Police frustration

My car was broken into this morning. They stole some fishing lures, bottles of water, sunglasses and my car charger. Everything but the car charger was recovered so I was told to go to the station and see if they had it there. I did and they didn't. However, while there I asked what the punishment is for breaking into my car. The officer got noticeably frustrated and said a hundred dollar fine and case dismissed. He went on to tell me how aggravating it is to arrest these people, do all the paper work, transport them to and from the court, etc all to have them assessed a small fine and have the case dismissed.

A few other officers were standing around and chimed in with similar sentiments. According to the, they feel like it is a waste for them to bust their butts "out there" and then have nothing come of it when they catch someone red-handed.

I am not the biggest fan of cops and this is in no way an excuse for the behavior of the bad apples. However, these guys were all very courteous, professional, and even cracked some jokes about what the thieves stole. They actually made the situation less unpleasant.

I would like your thoughts on this: does the judicial system cause police frustration? Is this frustration evidenced by cases of brutality? Anything else you can think of?

SM-88

My wife is a copper in the UK and it is the same story, the police work hard and get the arrest, cross all the t's and dot all the i's in the mounds of paperwork and then the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) decides that it's not worth pursuing. In some cases they aren't even fined, just released without charge.

its the paperwork issue. causes frustration for smaller "petty" things like this. Alot of times i have noticed cops thinking their time is better served hunting violent, big crime type criminals than really going out, filling out the paperwork and reports associated with the small theft and vandalism type crimes. Interesting and similar point, I was talking to a couple cops and was just shooting hypothetical situations by them when one of a person breaking into your home. If you have a gun should you fire warning shots and to try to scare them or should you just shoot the person came up. Both the cops immediately said, "shoot the person, there is less paperwork for us to do if the guy is DOA than if we have to try to track him down"

reply to post by skoalman88


Don't leave anything in your car or else you become a target.
I understand the frustrations knowing that when we are looking for justice....we get a court of law instead of a court of justice.
Its not perfect but its what we have.

Its like building a wall.
You build it and the next day its gone....why even build the wall in the first place if someone is just going to tear it down....it MUST be frustrating.

Paper work is a pain. You have to fill out an initial report. Then depending on the crime there are a number of attachments. It is actually easier to deal with a dead body than a DUI. If there is no sign of foul play the body is one page. The DUI is six or seven including the evidence paper work.

Beyond the paper work is the pure frustration of dealing with the magistrates and DA. One of the guys I work with took in a couple that had been fighting. They literally stopped their car in the middle of a five lane road. Then they got out to start fighting. They dumped half the contents of the car in the road, broke the plexiglass in a bus stop shelter, and woke up the whole neighborhood. Mace was required to break the two apart and get them in to custody. In the end they were charged with mutual fighting. The DA dropped the charges.

One officer told me about catching a repeat "peeping tom" so many times they actually were on a first name basis. There is also a repeat flasher that the judge keeps putting in the mental ward for 7 - 30 days. He has to be arrested every few months and sent back to jail.

That's the job. If they think it's a pain they should go get a different job.

What do they want? A capture bonus? To earn an hourly wage and government benefits for sleeping in their cars?

Anybody recall the New London, CT scandal that showed cops were intentionally hiring stupid people? Their justification was "the monotony of the job will lead to smart people becoming bored with the work."

Seriously, too many of these badge wearing nuts just want to live some 70's cop TV show full of car chases, shoot-outs and bare-knuckle brawls.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
That's the job. If they think it's a pain they should go get a different job.

What do they want? A capture bonus? To earn an hourly wage and government benefits for sleeping in their cars?

Anybody recall the New London, CT scandal that showed cops were intentionally hiring stupid people? Their justification was "the monotony of the job will lead to smart people becoming bored with the work."

Seriously, too many of these badge wearing nuts just want to live some 70's cop TV show full of car chases, shoot-outs and bare-knuckle brawls.

I don't believe they are complaining of too much paperwork. The complaint as I understand it is two fold:

1) They are doing well over $100 worth of labor when the net outcome is a fine of $100. Huge money black hole. Either fine the convicted person = to the amount of labor they caused or let it go.

2) The repeat offenses by the same 10% of the population causes the same paperwork and fines over and over.

Reply to post by thisguyrighthere

An officers job is to enforce the laws, statutes, and ordinances of their jurisdiction to keep peace and order in the community.

How can this be done if the officer must spend half his shift filling out paperwork for a DUI arrest made near the beginning if his shift?

The amount of paperwork for a simple DUI is absurd, but you can thank lawyers and idiot judges for that.



Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by jjkenobi


That is a failure of the entire system.

Investment in capture and punishment is always out of whack with the crime.

We routinely house offenders at an cost of $30,000+ annually who have not done anywhere near $30,000 in damages.

Having two cops earning $30,000 annually waste an entire day handling some domestic squabble or vandalism incident is definitely a waste as well.

If we're looking at our "justice" system in terms of dollar signs it doesnt make any sense whatsoever and waste is rampant.

Unfortunately our "justice" system is based largely on emotional overreactions and public fear so the waste will simply continue.

You are lucky you got your stuff back. I had some gold, silver, and costume jewelry stolen from a locked case at an inside flea market that was robbed - and it was recovered in a van that was used in the theft but I never got - not one item - back.

I wish they'd stop the drug war and give 100% of their attention to actual crime.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

What do they want? A capture bonus? To earn an hourly wage and government benefits for sleeping in their cars?

Nope. What most cops want is to be able to go after real criminals. If they have to stop and break up a fight that is destroying public property, obstructing traffic, and disturbing the peace they want something to be done to the people. Is it really worth risking your health to stop two people from fighting? Is it worth it when the magistrate or DA refuses to press charges? No it really isn't worth it. If you don't stop it though you can lose your job or be held liable because you saw the action and refused to act.

It gets frustrating dealing with incidents like that for no reason. You risk your health and lose two hours of your shift that could be spent going after real criminals. Then the next week the charges get dropped. It starts to feel like banging your head against a wall.

Think about arresting the same flasher eight times in a year. We can all agree that the guy should probably be put in a state hospital. Instead he gets 21 days in the mental ward of a hospital. Then he is back out there doing it again. Which means some cop has to go to the scene, then locate him, then arrest him, take the perp to the magistrate's office, while the magistrate is processing the paper work he has to begin a report, he has to stop so that he can go present the person and situation to the magistrate, afterwards he goes and finishes his report. The officer has lost two hours or more out of his day for something that nets zero result.

If the judges and magistrates would actually do their part the job would be much less frustrating.

Seriously, too many of these badge wearing nuts just want to live some 70's cop TV show full of car chases, shoot-outs and bare-knuckle brawls.

No cop I know wants to be in a shoot out, a fight, or a car chase. There is too much danger for the officer and the public. What most officers want is to make a clean arrest on somebody that is a threat or burden to the community. Then they want the magistrate to press the proper charges and the DA to prosecute. They want it to be worth their time and the risk. Every night a cop goes out not knowing if he is coming home. If the officer is honest and making the sacrifice the court officials should do their part.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
Nope. What most cops want is to be able to go after real criminals.

Then I guess they shouldnt waste so much time and energy making criminals where there are none to be had?

34 Years of making criminals out of thin air told to cease immediately

Please, spare us the "dont know if we're coming home" dramatics. Nobody knows if theyre coming home. A given day has infinite variables and infinite causes of death lurking around every corner for every human alive.

Police just cracked the top ten dangerous jobs list this year for the first time.
The brave men who shingle our roofs and collect our trash from the side of the road are more likely to die in the line of duty than cops are. Being a mall security guy is statistically more dangerous.

Everybody bitches about their job. Right? Seriously I can't say "everybody" but it conveys an idea that is all too common. I would bet "catching criminals" was in the job description. What would they prefer blood and guts everyday? "Oh, I prefer this type of crime to that one" "Yea, that kind of crime is no fun, boring in fact"

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Then I guess they shouldnt waste so much time and energy making criminals where there are none to be had?

When it comes to NYPD I won't argue with you. I know retired NYPD cops. From the way they put it the FBI watches them as much as they watch the five families. There are some honest cops on the NYPD. Most of them are afraid to poke their head up though. Corruption is a way of life for most of those guys.

NYPD, Chicago PD, and L.A are the anomallies in the police world. The guys I work with day in and day out don't go out looking to make people criminals. They actually believe in the motto, "to protect and to serve." Most of the cops I know in other departments are the same way. They aren't looking to make a criminal out of anybody.

This is ATS though. I'm not going to waste my breath. I know the mantra around here is, "cops are evil corporatist pig slaves. They just want to trample our rights and murder us." It is a bullsh*t position, but it is the ATS position.

Please, spare us the "dont know if we're coming home" dramatics. Nobody knows if theyre coming home. A given day has infinite variables and infinite causes of death lurking around every corner for every human alive.

A cop takes risks the average person never has to even think about. When was the last time you volunteered to run in to a burning building? When was the last time you had to break up a domestic dispute where one person had been convicted of manslaughter before?

The risk level is way different. than the average person's. So spare me the equivicating. A police officer accepts the danger as necessary to protect others. The officer just doesn't want to take unnecessary risk. If the DA and magistrate won't do their job his risk is pointless.

Being a mall security guy is statistically more dangerous.

Really when did it crack the top ten? When was the last time you heard about guys ambushing a mall security guard and shooting his car up? It happened to a Sheriff Deputy in the next county a couple of months ago.

Show me one place that says a mall security job is more dangerous than a LEOs job. The most recent numbers have LEOs at number 9. Security guards aren't in the top 15.

The US has more people in its prisons than any other country on the planet. Is the problem really that enough people are not being tossed into jail for stealing a phone charger? I wonder who pays for those jails, those people that run those jails, and the cost of keeping the prisoners alive in those jails.

I believe it is this lack of interest in petty crime that drives the rates of other crimes, such as murder. Not on the part of police, but on the departments that tell these officers to "just let it go." In return police are frustrated, people are frustrated, and indeed this probably leads to a higher rate of brutality from police.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
Nope. What most cops want is to be able to go after real criminals.

Just two days ago, my elderly and rather crippled mother was doing some grocery shopping. She left the store, got into her car and started looking for her keys, moving grocery bags around, etc. She had not even shut the door or started the ignition when a cop car pulled into the spot next to her. The officer on the passenger side rolled his window down and they just watched my mom for a moment. So, she asked if there was something wrong or something she could help them with. The cop from the driver's side asked where her handicapped tag was since she was in a handicapped spot. She showed him that it was hanging from the rearview mirror where it is supposed to be. The cop then sternly warned her that if she is actually in her car, it is ilegal to have that tag hanging from the mirror and that it was a ticketable offense. She said she just got in the car and had not even gotten her keys out yet. The cop replied that excuses do not pay fines.
Across the street from that mall plaze a bank was robbed and a pedestrian was hit by the getaway car.
Sure the cops could not have been psychic but I have a hard time believing all they wanted to do was find some real criminals when they are cruising plazas to shake down crippled old ladies for anything they could think of.
First the problem was "WHERE IS IT!"
Then the problem was "THERE IT IS, WHY IS IT STILL THERE?"
Please spare me the "they just wish they could do some real good crap." Those cops are long gone.

The cops can only do so much. A much better concept is preventing the possibility of a crime in the first place. It is a reality that communities that have programs...usually buisness funded...that bring together school aged youths with buisness owners, teachers and political leaders in a manner that shows young people that others actually care about them and form a bond between all groups by getting everyone to know one another...that allows for a dramatic drop in crime and vandalism.

Also...crime levels are massively lower in communities that have a majority of it citizens as Gun owners.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I firmly believe that if the punishment for crime in the U.S. were stiffer, there would be a huge decline in crime rates. Let's say your from a lower-class povershed background. It would make more sense for you to rob, shoot, kill someone in the U.S. society and go to prison for 35 years where you may or may not get the death penalty, and eat three meals a day, than it would to continue to starve and fight for your next meal.

"An eye for an eye" is an old montra, but it is fitting. Say the same street that most of the citizens carry guns on is hit by a robber. The robber is shot and killed in self-defense, and the courts settle it. Crime rate in that part of town WILL decrease due to the fact that robbing someone is no longer such a simple task and may result in you getting shot.

Iran is under the gun of political correctness lately due to "stoning" deaths. I say bring stoning to America and see how it affects our murderously intentive population. Metaphorically, of course. Stop giving them free meals on the part of tax money paid by the surviving families income.

so you think, maybe cops are doing the job they think the courts are failing at?
since the criminals have no reason to fear the court, the cops make them afraid of getting arrested?

if they know you arent going to jail for the petty crime, maybe a few tasers to the nuts will set you straight?

thats almost a nice thought, instead of imagining that cops become cops for the power-trip, the truth is that they simply want justice in the world. and when they find out they still dont have any control over that, they get frustrated and go all "bat-man"... but without the billionaire education and training... so they kinda suck at it.


hmm.. well.. thats something new to think about.


im always nice and apologetic towards the cops who have pulled me over.
i notice they always come to my window apprehensive and on guard... and by the end of it we're chatting about some random thing or another... last time it was about super nintendo games.. lol.
and i always thank them when they give me the ticket.

but im insane. so go figure.