What made you first suspect that the 9/11 official story was false.

When I learned about Bill Cooper's prediction that OBL had been interviewed by a CNN crew who warned of an attack in the works. He went on to predict that an attack would happen in the next year and that OBL would be blamed for it but it wouldn't be OBL. It would be TPTB.

The passport issue was also very suspicious.

Also, G W Bush stating almost immediately that they knew who it was and even had a motive already "because they hate us for our freedoms" seemed a bit too contrived to me. At least look into it George and wait for the terrorists to claim a victory.
Al Quaida did not claim victory, in fact they denied involvement which kind of goes against the grain of carrying out a terrorist attack altogether does it not? Surely you would want to take credit if indeed your plans were successful?

Honestly, it was the existence of the documentaries. I would love to say that I had niggles from the start - but the whole thing seemed too much to be an internal conspiracy. I began watching a few documentaries, thinking that were probably wrong and they'd be easy to debunk. I did see a few lame arguments from some suspected shills, but then I came across some stuff that I had a real hard time with - ie the multiple problems with building seven. So hats off to those who made that stuff known to us, as I hadn't even been aware of that building. The testimonies of the firefighters are also compelling.

Years and years before 9/11 happened friend. i learned that any goverment lies to its population. so i guess for me when i learned that the goverment tested lsd on american soilders.i found this time line. i knew of all this somewhere aroung 1987 or so.

A History Of US Secret Human Experimentation
3-25-3 1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD. 1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.
1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.
1947 The CIA begins its study of '___' as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.
1950 I n an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.
1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

1955 Army Chemical Corps continues '___' research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1958 '___' is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of '___' in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine

1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by psikeyhackr
So there was lots of talk in the frat about skyscrapers.

The mass of such a structure and the way the STEEL HAD TO BE DISTRIBUTED makes the idea of a measly airliner impact and fire from the fuel totally ridiculous as a cause for the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of those building.

Wow. Well if this conspiracy was talked about in a frat house, that certainly gives it legitimacy

Seriously though, I am an architect and I have no idea what you're trying to say about "the way the steel had to be distributed". The design of the twin towers was such that they did not have "field" columns, all the columns were located in the core area.

Well dude you just LIED there!

There were 47 columns in THE CORE. And there were 236 columns on the perimeter.

The NIST report says that 53% of the weight was supported by the core and 47% was by the perimeter.

So maybe you are lying about being an architect also. The standard joke at Illinois Institute of Technology was that "architects study funny physics and funny math".

So if you are an architect what does your statement say about you? It is easy for anyone to research the perimeter columns of the towers. You have had TEN YEARS to research this.

whatreallyhappened.com...

Come back and tell us some more obviously stupid lies.

psik

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by psikeyhackr
So there was lots of talk in the frat about skyscrapers.

The mass of such a structure and the way the STEEL HAD TO BE DISTRIBUTED makes the idea of a measly airliner impact and fire from the fuel totally ridiculous as a cause for the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of those building.

But you are greatly underestimating the power of fire. These buildings did not have sprinkler systems, so they were susceptible to serious damage by any kind of a fire if it wasn't put out before burning through the steel's fireproofing. Offices are chock full of flammable material, not just all the paper but even the fabrics and woods in the furniture are highly flammable. Douse all that in aviation fuel and you've got a serious fire that will burn extremely hot for hours.

Now this is really funny.

As detailed in the new issue of Aluminum International Today, Simensen argues that molten aluminum from the airplane bodies chemically reacted with water in the buildings' sprinkler systems, setting off the explosions that felled the twin towers.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Our brilliant architect says that the towers did not have a sprinkler system but the NEW THEORY explaining the collapse depends on water in the sprinkler systems.



Any wonder why this crap has dragged on for TEN YEARS? Who are all of these idiots talking this bullsh#?

psik

the passport thing started it all for me...

then came the bit about the government not releasing the pentagon footage....

and then building 7...

then... Bush 2 saying "let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories"...(meaning, he realised people were on to him)

but I "got it" upon hearing about the passport surviving the fireball.

All hail the official story. If its on the MSM it HAS to be true.

WE, the ones who doubt... are paranoid....insane... deluded.

Yes sir...the MSM is a source of truth.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I can't remember a specific detail that made me think "inside job", but it started out with the Loose Change film that made me extremely skeptical. Then I started doing my own research, and found out about AE911 Truth and organizations like that, and lots of the stuff I've seen has me convinced that the Twin Towers and WTC7 were brought down by a controlled demolition. They have lots of interviews with experts on their YouTube page, some documentaries, experiments, and stuff like that.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
the passport thing started it all for me...

Well the passport survived, whether you like it or not.

reply to post by waypastvne


yeah... and the fact that it did got me suspicious to begin with.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by psikeyhackr
So there was lots of talk in the frat about skyscrapers.

The mass of such a structure and the way the STEEL HAD TO BE DISTRIBUTED makes the idea of a measly airliner impact and fire from the fuel totally ridiculous as a cause for the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of those building.

Wow. Well if this conspiracy was talked about in a frat house, that certainly gives it legitimacy

Seriously though, I am an architect and I have no idea what you're trying to say about "the way the steel had to be distributed". The design of the twin towers was such that they did not have "field" columns, all the columns were located in the core area. The "core" is kept to the center of the building and is where you locate vertical transportation, restrooms, exit corridors, mechanical & electrical rooms, vertical shafts, etc.

Another curious thing "oh great architect". I have never seen anyone use the term "field" columns about this subject before. I did a Google search. Where does anybody say "field columns". Trying to give people the impression you are an EXPERT. Making up your own jargon?

psik

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The fact that life evolved on this planet is much more unlikely than the passport surviving and yet here we are.

The passport survived the crash, it's a fact, deal with it.

reply to post by psikeyhackr


Can't you see clearly, the planes hit the towers, fires started, and then the building collapsed, the NIST report says this, the poster above says this, so it must be true.

In other news I saw a magician turn a rabbit into a dove.

OT its always been the collapse speeds of the towers, 9 and 11 seconds officially!

Originally posted by yyyyyyyyyy
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Can't you see clearly, the planes hit the towers, fires started, and then the building collapsed, the NIST report says this, the poster above says this, so it must be true.

In other news I saw a magician turn a rabbit into a dove.

OT its always been the collapse speeds of the towers, 9 and 11 seconds officially!

Sure I can see. But I don't have X-ray vision and neither does anyone else. How much steel was on the 81st level of the south tower? Why isn't that common knowledge after TEN YEARS.

The idea of fire weakening enough steel to support another 29 stories in less than one hour is hilariously STUPID. And then the bottom of the 29 stories moving horizontally 20 feet in a couple of seconds 55 minutes after the plane impact when the airliner impact only shifted that level 15 inches is even more ridiculous.

The United States should be laughed at for the next 1000 years.

The NIST report can't even specify the total amount of concrete in the towers.

psik

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I was watching live that morning. I saw the second plane hit as it happened. I was living on Hurlburt Field (Special Operations Command) and I saw and heard the fighter jets scrambling, the base locked down, Air Force 1 make a brief stop over, etc. I am a pilot (private / not AF), and I know how the towers react to planes being off course, etc.

I became suspicious when the plane hit the Pentagon, and the stories about the passengers on the phone when the plane went down in Shanksville. It was unbelieveable to me that after the first 2 strikes, the other planes would still be flying around, basically undetected or undeterred. No way our Department of Defense allows the strike on the Pentagon, or the plane in Pennsylvania.

I would have believed the official story if they said they shot down the Shanksville plane. I might have believed it if the towers hadn't fallen in exactly the same manner as one another. I might have believed it if they hadn't recovered so much convenient evidence.

I wasn't suspicious at all until the official stories started coming out, and those stories were offensive to me. They were a slap in the face that insulted our collective intelligence. They were intentionally false stories to basically send the message to the public that our government will do and say anything they want, and we will just lap it up. I consider the official stories to be an extended part of the terrorism. They attacked our intelligence and our will-power with that crap. They didn't even try to make it believeable.

Originally posted by yyyyyyyyyy

OT its always been the collapse speeds of the towers, 9 and 11 seconds officially!

You might want to go back and double-check what those official 9 and 11 seconds represent, they are not the collapse times.

I was only 12 on 9/11 so obviously I was just plain terrified and believed the OS.

Later on in high school I had this awesome teacher who always showed us cool things he recorded on TV. When he first showed me the moon landing hoax one (the one that aired on Fox, I believe), I believed the arguments presented. I had him again a year later and he showed us a video about 9/11 conspiracies. At the time, I thought "Well obviously they could have faked the moon landing, but the government attacking us? That's just insane". It took awhile for the facts to sink in and I reversed my stance on BOTH conspiracies. I no longer believe the moon landing was a hoax (this is for a different thread), but now I believe 9/11 was at the very least allowed to happen and even possibly orchestrated by the U.S. itself.

The catalyst for me was the fact that there was obviously no (large) plane to hit the pentagon. My mom believes the OS but was actually the one to tell me she believed a missile hit the pentagon. She thought the government was just covering up the missile for innocent reasons, such as the missile merely hitting off target. I realized if the government had to lie about just one thing that happened that day what else were they lying about?

So I looked into the actual events of that day- building 7, the miracle passports, the phone calls made from the planes all point to many unanswered questions.

Incidentally, while researching 9/11 I ended up reading an interview with some NFL player and I saw him mention a book called "Crossing the Rubicon". I actually bought the book. It's over 500 pages and it outlines very clearly how and why 9/11 was carried out. I've researched the author on here before (Michael C. Ruppert) and he doesn't seem to have much credibility with ATSers but I honestly can't distinguish between slanderous disinformation and legitimate claims about his credibility. Either way, if you are a so-called "truther" (what a term!), this is the only book you'll ever need to read about 9/11.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I just wanted to let you know I love everything you said.

You're absolutely right, they definitely could have lied A LOT better!

reply to post by waypastvne

The first fragments of the outer walls of the collapsed North Tower struck the ground 11 seconds after the collapse started, and parts of the South Tower after 9 seconds

en.wikipedia.org... ade_Center#Collapse_of_the_South_Tower

Fair play, waypastvne

Owe i saved the best for last, and that is when the media showed a George Bush with a book upside down at the elementary school that day. With his demeanor portraying; one that has just took the cookies out of the cookie jar, but was unsure of the owner's awareness of the cookies.

Lastly, when he told the American public to go shopping, thats right, go shopping, me and my cronies that read literature upside down. have it all under control

I knew we the American people were in trouble