From my cold dead hands! - A little Gun History

reply to post by hangedman13


You live in a sad society if people are praying on the old and infirm, our community spirit does not allow that where I live fortunatly. As I said before its a culture thing and I did agree to that, your country compared to mine is ruthless. Stealing from the community where I live is 2 rounds in the kneecaps or worse so people have been conditioned not to steal from the old.

reply to post by michaelmcclen

Stealing from the community where I live is 2 rounds in the kneecaps or worse so people have been conditioned not to steal from the old.

Did I just read that right??? So GUNS are OKAY in some instances, after all?

Too be honest, I can understand why no one would want the Irish to have guns!

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
reply to post by michaelmcclen

 

Stealing from the community where I live is 2 rounds in the kneecaps or worse so people have been conditioned not to steal from the old.

Did I just read that right??? So GUNS are OKAY in some instances, after all?

Too be honest, I can understand why no one would want the Irish to have guns!

You have state executions, we have community punishments. The object is not to kill the person and usually the ambulance service is pre-called to clean up the mess.

Think of it like the executioners sword only a few weild it and use it for appropriate sanctioned punishments. If they dont have a gun they just knock 7 shades out of you or as what happened a few years back you get crucified to a fence using a hammer and nails. You can safely say I can walk the streets at night in any shape where I live and not worry.

www.guardian.co.uk...

P.s thats where I live , Seymourhill and to be honest the wee c~ deserved it

To take a quote

"Jackie McDonald, a member of the UDA's ruling body, the Inner Council, said the attack was the work of locals frustrated over the 'joyriding plague' in their area. 'I don't think the local UDA did this because if they had caught Harry McCartan they would have nailed him to a post on the front of the road for everybody to see"

"For 30 years the paramilitaries have exerted power and influence on their communities, in many cases offering a form of instant and brutal 'justice' against those accused of anti-social behaviour."

That fella lives on my street, nice chap plays golf with the Irish presidents husband, never have to worry about my car or house the little s~'s would be retarted to venture where I live with him about.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Ahhh vigilantism, the next best thing when you can't own a gun.

I'm all for vigilantism, but still prefer the freedom to own a gun.

BTW, this thread is about ensuring people are able to defend themselves again Government TYRANNY, not about gun controls for the sake of reducing person to person crime. Please reread the original post, and look at countries that have given up their rights to bear arms.

Note too, the UK Govt might not have intentions of exterminating any particular group, but they're showing signs of becoming a more controlling and fascist police state...keep your eyes open.

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
reply to post by michaelmcclen

 

Ahhh vigilantism, the next best thing when you can't own a gun.

I'm all for vigilantism, but still prefer the freedom to own a gun.

BTW, this thread is about ensuring people are able to defend themselves again Government TYRANNY, not about gun controls for the sake of reducing person to person crime. Please reread the original post, and look at countries that have given up their rights to bear arms.

Note too, your UK Govt might not have intentions of exterminating any particular group, but they're showing signs of becoming a more controlling and fascist police state...keep your eyes open.

Yes , sorry to go off topic we kind of went off on one rather I did.

I still believe that the percieved threat does not justify every citizen owning a gun, I personally believe they should be banned, but that my opinion and I dont expect people to agree with it after all diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

Guns get such a bad rap due to the culture of ignorance surrounding them. That and the misconceptions the media feed the people. Shooting requires discipline to do it right Governments don't like their people having guns as a rule because that is part of the control required to stay in power. Guns = power. The industrial revolution was fueled in large by the need for guns to be made quick and reliable. Some of the first manufacturing was of fire arms. The British and French traded with the Indians [Native Americans] for furs, land and whatever else they wanted to acquire.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Uhhhhh your country crucifies people and you don't call them ruthless as you did the USA? That's torture....I'd rather be shot any day than crucified.



USA has a certain hood culture that Europeans don't seem to be able to identify with? That is where most of our gun deaths come from. The innercity.... and it usually isn't "innocent" people getting killed either.. its usually the people on the corner selling crack.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


No worries, I could see where you are coming from and your point though a bit off-topic, has merits. Unfortunately it's not always each other that we protection from. IMHO an ARMED free citizenry is NEEDED to keep those in power, from abusing the rights of individuals.

Unfortunately they still abuse people's rights, thru stealth...thousands of law changes (think Patriot Act). The militarization of the police alone should be viewed with great concern. Just research how many INNOCENT people have been shot to death by SWAT, after they raided the WRONG address!

First great thread.

Now to the argument at hand:

All these criminal and gun statistics are actually quite moot when it comes to American's right to bare arms.

Our right to bare arms exists for one reason only, to protect us from the biggest criminal group of all, the government.

The right to bare arms is to ensure that we are always citizens and never subjects. It is to ensure that we always possess a last line of defense versus tyranny.

Perhaps many of people of the world have been fed the wrong reasoning behind gun ownership to understand the reason we have them. Or perhaps they are too used to being subjects and not free men.

We have problems here as everywhere else, but unlike the rest of the world, if peaceful change fails, we have the final solution.

Live free or die!

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


Those historical 'facts' are just spun in a way to indicate that gun control is bad because tyrranical governments will take over immediately afterwards!

Germany implemented gun control in 1928, five years before Hitler came to power. The Nazi's simply extended the law. A vast majority of those killed in the Holocaust were from outside Germany, meaning any law passed in Germany had little to no effect on the ability to stop or hinder the efforts of the Nazi's.

Stalin implemented gun control in 1929, 10 years after the revolution and just after Germany did so. Could this have stopped Stalin? Maybe..doubtful though.

Finally, Switzerland. The Swiss have no standing military, they force every citizen to train and serve their militia around the age of 20. Imagine if Obama said tomorrow that everyone would have to join the military, yeah that wouldn't go over well. They only allow ownership of three weapons.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


Great post. When I was younger I used to be against gun ownership (im from the uk btw) I really believed that they were bad things despite loving them at the same time. I love that first quote btw 'God made man, Samuel Colt madethem equal'

One thing the antigun people always neglect is that it is usually the illegal gun that is used in crimes. The legal gun owner has no desire to use their gun for crime. We need to have the law enforcement enthusiasts (cops) start getting the illegal gun trade under control. How come nobody ever sees this? Is everybody really this blind? When was the last time that you heard of the cops busting an illegal gun dealer? Jeez there is a place near where I live where guys sell them out of the trunk of their cars and the cops do nothing.

reply to post by links234


To add to that the Jews in Germany were not historically armed regardless of that countries laws due to their cultural beliefs and lifestyle.

I don't like the whole "tyrants agree: gun control works!" thing. It's disingenuous and requires both selective fact omission from the teller and willful ignorance on the part of the listener to make its point.

A point which I might add is moot. To believe that millions died because of lack of personal firearms is ridiculous. If millions stood with sticks and stones they could have changed things enough for history to have made note.

Lack of guns didnt kill these people. Lack of courage did. Fifty people calmly standing at the edge of a pit holding their hats while two men mow them down. As though those at the pits edge did not want to live in the first place.

I'm rabidly pro-gun and want every man woman and child proficient in the use of fireams and oppose any and all measure which regulate, limit or ban the possession and use of firearms by anyone. But I also can't stand these cutesy attempts to position a hollow bumper sticker or T-shirt slogan as some substantial or factual platform for debate. Good on you for calling it out.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


www.abovetopsecret.com...

In your thread here, wouldnt it have been rather difficult to have reached equilibrium without firearms?

just sayin.

The UDA/IRA became police forces in them selves but where diffrent to the police because they volunteered to patrol their estate and to look after their estate. This was a time where there was alot of fighting and people believed in the IRA/UDA to protect them and their family from the opposing side gaining alot of trust and respect in estates, they where people you dident mess with and their words could cast a great shaddow over you or your family.

Quite simply they dident mess around, they dident stand for anti social behaviour, they dident stand for crimes against the people in their estates and they dident stand for oppression in any form. With this bought alot problems for government forces in any form, even to day they still linger on after the war was fought.

*The local govermernt cannot enforce alot of laws because they would start riots.

*This country has been brought up to start riots when they feel oppressed

*This country has been brought up not to trust the police

*This country has been brought up in the value that you can do what you want and give the finger to the authorities or that its OK to run at the sign of police.

*This is a country that would not see its self oppressed by anyone or anything and would rather die than to live in an oppresssed state.

*This counrty has the NHS, benefits for the sick and social housing for the poor.

*This counrty has a government that represents its people and even their words can spark outrage and riots we live in a counrty thats leaders are held to account for everything and the best of it is they HAVE to work for the people because our country is so small, word of mouth can sink a leader.

Because all these factors have trickled down over time and into future generations we have adopted the old laws of the land but with no more riots between sides or the the police. We still however live in a country where the IRA/UDA still carry wight and the police still stay out of estates because no one is a tout.

We still would knock out a traffic warden and think nothing of it because he's being a di*k and working for the man. The banks cant touch us here because we do not have bailifs as we are to violent to them as they are working for the "man".

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Irrelevant stats when you look at the size of the population.

Really? Ireland? You fit five Irelands into Texas...

Check out the size of the populations, compare with gun ownership, and you'll find that the US stat really is not that high. Comparatively speaking.

The head of the Brady Foundation recently stepped down because he was a failure. States, with the exception of Illinios have all been expanding gun rights across the board, though there is still more to be done.

I wish the next head of the Brady Foundation all the success that his predecessor had.

reply to post by links234

You make a sound arguement links234, BUT it's not as simplistic as you suggest.

Removing gun ownership rights is only ONE step in the process. It's like when the Patriot Act was introduced, was that the end of it? NO, it's had hundreds, if not thousands of additions and modifications, that have not necessarily been for the betterment of US citizens. Basically anyone that doesn't agree with the Govt, is simply branded a TERRORIST! Hell the Dem's call the Tea Party 'dangerous terrorist' at any opportunity.

The gun controls mentioned in my OP, are often just the thin edge of the wedge. Just look at all the current US examples of 'citizens' being encourages to SPY on their neighbors, report anything and everything, just as happened in Nazi Germany. They also develop a society where it's no longer safe to speak your mind, for fear of being reported. You know that the US Govt can just have you locked up and spirited out of the country, with no formal charges being laid, and without you been given access to an attorney?

Sounds like more like IRAN or NORTH KOREA!

If it's currently this bad in a country that's meant to be the land of the FREE, where most people still have the right to gun ownership, would you really want to give up that right, and give any political party that already tramples on your rights, the POWER to rule unchecked?

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


All you're suggesting though is that we should look out for when "they" take our guns. It's interesting considering just the other day the head of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, suggested that the Obama administration not making a move on gun rights is a conspiracy and that Obama plans on taking them away in his second term.

I can appreciate your concern for our freedoms but we're not being stolen away into the night because we disagree with one thing or the other.

I hate to be the bear of bad news but no one in America has the right to own a gun.......wait....wait... according to the US government and the laws they have set up. I personally am totally for guns and stand by the ownership of guns. For the people who think you have rights under any constitution need to think twice and do a Google search. Also like stated already people who want some kind of gun control don't realize criminals don't go into a gun shop to buy guns. They buy them out of trunks and rob people that have guns. They also pay people who are law abiding citizens with good records to buy their guns for them. There will always be criminals with guns so why wouldn't you want guns to at least have a fighting chance.

First conspiracy theory I ever researched was the FEMA death camps and how the plan was hatched to take control using martial law. Under martial law they can take your guns right out of your hands using military force. They can also imprison citizens for not obeying whatever they decide they want the new laws and agenda to be.

Case in point Hurricane Katrina they basically imprisoned people and there are also videos of police throwing a old women down because she wouldn't give up her gun .. Sad part is she was standing in her house. Obama does want to take away guns that's why ever time I go to a gun store or build a ar-15 they sell parts and call it the Obama special.. Get parts and extra mags lol I love that. Stay strong and don't let anyone take your guns.

I appreciate my right to own a gun(s) for hunting, self-defense or as a collectible. I would be honestly quite upset if that all changed.

reply to post by TopElite


I have had my eyes open for over 30 years and the patriot act has given the government and international money changers more power to enact martial law than they ever had by enacting FEMA. Right now with the awakening of people all over the world that have taken to the streets and the redeployment of the troops in Iran I am feeling uneasy... Hopefully the guys coming home aren't as brainwashed as my boot camp training platoon was when asked if we had to be sent to L.A. if riots were to occur would we shoot to kill civilians if ordered to do so? We all answered yes.. We'd returned from 2 weeks of rifle training at Camp Pendleton that day and were told we may have to be sent there because Dr Martin Luther King had been shot and killed in Memphis and riots were expected in Watts... I am still amazed at how thoroughly conditioned we all had become in 6 weeks...I am afraid that things and times are about right for us to find out who will or won't lock, load, and fire first...