Knesset to vote on annexing West Bank

Originally posted by MrEcho
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

" If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinsced even if someone rises from the dead".
Luke 16 : 31

And you expect me to enlighten you ??????

You try to prove yourself right no matter what anybody says, just take off the blinders.

It looks like Mr Echo gave Lemon a taste of his own religious medicine. Let's see where this goes. Are you ready to lie in the name of your bible as well?

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by RustyNailer

 

That because there was never a nation called Palestine...ever. That is Israels ancient homeland and they have every right to live there and live in peace from bloodthirsty Islamo-Nazi psychopaths...

Did you read that in a book??
Can you actually prove it??

Which part Israel or Palestine?

If you're referring to ancient Israel look into roman history. Like the Nazi's, the Roman empire were meticulous record keepers. If that's not enough open a bible, thats at least a few thousand years old..isn't it?

If you're referring to Palestine ever being a nation. Then I challange you to tell me who founded Palestine. What was their national currency? What was their style of Government? Who was their first president? What were it's boarders and what wars had it fought? Good luck...

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I call Jews Against Zionism idiots for not knowing their own religion.

The Torah says that when and only when the Messiah comes (for the first time) the Jews who waited will be rewarded by God with the promised land, Palestine. To take it the way they did before it was 'time' is against Judaism.

Not that I believe that BS...Jewish or Christian... Jesus was a man, a rebel who fought for change and paid for it with his life. He died...and never came back. And never will come back.

Religion has been used for thousands of years to control people. The Zionists are no different than any of the other Zealots who came before them.

And if someone says that they are against Jews (not Israel, mind you), damn right I will call them an anti-semite.

Palestinians are Semites...this makes Zionists Anti-Semites as well.

Originally posted by MrEcho
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

" If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinsced even if someone rises from the dead".
Luke 16 : 31

Cool. Now we are pulling random bible quotes that have nothing to do with anything, and even taken out of context.

And yet you all say that I am using God and the Bible to further my "agenda."

Pot, meet kettle.

And you expect me to enlighten you ??????

Would be nice if you could provide some facts to back up your claims.

You try to prove yourself right no matter what anybody says, just take off the blinders.

I don't need to prove myself right. The facts I have presented do that for me.

Where are your facts at? And I have the blinders . . .

Which part Israel or Palestine? If you're referring to ancient Israel look into roman history. Like the Nazi's, the Roman empire were meticulous record keepers. If that's not enough open a bible, thats at least a few thousand years old..isn't it? If you're referring to Palestine ever being a nation. Then I challange you to tell me who founded Palestine. What was their national currency? What was their style of Government? Who was their first president? What were it's boarders and what wars had it fought? Good luck...

reply to post by RustyNailer


Are you serious? Your kind makes me sick?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed




It looks like Mr Echo gave Lemon a taste of his own religious medicine.

Again . . . please show me exactly where I have used religion in any of my arguments.

I will be waiting.

Let's see where this goes.

Aint going nowhere, as it is totally irrelevant.

Are you ready to lie in the name of your bible as well?

lalalala LIAR lalalala

Originally posted by davidboullata

The Torah says that when and only when the Messiah comes (for the first time) the Jews who waited will be rewarded by God with the promised land, Palestine.

The core of the Promised Land is from the Jordan to the Mediterranean. This was given to Isaac. Ismael was given from the Euphrates to the Jordan. The whole of it was promised to Abraham.

In the end, the Tanakh states that Judah will return to the land first, and then their eyes will be open to their God.

I can provide exact verses, if you please.

To take it the way they did before it was 'time' is against Judaism.

Because their eyes are closed and do no not know their own scriptures, like I said.


EDIT:

DISCLAIMER - I am not basing my position on any religious context. Just having this conversation, and that is it.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Too many tough questions make you sick, or what?

Ones religious believes does not grant someone the right to real estate. Period.

Israelis are not granted nor guaranteed land, because it is written in a book. A book that was itself written by man. You can argue till your blue in the face about who was there first. It doesn't matter. The land was not Israels.

In 1948, the British Mandate of Palestine ended. Do you see the word there? Let me write it again. PALESTINE. Anyway, at the same time, the Israeli Declaration of Independence was put out. Notice how Israelis didn't need permission from the UN or other countries to gain statehood. But thats another topic.

Anyway, during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, over 700,000 Arab Palestinians were expelled from their homes or left amongst fears(known as the Nabka). After the Deir Yassin Massacre, a lot of Palestinians feared for their lives. Towards the end of the war, more were expelled under the Israeli "Plan Dalet".

Later Israel was willing to let 100,000 Palestinians to return. How generous of them. Their return was conditional. They would only be allowed back if Israel was allowed to keep all the land it had captured during the war. Also, they wanted other Arab states to take all of the renaming refugees.

In 1949, Israel signed an Armistice which effectively formed the "Green Line". This territory included the land stated by the UN, along with 3/4 of Palestine.

SINCE THEN, Israel has continued to push into Palestinian territory. They have continued to take land, expel Palestinians from their homes, and basically carry out ethnic cleansing.

Israel is an apartheid state. They segregate the Arab population, blockade them in with walls, and deny them goods or service. They are carrying out ethnic cleansing of the Arab population. All under the guise of religion. That their "god" said they could.

When the world stops believing in fairy tales, or at least learns to separate religion from life, the world will be a better place. Until then, I remain disgusted by Israel's actions. Good day.

I said good day..

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Have you considered that at the time of Jesus there was already a sizeable population of Jews living in what was to become Europe, from Southern France and up through Germany specifically? And that it was the descendants of those Jews who 2-thousand years later, arrived on the shores of Palestine demanding "their" country back?

When the Romans renamed the land Philistine it was to spite the Jews who were living in The Holy Land after their failed rebellion and to rob them of their nationhood....where exactly do you think those people went? Really?? Where did they all go? Did all the Jews just get up and leave and the Romans trucked in a new population of non-Jewish Semites? No. They stayed there, they worked the land, they built their cities and re-built their cities endured invasion after invasion after invasion...they adopted the languages of their new masters...and indeed they adopted the religions of their new masters, too.

It doesn't take an anthropologist to see that the Palestinians of today are the direct descendants of the biblical Jews...whether you're looking at side-to-side photographs of European Jews and Palestinians...or looking down through a telescope at DNA.

Stop being naïve, Palestine is just a name...

They are not fighting for a name on a map...they are fighting for their rights as human beings...they are fighting for their rights to be recognized...and who are we to deny them that?

An essay/article from 2005 is suggesting a Zionist separation of Judaism.


All the events of the 20th century Israel question actually points to economics as the main agenda.

Zionism - The separation of Ashkenazi from Mizrahi and Sephardi.
(as well as conflicts among Christians and Muslims and within each)


It seems also that, as with most Middle East nations, the resources of nations have been systematically funneled to the mainstream investment banks, with a minimum of wealth returned to the citizens. All pointing to a larger agenda by forces using every trick that will work to continue the siphoning.

The 3 Abrahamic religions are being used as scapegoats for financial gain.

(focusing on Judaism as the main target)

This view contradicts the mainstream Zionist narrative, which maintains that Zionism saved Mizrahi Jews. According to this view, the Mizrahi Jews were devout Zionists who deeply wished to leave the Diaspora and return to Zion. Zionism saved these Mizrahim when persecution in their Arab and Iranian homelands intensified after Israel's independence. It also rescued them from the backwardness of Arab society and introduced them to the technology and culture of the civilized world. Zionism helped them to overcome the disadvantages of the illiterate, despotic societies from which they came.

In contrast, post-Zionist Mizrahi writers believe that this official Zionist account is false and needs to be de-constructed. They maintain that the Mizrahim did not come from backward or primitive societies. Cities like Alexandria, Baghdad, and Istanbul were great metropolises of wealth and culture. Most Mizrahim had been exposed to Western culture and ideas since they came from countries once subject to British or French rule. The Mizrahim were also largely literate, if not highly educated. Most men and even some women could read the Torah.

Post-Zionism and the Sephardi Question

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by MrEcho
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

" If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinsced even if someone rises from the dead".
Luke 16 : 31

Cool. Now we are pulling random bible quotes that have nothing to do with anything, and even taken out of context.

And yet you all say that I am using God and the Bible to further my "agenda."

Pot, meet kettle.

And you expect me to enlighten you ??????

Would be nice if you could provide some facts to back up your claims.

You try to prove yourself right no matter what anybody says, just take off the blinders.

I don't need to prove myself right. The facts I have presented do that for me.

Where are your facts at? And I have the blinders . . .

edit on 9/30/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


I brought up the Aborigines just to show a point..

That being that you don't need pieces of paper or fancy names like Country or State..

If you are the long term inhabitants then you were deemed to own the land..

The "people we call Palestinians" were long term inhabitants of that land so IMO owned that land...

Let me break it down for you, Jesus was referring to Israel when he said "them" and his own forthcoming crucifixion and resurection, so when you asked me to show you what was wrong with Israel, I was only starting 2,000 years ago.

reply to post by RustyNailer

If you're referring to Palestine ever being a nation. Then I challange you to tell me who founded Palestine. What was their national currency? What was their style of Government? Who was their first president? What were it's boarders and what wars had it fought? Good luck...

The 'people we call Palestinians" inhabited the land, therefore it was theirs..

They don't need no silly titles or Governments..
They don't need currency or wars..

They just needed to be there and they were...

Get over it, you can't prove differently unless you look at fictitious books and even then the Israelites left the land many years ago..

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

All this over a damned plot of dirt, i swear its like watching 5 year olds fight over toys, minus the rockets and bombs. Someone needs to set these 2 nations down and give them a proverbial "spanking", since thats what you do to children who refuse to behave and act a fool more often than not.

I find it strange that a christian refers to that land as "a plot of dirt".
Well if thats how you see things, fine. To the Arabs living there before there the modern state of Israel was forme, see it as their home.

If the jews suffered in Germany, make their country in Germany at the expense of Germany... not in that "plot of dirt" at the expense of people who had nothing to do with jewish suffering ijn WW2. After the defeat of the Nazis, the jews could have enjoyed protection and continued to live in Europe... but no... they are given that "plot of dirt", like you say and basically started all the problems in the middle east.

And conveniently, all problems in the middle-east involving jews are blamed on the muslims... who have been living there for a long, long time.

reply to post by DerekJR321

Well said DerekJR321, bravo!

I do have a pet-peeve that I'd like you to consider correcting, if not in the post at least in your mind for the future.

It's always bothered me that in general people call them "the Arab population" when discussing Palestine. We need to compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges and state the truth: they are the non-Jewish population

Arab is a linguistic moniker, as is Hebrew and Yiddish.

And to put it mildly the non-Jewish population in Palestine have been discriminated against in the worst way over the last 60+ years, and sadly enough supported and encouraged by the United Staes, Canada and Britain. Imagine if Christians were discriminated against here in the US, Canada or Britain the way they are discriminated against in Palestine. Would we rise up against that? You'd better believe it...

If they were Jewish they wouldn't be in the situation they are in. Palestinians are mostly Muslim and some Christian (there are also Druze and Samaritans). The Jewish Palestinians were easily absorbed after the Zionist invasion.

Let's stop the "Jews vs. Arabs" thing and START saying "Jews vs. Non-Jews" when discussing Palestine. Thank you.

reply to post by backinblack


SO . . . the Aboriginals are sovereign over their land and answer to Australia in no way whatsoever?

by the way, my last post was directed to lemon, I'm fairly new on this site

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


backinblack, if I may, this sounds a lot like it is in my country. the aboriginal nations have their own land and their own council governments and their own police force while being subject to the country's laws