot be traced to us or the material world's ability to design bio-mechanical life, then we are the result of design to the nano degree of engineering to purpose. This is obvious. Gullibility comes form thinking that man is the means to his own end.

Who is gullible here? I have evidence for how reality was designed.

Did God get the basics of physics correct?

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Did God get the basics of quantum weirdness correct?

Hebrews 11 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Can we describe our reality of light, energy and information by God's design of us 'in' an image?

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Am I 'in' the image of ATS right now? How do we see God's image as a creation?

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

We are a moving and thinking image of energy in motion. You move and you think. That's all you do to produce your existence. The image is God's work.

Who is gullible again?

As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite. Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe. The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both. Heaven and earth are the image of energy in motion. Truth can set you free, even from depression.

I'm curious as to why you pointed out Christians as the major group? Is this another Christian bashing thread?
I see them every day. Seems to be some sort of hatred for them. Anyway you do not seem to understand depression.
In the majority of cases it is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain. World wide it is on the increase, especially in the Middle East which is by and large, not a Christian community at all. If you wish to have a look at some studies do a search on depression and chemical imbalance. Or you could begin by going to the link below.

psychcentral.com...

. It is a disease/illness just like say diabetes. Now diabetes is on the rise to and I suppose it is only Christians that have that as well?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by auraelium
I think the common denominator between the two is gullibility. To be a Christian you have to have a certain gullibility.Similarly you need a certain gullibility to believe the big Pharma propaganda that anti-depressents actualy relieve depression. Many have found out the hard way that they do not, at least not in the long term and in a lot of cases can increase depression and also lead to other mental and physical disorders.

I would need to challenge this gullibility idea. Can you demonstrate one thing apart from thought and movement that you do to produce your life? Just one. One is all you need to disprove God. If you cannot name one that you do apart form thought and movement to produce your life, then gullibility is in your court. The most obvious conclusion is that we simply ride the vehicle we have been given. If our existence cannot be traced to us or the material world's ability to design bio-mechanical life, then we are the result of design to the nano degree of engineering to purpose. This is obvious. Gullibility comes form thinking that man is the means to his own end.

Who is gullible here? I have evidence for how reality was designed.

Did God get the basics of physics correct?

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Did God get the basics of quantum weirdness correct?

Hebrews 11 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Can we describe our reality of light, energy and information by God's design of us 'in' an image?

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Am I 'in' the image of ATS right now? How do we see God's image as a creation?

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

We are a moving and thinking image of energy in motion. You move and you think. That's all you do to produce your existence. The image is God's work.

Who is gullible again?

As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite. Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe. The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both. Heaven and earth are the image of energy in motion. Truth can set you free, even from depression.

I would answer this if it made sense, the question you pose certainly doesnt.The owness is on christians to prove God exists not the other way around. I can say god is a fluffy rabbit that lives in the constalation of zog, prove me wrong? if you say something exists then its up to you to prove it does,Its not up to me to prove it doesnt.
You try to mix bible quotes with quntum physics and try to find similaritys,you say that 4 words in a bible quote "beginning" ,"earth" ,"light" ,"heavens" are proof that quantum physics is being discribed, but these are just everyday words that people use. Its proof of nothing. if what you say is true thwn all quantum physisists would be christians, but they are not.

You say that God made man in his image and likeness,prove it..... you cant, all you can do is quote some verse from a book where someone says it is true.why should i belive you? why should i belive the guy who said so in the book?
I shouldnt, because im not gullible. You say im gullible but then you come along and take some book that someone wrote that makes all these fantastic claims, and claim these writings are absolute fact even though the same book offers no proof....funny that.

reply to post by auraelium

I would answer this if it made sense, the question you pose certainly doesnt.The owness is on christians to prove God exists not the other way around. I can say god is a fluffy rabbit that lives in the constalation of zog, prove me wrong? if you say something exists then its up to you to prove it does,Its not up to me to prove it doesnt.
You try to mix bible quotes with quntum physics and try to find similaritys,you say that 4 words in a bible quote "beginning" ,"earth" ,"light" ,"heavens" are proof that quantum physics is being discribed, but these are just everyday words that people use. Its proof of nothing. if what you say is true thwn all quantum physisists would be christians, but they are not.

You say that God made man in his image and likeness,prove it..... you cant, all you can do is quote some verse from a book where someone says it is true.why should i belive you? why should i belive the guy who said so in the book?
I shouldnt, because im not gullible. You say im gullible but then you come along and take some book that someone wrote that makes all these fantastic claims, and claim these writings are absolute fact even though the same book offers no proof....funny that.

Of course we cannot prove it. Evidence only leads to the a conclusion based on the best available thought and theory. Science continues to leave the pre-existence of consciousness out of the theory because this implies God. All of nature implies God. Can we prove this? Not a chance. Can we prove String or M-Theory? Not a chance. These only point directly back to God. God is a much better way to describe the theory. The theory is a poor way to describe the God who originated the theory. Gullibility is believing that consciousness is not responsible for collapsing the indeterminate wave of probability. Science suggests that consciousness is the producer of the material world, not the other way around.

Another theory that leads directly to a designer as a conclusion is entropy in information. Don't confuse this with entropy in energy. We can reasonably expect a bit of information to degrade with entropy over time. States change and resolve to equalibrium. Life is the only part of reality that can be shown to decrease entropy in information over time. In other worlds, life goes against the loss of data in information. On top of this paradox for science, information contained in life is digital. 3 billion characters in the alphabet of DNA and locked in a 4 bit cipher.

An acorn has a 75 foot oak tree enfolded into it. That little seed is digital information that expresses to form by transmuting matter and energy into more matter and energy. Gullible is believing that this is some result of nature moving information to complexity and design with purpose against entropy in information. See it for what it is. I am not the gullible one. Logic and reason make rational belief based on the information available. Science is blind to God for one reason. Their equations leave out consciousness and God.

Pride is where this started for man when we were given a choice to seek the fruit of knowledge by walking with God or walking on our own in pride. We selected the walk of toil. God placed a flaming sword at the center of the Garden to protect the tree of life. The tree of life can only be accessed by removing the consuming fire of God. The job of the consuming fire is to cut away our pride. Once removed, we are free to partake of the tree of life. Knowledge is earned by toil or given by God in love. We must love him to receive the truth by faith. Pride blinds the mind of science because of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is to consciousness of God.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by auraelium

 

I would answer this if it made sense, the question you pose certainly doesnt.The owness is on christians to prove God exists not the other way around. I can say god is a fluffy rabbit that lives in the constalation of zog, prove me wrong? if you say something exists then its up to you to prove it does,Its not up to me to prove it doesnt.
You try to mix bible quotes with quntum physics and try to find similaritys,you say that 4 words in a bible quote "beginning" ,"earth" ,"light" ,"heavens" are proof that quantum physics is being discribed, but these are just everyday words that people use. Its proof of nothing. if what you say is true thwn all quantum physisists would be christians, but they are not.

You say that God made man in his image and likeness,prove it..... you cant, all you can do is quote some verse from a book where someone says it is true.why should i belive you? why should i belive the guy who said so in the book?
I shouldnt, because im not gullible. You say im gullible but then you come along and take some book that someone wrote that makes all these fantastic claims, and claim these writings are absolute fact even though the same book offers no proof....funny that.

Of course we cannot prove it. Evidence only leads to the a conclusion based on the best available thought and theory. Science continues to leave the pre-existence of consciousness out of the theory because this implies God. All of nature implies God. Can we prove this? Not a chance. Can we prove String or M-Theory? Not a chance. These only point directly back to God. God is a much better way to describe the theory. The theory is a poor way to describe the God who originated the theory. Gullibility is believing that consciousness is not responsible for collapsing the indeterminate wave of probability. Science suggests that consciousness is the producer of the material world, not the other way around.



Another theory that leads directly to a designer as a conclusion is entropy in information. Don't confuse this with entropy in energy. We can reasonably expect a bit of information to degrade with entropy over time. States change and resolve to equalibrium. Life is the only part of reality that can be shown to decrease entropy in information over time. In other worlds, life goes against the loss of data in information. On top of this paradox for science, information contained in life is digital. 3 billion characters in the alphabet of DNA and locked in a 4 bit cipher.

An acorn has a 75 foot oak tree enfolded into it. That little seed is digital information that expresses to form by transmuting matter and energy into more matter and energy. Gullible is believing that this is some result of nature moving information to complexity and design with purpose against entropy in information. See it for what it is. I am not the gullible one. Logic and reason make rational belief based on the information available. Science is blind to God for one reason. Their equations leave out consciousness and God.

Pride is where this started for man when we were given a choice to seek the fruit of knowledge by walking with God or walking on our own in pride. We selected the walk of toil. God placed a flaming sword at the center of the Garden to protect the tree of life. The tree of life can only be accessed by removing the consuming fire of God. The job of the consuming fire is to cut away our pride. Once removed, we are free to partake of the tree of life. Knowledge is earned by toil or given by God in love. We must love him to receive the truth by faith. Pride blinds the mind of science because of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is to consciousness of God.

edit on 1-10-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

If you cant prove it why should i believe it? You can dress it up any way you like gullibility is believing something without proof.You say all of nature implies god, its a ridiculas statement.Things in nature that we dont understand doesnt prove the existance of God,It just means we cant understand them yet.You are going in to great detail to try and explain your opinion, but its all in vain because you have absolutely no proof.you have nothing only opinion mixed with fantasy that comes from a book.You try to keep science on your side but then you make a claim like "God placed a flaming sword at the center of the Garden to protect the tree of life." Thats just fantasy.It says so in your book so it must be true.
Again you accuse me of being gullible , to be gullible you have to believe something, im not beliveing anything so you cant accuse me of being gullible, your just using double speak to turn it round on me.