The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

reply to post by Misoir


That was the way it used to be when I was growing up, the education for all was turn into abig scam for banksters to get young people into becoming slaves in debt

Prior to students loans and private colleges education was subsided by the government, my tuitions back in the 70s were about 100 dollars per semester, you have to earn the right to be in college with hard work and good grades, I earned two grants, for those that could not get into college, the schools used to do all kind of training in vocational work, but that was a time also when America used to have a great production base and opportunities were everywhere, jobs were available they were not the minimum wage jobs we have now they were the jobs that supported the middle class.

You didn't have to get a college education to have a great paying job.

When the bankster started to give away loans for those that could not earn grands to attend Universities the expensive and over priced private colleges were created. But with that the creation of debt also came to be.

Now you can not attend any college in this nation unless you get into loans to pay for it because no even the grands given are enough.

edit on 29-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Daedal

David Dellinger,key figure in mobilizing the protests in 1968 against the Pentagon and the Vietnam Protest at the 1968 Democratic National Convention.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by morder1

 

I still think the movement is shady as far as who is behind the motivation and my fellow American's are getting duped in my opinion as well and I only hope that none of them get hurt in the process.

For those who think the movement is shady, I think it is just a natural gut reaction because we are all conditioned to believe that anyone who would step forward would be doing so for selfish reasons.

I may be naive, but I'm choosing to believe (for now) that this is a pure movement based on honorable intentions.

Also, do you know that they have two general assemblies a day where they make decisions based on consensus. If there was one person or corporation behind this, I don't think they would be able to do that. It seems pretty transparent and honest at the moment.

reply to post by Misoir


The other problem with govt funded education is that once again it is corrupted by corporations with very specific interest in what it is final product of a K-12 education--ie a bunch of drones who can bubble in answers to standardized test questions, but not think outside the box. At least privately funded colleges still make some attempt at creating innovative, free-thinkers.

reply to post by jenk1013


I agree, it started out with the best of intentions, but the lack of structure and organization paired with no predetermined agenda has set this movement up for disaster. Just because they take a concensus based on who is there doesn't make it any less prone to hijacking. That just tells us that it is under "mob rule" and whoever the mob is at that time is in control.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam

Let's just say that someone who would never benefit from civil protest decided to employ thugs to turn this thing violent, how long do you think we would still be able to legally protest?

Why do you want to assume the worst of these people?

With or without your approval, this protest was bound to happen sooner or later. Things are occurring as they should and the chips will fall where they may. The government and Wall Street surely should have expected this type of thing to happen. You can't keep screwing over the population and think that people aren't eventually going to assemble in mass.

I think these protestors are doing a damn good job of being peaceful after this many days.

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
First let me say that I think that this whole thing is very misguided and seems to have no consideration for the collateral damage that it cause if they actually did accomplish their goals.

Second, I can't help but notice how easily this movement could be hijacked to serve a much more sinister purpose.

Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing here?

No, I'm sorry. I really am not seeing what you are seeing. What is wrong with taking the power back from the corporate elite and giving to the people? Because the way I see it, right now people only think they have power/choice, but they do not.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam

who's gonna stand up and say that can't take that right away?

We are!

If we could get our act together and stand up as a nation and tell them we are sick of it, there will be a peaceful transition to a new government.

How we do that is the real question, but I won't give up my rights in the meantime.

Originally posted by Screwed

Originally posted by Misoir
alienate Conservatives such as me.

There's the problem right there.
Maybe when you decide to do as these people have done and step outside of the mental prison you are in, you can begin to see that the only label which truely fits you is not "conservative" it is "Human".

You see youself as "A conservative" so that is all you will ever be.

"Ohhhh no, I am much more than that" you say.
"I am also a Christian".

Yup, another mind prison.

You are neither "Christian" nor "Conservative".
You are both, THE creation and the creatOR.
You have the ability to see beyond all of this if you should so choose.
But first, you must remove the shackles from your mind.

I swear if I could give you 20 stars I would right now. PERFECTLY written!

Originally posted by NightGypsy

Why do you want to assume the worst of these people?

I am not assuming the worst about them, I am simply pointing out that they have set themselves up to be played by the ones who they are against. You can't just do something like this as random collectives, without a clear agenda it will either be ineffective or corrupted.

reply to post by jenk1013


My dear, perhaps this days is like that, but when I was in school back in the 70s were the days of most of college protest around, I participated in many, education was the best I can remember and US use to be the leader of education in the world, now where are we on education now? Compare to other developed nations? 18 overall and 25 in math.

reply to post by jenk1013


so you're okay with communism? that's what taking power from the elite and giving it to the people is all about...

You have a point Misoir, but you go way too far out with it.
There is room for order and priority in the new society or nobody will go.....
The basic tenets of our lives must be turned upside down to make a fresh start to some degree....
Firstly there are excellent schools like MIT or others which accept only the best and brightest .....so a certain amount of discrimination is in place....
There are other universities which specialise in certain fields as well.....
Point is that even if lots stay in free schoool all their lives,
There will still be those who learn and do and contribute to the furtherance of humanity.
If money was less important an object, then perhaps many more people would find the time to develope their real talent instead of slaving away to exist and slowly sinking.
There are all kinds of counter benefits to a new system which has other values than money or production of useless items.
There is NO one in this world who should be in control of a billion dollars worth of influence,
One man one vote.....this is the rule that makes democracy work.
As we begin to socialise goverment into parties we lose the essence of the democracy our fathers created.
What is the great attraction to being a Republican?Democrat?
These are groups of people who are following their herd.They are not free to start with....
Not free to say what they think, nor free to think outside of party lines etc...
Imagine the snubbing a republican would get for being pro socialised medicine.
No more free tickets to the policemans ball for him!
Seriously though think about the mob mentality which political parties take advantage of...us agin them soort of crap...etc.
Somehow, someway, we have got to get around the worship of money before we can progress further....
this is the great stumbling block put before the people.....
If they werent cutting paychecks how much loyalty would the PTB get?
We need to form a free society right here, right now, right under the noses of the PTB!
And we need to tale stock of ourselves and know what we really require to live free.
It isnt anyhting physical...
Its a matter of the heart.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


And when the elite can manipulate government and own whores in congress like they do now to make laws in their favor and bail them out when they gamble with their wealth and those of the people that trusts them, is call slavery.

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
reply to post by jenk1013

 

so you're okay with communism? that's what taking power from the elite and giving it to the people is all about...

Ive never really studied communism, only the propaganda ive heard, you know... its bad its bad its bad

So if communism really only means giving power to the people, then heck yeah im all for it, why should a handful of people control every aspect of our culture

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Alright I would like to say that the real problem is beyond something artificial. Yes there are too many people attending colleges who would do better elsewhere but the reason they are attending these colleges is due to the coercion of business, academia, and the government. As noted by other members here the real problem is that banks found they could shackle students who need the degrees with debt because the big businesses shipped our jobs overseas which did not require a college degree to earn a good income.

This creates student debts which imprison us to them, we are shackled with these debts which also have interest. Instead of telling them to go spin we need the education but colleges have raised the prices so high, perhaps in collaboration with banks and government, so that we need these loans. The schools get the money, which is then actually given to these professors if they spend more time out of the classroom than in it. Teaching actually earns them less money, stupid I know. But the schools get the money, banks get the debt slaves, and the government encourages this to continue.

They intentionally destroy the education system so that banks and colleges can get money. That is the real problem, if we can solve that then we can solve the student debt problem and the loss of value in degrees.

Originally posted by CheshireR
reply to post by Misoir

 

I wouldn't start forbidding knowledge to people that aren't as smart as the others.

It's not forbidden. You can audit for free on-line. You just don't get the little paper that says you're qualified.

It should always be a right to be able to choose to learn about whatever you want. What's next? Imposing jobs and careers on people out of their competence test results? Are you the very fascist we want to get rid of in this government?

you're missing the point. We really only want in most jobs the best person for the job. When everyone can get the same little paper, the paper means nothing.

You can have the highest education and be the smartest yet do nothing with it out of laziness or lack of motivation. Strange, but I find that the people that actually had to study hard for their grades went further than some smart ones.

Yes, and a lot of the smart ones fail in college for their laziness. I was one of the "high GPAs" 3.7? 3.6? Averaged around a 3.5 or higher most of college, but I dropped out because of a lack of discipline. No offense, I didn't get the paper--and he's still right.

I really think that list is too long. Those are the details,,, the symptoms. They are covered in one overriding corruptive influence within our political system. Money money money.

They should have remained focused on that one KEY building block of corporatacracy. Gotta pick your battles and prioritize. I don't mean toss the list, but to determine a primary objective and hammer it. You will likely get more people on board with a more narrowed focus that most everyone will likely agree with, than with a list of demands that everyone will argue about.

Having read the points of where they are upset at, some of which can be stated on.

The first thing that can be stated, is that this is the first protest, where the actual points are outlined out in a way that is clear and concise. However, after reading what is written the following can be stated:

1) Ultimately, I would disagree with this point, not cause what the banking system did was wrong, but ultimately, it falls back to the people. We the people cried cause we could not afford the loans in the first point, and demanded change, then turned around and the politicians, who we elected, that deregulated and pushed the banks into giving and making risky loans. Then the bankers all around tried to prevent their assets from going down, and sold said debts. So this is a blame that has to go on both sides of the issue.

2) If it is a company that took a loan from the government, then the complaint is valid, however, not every company took a loan, got part of the bailout, so not every one of those companies would have to play by the rules. So that point is both correct and faulty in its nature.

3) With all of the laws, and a population willing to sue and show discrimination, the question is how is this possible? More and more women are taking more of a leading role in business and industry.

4) How are they poisoning the food supply and undermining the farming system? A lot of that is controlled by the federal government, not through Wall Street. All wall street does is bid on what the outcome of a harvest would be, not control policies.

5) Last time any one worked, and in most work places, there are posted, as it is federal laws that dictate such, a list of the rights of workers. All companies have to follow those laws, or risk being sued and or facing federal punishments on that.

6) Higher education is not a human right. Basic education can be argued as such, but not higher education, and those who would teach are not held to the same regulations and constraints as those in the public sector.

7) And profits are what drives a company, most are not in the business to be charitable. However, the tax codes are written to encourage businesses to be charitable, thus they use that to allow for them to do endowments, grants and fund non profit businesses.

8) Can it be proven? After all a judges decision, unlike the rest of the government, has to clearly write down the reason for their decision, based off of prior decisions and precedents set by court cases before them.

9) Unfortunately, the problem is that they are having to answer to the stockholders, who hold the controlling interest in a corporation. If a company can not make a profit, and give a return on the investments by the stockholders, then ultimately, the board is replaced. The fault lies with the federal government. Consider this, you can drive and move from one state to another, your auto insurance transfers, however, health insurance does not. Health insurance holds one of the biggest monopolies in the country. Remove that protection, and watch health insurance costs, the medical costs drop.

10) That point is a valid one. I get way too much spam.

11) Have yet to see where the military or the police is used to prevent freedom of the press.

12) As soon as a faulty product is discovered, they recall it, however here again, the laws and regulations lies within the government.

13) How does a business on wall street determine the economic policy of the nation? After all last time it was checked, the local, state, federal governments that put restraints on businesses, not Wall Street.

14) That is the pot calling the kettle black, especially when the Unions are involved. After all the Unions are some of the biggest contributors to a politicians monetary supply and thus try to gather favor, if not regulate them.

15) Solendra energy anyone? After all it was an alternative form of energy, and ultimately it went belly up. Reality is that here again it is the Federal Government that controls that, and it is what is keeping us energy dependant.

16) FDA anyone? After all it is the organization that controls what drugs are released in the USA and what is not.

17) Last oil spill that was reported, well lets just say there was no shortage of coverage what so every. The oil industry in the US is one of the most heavily watched and regulated in the country. Funny how everyone complains about the price of gas, yet when asked about a refinery in their state or town, every one bulks at it. Then there is one little agency with way too much authority and power, called the EPA.

18) Last time I checked, each station gives its spin on the news, to include commentary as they see fit. And ratings equals money.

19) How has wall street had any point on direction of the country? It can not claim another piece of land or territory.

20) Wall Street does this?

21) Um, does anyone know how a weapon gets created? It requires 3 things: 1) A need for such. 2) A government willing to back the creation of such. 3) Money. Here again, it goes back to the Federal government wanting such.

22) Well here there is going to be a point of contention as most laws state that those with the person committing the crime is equally guilty, as they did not try to stop or do anything to show that they were not associated with such. The person may not have pulled the trigger of the weapon, but he did nothing to stop or prevent, or even turn in the person until after he was picked up by the police.

Ultimately, they have the right idea on protesting, but they are protesting the wrong people, rather going after those whose sole interest is in making money, not policy. Any of what they have complaints about, goes back to the government, and namely the federal government, as they are the ones who set the policies, laws and regulations. Ultimately many of their complaints, need to be further investigated, as it all tends to go back to the Federal government and what it does, not to Wall Street, that reacts to the laws, policies and regulations that the federal government puts out.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


Communism has failed miserably, so clearly human beings aren't capable of living under that model. In theory, I do support it, but in practice I don't feel it can work.

So what is the answer? I don't have a clue. I just feel like it is time to stop throwing up our hands and giving up. We need to take back the power from the elite and let our voices be heard. To me, that isn't communism--that is a true democracy.