Cheap effective last minute weapons for close quarter self defence?

Originally posted by Redwing48
reply to post by nenothtu

 

"To each his own" as they say.

I simply hate to hear people run down a truly a great gun. I assume you must be in law enforcement or some type of security work, so it might interest you to know they are rather highly rated within your community.

Police

The Model 995 was easy to keep on target and fun to shoot, and as a former cop with over 20 years in the field, I wouldn't hesitate to stick one of these in my trunk and put it to work. At this price, even if you simply get your agency to approve them, you can buy one yourself out of your beer and pizza money.

As a home defense gun, this carbine just can't be beat. Virtually no recoil, low muzzle report, low (virtually non-existent) muzzle flash, and accuracy that is right at the top make it easy to transition to and great for small-statured shooters.

edit on 1-10-2011 by Redwing48 because: correct spelling

I'm a Security Contractor.

Those reviews are fine, and those folks can do as they wish as well - as you say, to each his own. I especially depart from the opinion of the carbine as an acceptable home defense weapon. If I want a pistol caliber weapon, I'll employ a pistol, since they're handier than a bulky carbine, and if I want a rifle type of weapon, I'll employ one that's full-power. If I'm going to carry the extra steel, there ought to be a good reason for that. Of course, that's just my own opinion, and as I said before, I'll bet those carbines make for some interesting conversation at the range, but to my mind they're a waste of perfectly good steel when it comes to serious use.

All in all, for home defense I prefer a shotgun over either a rifle or a pistol, since it has a better penetration vs. power trade off. Plenty of power, but less penetration through walls to endanger the folks I'm supposed to be protecting in that situation. That doesn't mean you can get careless with one - they WILL still penetrate - it's just less likely to keep on going. I blew a fist-sized hole completely through a living room door with one one time, so you still have to be careful and not John-Wayneish.

reply to post by nenothtu


Its most likely already been said, but for cheap, efficient, and also multi purpose close quarter defense, I've gotta go with the crowbar.

reply to post by blood0fheroes


Hard to break a firing pin in one, too... or just plain hard to break, for that matter!

In all honesty, there are innumerable things just sitting there in nearly every house that can be "weaponized", from a can of oven cleaner, to bleach (better thrown from a drinking glass that a gallon jug, but who the hell drinks the stuff?) to electrical cords, flower pots, hammers, ink pens (yes, ink pens - nothing like an emergency tracheotomy to convince a miscreant of their evil ways, and no one ever thinks you'd really do that! Element of surprise, y'know), to... well, damn near anything. My old lady once beat the hell out of a guy with a broom handle that was previously attached to a nearby broom. Problem is, some of those things take a degree, either lesser or smaller, of specialized training.

Not a crowbar, though, no special training required - just aim and whack, or poke real hard..

... and it's damn hard to tear one up!

Originally posted by nenothtu
...ink pens (yes, ink pens)...

As long as they're a decent solid/metallic bodied Parker/Fountain pen type deal.
Cheap-ass plastic biros tend to shatter and leave you tweezering shards of broken plastic out of your hand...

*experience speaking*


Completely agree on the 'anything really'...again, be it the wifes shoe, your kids trainset or the cat...swing away Merril, swing away...



...also a great *weapon* to have is a good dose of LUCK.

At the end of the day the greater majority of surprise immediate threat situations are going to come down to simple blind luck. You can train out the ass, have an arsenal that Rambo would be envious of, but if its one of those days when Lady Luck is not smiling in your favour then its highly likely going to go bad for you...

In reference to luck:

A few years ago I was outside on the back porch of my house having a ciggie one night...and around the corner of my house comes this guy.

He likely wasn't intending to do me or my family any mischief...just casing out our house, wandering around the backyard looking for something to steal.

He was likely just as surprised as I was!


Had no weapon on me, all I was in was my dressing gown and a pair of slip-on scuffs...so...flicked the ciggie at him for distraction...missed by a mile...what next? Ahh, my scuffs...shuffled my right foot quickly back to loosen that scuff and then kicked/flicked it at him.


It was the PERFECT shot! Flew straight and true...*smack* hard as right in the nose!


Poor guy took off clutching his nose, leapt/stumbled/fell over the back fence as he bolted away...crack up, I simply couldn't chase after him as I was laughing so hard...

Steel toe boots, never see it coming

Originally posted by alien

...also a great *weapon* to have is a good dose of LUCK.

At the end of the day the greater majority of surprise immediate threat situations are going to come down to simple blind luck. You can train out the ass, have an arsenal that Rambo would be envious of, but if its one of those days when Lady Luck is not smiling in your favour then its highly likely going to go bad for you...

I agree. many times it's the luck of the draw, and who gets the drop on whom. It pays off to stack luck in your favor. Simple awareness is an oft overlooked weapon. Just knowing - and letting them know that you know there there - will often send predators to seek easier pasturage.

I stack luck in my favor with big, aware, German Shepherds in the house. It has paid off at least once. They know instantly when a door is opened, and ain't shy about being informative. One dark night I was sitting at home, minding my own business surfing ATS, no one there but myself and my son. House was mostly dark, and the little lady was gone in the car, so there was no car in the driveway.

Someone thought that would be an ideal time to check things out, since it looked like no one was home. They jimmied the lock on the back door, and walked right in like they owned the place. Dogs caught 'em in the hallway, and kept 'em busy enough that I had time to go get my shotgun and limber it up.

Surprise, awareness, and four-legged friends. The shotgun was just icing on the cake, almost an afterthought.

Originally posted by Dylan201
Whats an easy yet effective weapon you could use for self defence in close quarters, like to defend your home for example..

i was thinking of lye, you can put it in a bottle and just send it flying at the intruders face and burn them.

mossberg shotgun, pistol grip.
Very effective.

Originally posted by Redwing48
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I own several Hi-Point C9 pistols as well as the 995 Carbines, and they're not Jam-0-matics. Obviously you've never owned or fired one, or you'd know that. Inexpensive doesn't always mean cheap and unreliable.

I can shoot just as well with my C9 as anybody and for about a third of the costs.. If my gun malfunctions Hi-Point will fix it or replace it FREE of charge. Can you say the same for your Glock, Beretta, Sig Sauer, Kimber, ad nauseum? Most of these companies charge for repairs and will rarely replace a gun with no questions asked.

edit on 30-9-2011 by Redwing48 because: (no reason given)

I owned a high point nine once.

lord.

alright, to be serious, its great for the money, but once you get the money..
get a sig.

reply to post by dragonseeker
I'm happy with my Hi-Points, and hate to waste money on unnecessary items. Food and water top my list, with firearms and ammunition running a close second.

I admit my C9's are a bit muzzle heavy and not ideal for concealed carry, but they shoot every time I pull the trigger, they're accurate, and unlike so many high dollar pistols with extremely close tolerances, I don't have to clean them religiously to assure they will fire the next time I use them. I like to think of them as the SKS of the American handgun market.

I don't sell them, so if you have 400-500 dollars to spare, by all means get a Glock, Sig, Beretta, etc.

Id love a pair of steel toe capped shoes/boots/trainers with a razor blade secured into the toe end!! Kick someone in the shin bone.... BOOM.... 1 nil

reply to post by nenothtu


No mon,your crowbar doesnt come with a force field that stops my egg sized rocks from crushing your bones,and its to heavy to run away with ,so I say after the first rock strike you realisze the trauma you just recieved and drop the crowbar and run like the wind.

Pistor grip high capacity auto-loading shotgun,armed with alternatin ordinance ,slug-shot-pyro-slug-shot-pyro.I will put a large hole through a wall on my first shot on my second I will make it bigger and on my third i will torch it with an explosive or incendiary round--how long to fire three shots from a semi auto again?

Originally posted by one4all
No mon,your crowbar doesnt come with a force field that stops my egg sized rocks from crushing your bones,and its to heavy to run away with ,so I say after the first rock strike you realisze the trauma you just recieved and drop the crowbar and run like the wind.

Here's the potential problem: After you have thrown away all of your rocks, and are empty-handed, I will still have my crowbar. That's always the problem with throwing things - eventually, you run out of things to throw. If you think I'd stand still to give you a pretty target for the rocks, you might want to reconsider that scenario...

Also, I have been trained to assault INTO an ambush, not away from it. Just another thing to consider in your planning phases.

Pistor grip high capacity auto-loading shotgun,armed with alternatin ordinance ,slug-shot-pyro-slug-shot-pyro.I will put a large hole through a wall on my first shot on my second I will make it bigger and on my third i will torch it with an explosive or incendiary round--

Everyone has their own preferences. I prefer a pump shotgun over an autoloader. Auto loaders sometimes have feed problems, especially with variable-power rounds in succession as you mention here. Also, if you plan it out far enough ahead to know which rounds to fire in which succession, a STRONG case can be made for pre-meditation, as in "murder", as opposed to self-defense.

I don't know anywhere in the US where incendiary shotgun rounds are legal for civilians possession, but you may not be in the US.

My own shotgun is a Mossberg M590A1, the military model. It has a pistol grip stock, but with a full, solid buttstock attached. It also has a bayonet lug, since it only holds 9 rounds, and there might be 10 "bad guys" too close on me to allow for reload. Pistol grips alone look cool, and are very photogenic for movies, but make a piss-poor shooting platform for serious business.

how long to fire three shots from a semi auto again?

1.5 seconds if you take the time to line up the sights rather than using point-shoot techniques. How long does it take you to aim a rock?

Originally posted by nenothtu

I don't know anywhere in the US where incendiary shotgun rounds are legal for civilians possession, but you may not be in the US.

www.firequest.com...

You didn't hear it from me Make sure you check your local and state laws, but there are only a few states they don't ship to

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Originally posted by nenothtu

I don't know anywhere in the US where incendiary shotgun rounds are legal for civilians possession, but you may not be in the US.

www.firequest.com...

You didn't hear it from me

Make sure you check your local and state laws, but there are only a few states they don't ship to

edit on 3-10-2011 by AngryAlien because: (no reason given)

heh. talk about lighting someone up 0.o
2nd line.

reply to post by nenothtu


Weapon-wise my preference has always been for a pump-action as well.

While theres a wee collection of other far more interesting armaments available in the firearms cabinets at home...I'd be - if it ever came to having to go for some firepower - reaching first and foremost for my ol' trusty Mossberg 590.


They are just so incredibly basic to use, natural to hold, instinctual to point, just keep slugging away all day every day...never once had a failure with them...

...and really, while I'd personally NEVER wish to have to EVER be in a position to have to even present it on someone, let alone potentially have to take another persons life...there is just something about that sight and sound of a pump getting shucked...that *shhhiik shhhhiiik* sound is something no matter how big bad and ugly you may be WILL make your butt pucker so hard it'll suck half your jeans up your bum...

Anyone who is then still keen to have a go at you after hearing that sound and/or seeing that wide-open barrel pointed at them is just plain crazy...but crazy still doesn't make you impervious to 12-gauge cartridges...


To be honest I'd much rather prefer to scare someone away if possible rather than 'blow them away'...

reply to post by alien


My friends call my Mossberg my "reloadable claymore mine"

There is most definitely a psychological factor to the sound of racking a round into the chamber that cuts through the gloom and gets the point across. I once had occasion to test that out on a drunk who was getting all manner of rowdy. The sound even cut through the alcohol haze and got my point across. I didn't want to hurt him - the guy was, after all, drunk. Might not have acted that way sober, That "chack-chack" sound sent him on his merry way, quietly, no harm done.

He'd been following my missus around the neighborhood for about 3 days or so, then started coming up to the house. I went out and told him to hit the road, and he took exception to that, started strutting up and down the street shouting stuff like "I'm gonna KILL, you, buddy boy." "You're a goner" etc. And keeping his hands in his coat pockets.

Now, that reaction might not have been entirely his fault - I seem to have that kind of effect on people some times.

I slipped out the back door with the Mossberg and took up a position in the edge of some woods. On his next pass, just as soon as he got the words "I'm gonna KILL you!" out of his mouth, I stood up and racked the slide and said "You sure about that? I don't believe I heard you correctly." Never did point it at him. He'd been watching the front door for me to come out, didn't expect me off to the side in the woods, already out. He just started mumbling and went away. Problem solved. My schedule is erratic, and I thought it a good idea for him not to come around when I wasn't there. I figured this would give him extra incentive to not come around any more at all.

It spooked my missus so bad, though, that she called the cops, when none were really needed. They arrived 22 minutes later, and found him a bit further down the road. Unfortunately, he got rowdy with them too, and couldn't figure out what the little red dot was for, and got tazed. Wouldn't take his hands out of his pocket on command, and the police really like to see those hands when they ask for them.

It turned out that he was protecting an open 40oz in that pocket. It got spilled. Bummer. You just never know what's in those pockets, and when a rowdy is making threats and won't show his hands, well, cops gotta go home each day, too.

reply to post by nenothtu

I don't know anywhere in the US where incendiary shotgun rounds are legal for civilians possession, but you may not be in the US.

Nevada has no ordinance against incendiary ammunition of any type. I own the famed "dragons breath" shot shells as well as incendiary 5.56mm rounds for my AR15s.

God I love my beautiful Libertarian state.

Incendiary rounds(especially DB 12ga shells) aren't very practical for close quarter home defense, however. You may torch the guy, but you might also burn your own house down in the process.

Technically anything can be used as a weapon. I once witnessed a demonstration using the stick of a lollipop. It was certainly interesting.

I do not recommend gasoline, flamethrower type of silliness. The reason being, if your opponent/assailant is in your home, do you really want to create a situation where you literally set your home on fire trying to protect yourself? Fire is unpredictable, you can very easily make your situation much worse.

Wasp spray works much like mace would. It is a very good suggestion. However you can literally use anything as a weapon and your choice of weapon should be influenced by your circumstances. As an example, there is an old saying, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight". Knives will do very little for you if your opponent has a gun, but Wasp spray that can spray a stream 30 feet away can be useful. If your opponent has a knife, you can use a broom stick to keep them at a distance and beat them or disarm them.

Around my home I have no shortage of very innocent things that make for great weapons. For instance I have a small tree near my front door tied very loosely to a wooden stake. Alongside that stake, is a fold out knife. You would never see it if I did not point it out to you. Inside my home is of course a firearm, I have swords on the wall in a display. I have dumbbells from my weight lifting equipment, brooms, I have an old mop that I can remove the mop head from the stick. I do have a couple cans of Wasp Spray located in strategic parts of my home. I have tools in another area of the home. I can even pick up my lightweight computer monitor and throw it at your head.... trust me, you'd move if it was coming at you and that may be all the distraction I need. Baseball bats, baseballs, you name it. Just look around your home, I am sure you can find many things that you can use as a potential weapon. My only advice is try to keep these things accessible should you ever need to use them to defend yourself. All the things I listed are located in various areas of my home. There is something different in every room.

Take a soccer-sock. Put a skateboard wheel in it. Swing.