"The towers couldn't have fallen that way..."

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

So now I'm a paid disinfo shill or something, eh?

This is how one can tell when your counterpart has zero defense of his position.

Fail

Can you please have the government send to me my check? I haven't received a red cent yet...

You are right, when people resort to claim "you must be disinformation agents" shows how weak their argument really is...

The same happens when they start insulting, or try to belittle those of us who think differently than they and more clearly than them...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by playswithmachines

We're still on the same page, dude.
Zero resistance means freefall means impossible unless certain floors are pulverized in advance.
Did you know all security cameras were switched off for maintainance 2 weeks before the crash?

Let's drop on top of your head a car and see how much resistance you can provide...

BTW, first PROVE that "security cameras were switched off", second PROVE that ANYONE could plant tons of explosives in a building, and then when over 3,000 people return to the buildings to work NO ONE noticed anything suspicious...

are you really assuming that no one noticed something suspicious? i'm not sure exactly what happened to the buildings, but even with my research i've found people taking about one of the floors that wasn't being used having a lot of noise coming from it and that was the janitor making that claim.....then there were people that had mentioned evacuation drills going on in the weeks before the attack.....then there were people talking about workmen walking around through the towers.....one of the guys, steve forbes, i believe, mentioned that every morning when he would come into his office they had to clean construction type dust off of the desks and window sills in his office......you people that don't do any research kill me......

Originally posted by Praetorius

 

I'll gladly take evidence to the contrary. If you have some or links to it, I'll gladly take it for review.

Well I've provided a link - with maths - that debunks the whole "tipping" argument.

Name a specific issue and I can supply anything you want.

I haven't seen anything but conflicting opinions - no facts or evidence, and there are mounds of it on each side.

Ahhh, there's the rub now, isn't it?

How do truthers decide which facts and evidence are correct? How do You? I?

So, if you want to help out, do so. Otherwise if you want to antagonize or clarify that you are only providing your thoughts as well, either do so or move on.

I believe I'm helping immensely by demonstrating to truthers the fallacies and errors in their beliefs.

And BTW, I'll do as I please bruddah, as long as I'm within the rules.

Originally posted by patternfinder
you people that don't do any research kill me

You people that can't do the maths, nor even provide them from someone else really amuse me.

Especially when you enter a thread asking for "Why...."

fail

Originally posted by patternfinder
...
then there were people that had mentioned evacuation drills going on in the weeks before the attack.....then there were people talking about workmen walking around through the towers.....one of the guys, steve forbes, i believe, mentioned that every morning when he would come into his office they had to clean construction type dust off of the desks and window sills in his office......you people that don't do any research kill me......

edit on 27-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

"Noises" doesn't prove "explosives were planted"... If there were explosives planted, it's impossible for over 3,000 people to have gone into the buildings, and into their offices and didn't notice anything suspicious, such as patches of the walls still drying out, and the strong smell from the cement and the materials that were used to hide the tons, upon tons of explosives which you people claim were suddenly hidden in the towers and not one soul of over 3,000 noticed...

BTW, I have worked with several companies and THEY ALL HAVE EVACUATION DRILLS... IT doesn't mean "someday down the road the government is going to come and bring down those buildings...

And some people saw some construction workmen walking around?...OMG...that's it... that's the proof!!!....

People who have no common sense at all and make up BS stories kill me...

Hi trickoftheshade, thanks for the invite, and in my opinion it`s true they could`nt have fallen that way.
I realise that the structural steel content of the towers has been poured over and p*ssed on many times.
The `report` states that heat caused the floor pans connections to shift and bow away from the immensely thick and ridgedly interlocked side wall panels, which led to the shear weight causing a pancake collapse.
So even if there was no central collumn supporting structure ( there obviously was, but lets say it suddenly turned into I dunno, cooked spaghetti or string ) why on earth with any real laws of physics active that day would those outer panels have fallen they way they did ? Anyone with any engineering instinct will know that a tube, rectangular or cylindrical, is an extremely powerful shape and can withstand incredible forces applied vertically onto it.
How then did the `pile` end up so small, containing 110 stories of this virtually indestructable steel.
And Who ate all the pancakes ?

What is even more unreal to me is this notion of intense heat travelling thru the steel and almost melting it.
This frame was a Massive heat sink that would have sucked away most of the heat transfer potential, that steel was seriously thick, it takes a foundry/steel mill incredibly high temps to form and reform those profiles. Even if the central weight above could not be supported, the guts of the building might drop but the outer frame would not fragment into powder.
To say that the exact same fate occured to 2 seperate buildings ( hang on... 3 buildings ) within hours of each other, really stinks mate, I dont buy it.

reply to post by patternfinder


Id just give it up. Its like arguing with a child, they are to blind to see any other points but their own, and they wont go out unless they are kicking and screaming. Reality is going to hit him hard some day, probably when he realizes that the government hides stuff from him.
Here he cries and moans that we need to show him proof. All the while we have fed him first hand accounts describing explosions and the such, yet he is to ignorant to accept any of it. Funny part is, not once has he backed his theory with proof.
Some people are just natural idiots.

reply to post by CannotGoHome


What the HELL is "engineering instinct"?...

The things people make up to support their fantasies amaze me...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by patternfinder
...
then there were people that had mentioned evacuation drills going on in the weeks before the attack.....then there were people talking about workmen walking around through the towers.....one of the guys, steve forbes, i believe, mentioned that every morning when he would come into his office they had to clean construction type dust off of the desks and window sills in his office......you people that don't do any research kill me......

edit on 27-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

"Noises" doesn't prove "explosives were planted"... If there were explosives planted, it's impossible for over 3,000 people to have gone into the buildings, and into their offices and didn't notice anything suspicious, such as patches of the walls still drying out, and the strong smell from the cement and the materials that were used to hide the tons, upon tons of explosives which you people claim were suddenly hidden in the towers and not one soul of over 3,000 noticed...

BTW, I have worked with several companies and THEY ALL HAVE EVACUATION DRILLS... IT doesn't mean "someday down the road the government is going to come and bring down those buildings...

And some people saw some construction workmen walking around?...OMG...that's it... that's the proof!!!....

People who have no common sense at all and make up BS stories kill me...

edit on 27-9-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

someone wanna tell him?
2nd line.

Originally posted by ka119


Id just give it up. Its like arguing with a child, they are to blind to see any other points but their own, and they wont go out unless they are kicking and screaming. Reality is going to hit him hard some day, probably when he realizes that the government hides stuff from him.

Yep, it is like arguing with children with no common sense at all and who think that by claiming "anyone who knows basic physics", despite the fact that most such people don't even hold a college degree apart from "liberal Arts", they think they have proven their point....

Originally posted by ka119
Some people are just natural idiots.

Wow...yeah...that's the proof you need right there...

Look at a mirror, and you will find a "natural idiot"...

Originally posted by dragonseeker
...
someone wanna tell him?

2nd line.

How about you try to tell me?...

Second line and...
Third line...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ka119


Id just give it up. Its like arguing with a child, they are to blind to see any other points but their own, and they wont go out unless they are kicking and screaming. Reality is going to hit him hard some day, probably when he realizes that the government hides stuff from him.

Yep, it is like arguing with children with no common sense at all and who think that by claiming "anyone know knows basic physics", despite the fact that most such people don't even hold a college degree apart from "liberal Arts", they think they have proven their point....

Originally posted by ka119
Some people are just natural idiots.

Wow...yeah...that's the proof you need right there...

Look at a mirror, and you will find a "natural idiot"...

Did you seriously just try and get back at me using my exact same points? Wow. Think for yourself there pal.

Would you care to post some proof backing what you believe?
All this bitching and moaning is tiring me out! Time to look at some cold hard 'facts' the government fed the sheeple.

Have at it champ.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Because there were two gaping holes in the sides of those buildings. They should have toppled sideways because it was top heavy, not fall straight down two freaking times.

It doesn't matter how simple anyone makes it for you because your mind is made up. You've been given a simple explanation of the problem with the way the towers fell and your only comeback is because planes hit it. That's the only simple answer you want and will accept. You sit here and ask for a simple explanation when there is no such thing whether you believe the OS or not.

Much work has been done, with maths, yes.

www.journalof911studies.com...

There are also a lot of experts on record

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by patternfinder
...
then there were people that had mentioned evacuation drills going on in the weeks before the attack.....then there were people talking about workmen walking around through the towers.....one of the guys, steve forbes, i believe, mentioned that every morning when he would come into his office they had to clean construction type dust off of the desks and window sills in his office......you people that don't do any research kill me......

edit on 27-9-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

"Noises" doesn't prove "explosives were planted"... If there were explosives planted, it's impossible for over 3,000 people to have gone into the buildings, and into their offices and didn't notice anything suspicious, such as patches of the walls still drying out, and the strong smell from the cement and the materials that were used to hide the tons, upon tons of explosives which you people claim were suddenly hidden in the towers and not one soul of over 3,000 noticed...

BTW, I have worked with several companies and THEY ALL HAVE EVACUATION DRILLS... IT doesn't mean "someday down the road the government is going to come and bring down those buildings...

And some people saw some construction workmen walking around?...OMG...that's it... that's the proof!!!....

People who have no common sense at all and make up BS stories kill me...

edit on 27-9-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

no, that isn't the proof, but you said that no one noticed something suspicious, i was correcting you because there are people who noticed things that were suspicious to them.....as far as fresh spackling on the walls, they might not have needed to put anything in the office walls.......someone would have had access to the elevators via the floor that was supposedly being used for nothing.....you're attacks on me and my opinions will not send me gravitating to your side.....i haven't attacked you at all, but, if you want to devalue my opinions by over reacting to my opinions in a patronizing way, then by all means knock yourself out......

reply to post by infiniteobserver


Now theres some reality for you people, remember long ago playing Jenga?

If you removed the wrong block, it all went toppling over to the side. Let alone if you smack the Jenga tower on the side. Or did it all fall directly into itself... I seem to have lost my common sense.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by Praetorius

 

I'll gladly take evidence to the contrary. If you have some or links to it, I'll gladly take it for review.

Well I've provided a link - with maths - that debunks the whole "tipping" argument.

Name a specific issue and I can supply anything you want.

I haven't seen anything but conflicting opinions - no facts or evidence, and there are mounds of it on each side.

Ahhh, there's the rub now, isn't it?

How do truthers decide which facts and evidence are correct? How do You? I?

So, if you want to help out, do so. Otherwise if you want to antagonize or clarify that you are only providing your thoughts as well, either do so or move on.

I believe I'm helping immensely by demonstrating to truthers the fallacies and errors in their beliefs.

And BTW, I'll do as I please bruddah, as long as I'm within the rules.

Thanks for the measured response, Joey. As far as the link to the tipping argument, are you referring to the Bazant & Zhou link I found in one of your posts? If so, I'll check it out.

As far as information you're willing to provide, is that limited only to the collapse issues, or other questions I might have on general 9/11 issues? As far as how to decide which & what's correct, indeed that's the rub, and I get lost in everything I find on both side but am left with questions to help find the way.

And as long as you're trying to help, well and good. Fly-by responses that don't directly add anything or refer to previously-provided information don't do much for me as I tend not to find a home in very long threads.

On a side note, as seems 9/11 'debunking' is pretty much your only interest on ATS. Nothing else here catches your fancy?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

There are also a lot of experts on record....

Really, where? All I see is some reference to some shady group called architects and engineers for something or other? Where all the experts? ASCE? AIA? SEI?

Stop it with these threads already. Do a search crying out loud. They've been discussed a millions already

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Instinct is what you feel is right . comment was intended for those who dont posses much engineering experience, but should still grasp the intent of my post.
Me ? I have been working steel since 1978 and have used extreme heat to get the job done, I do know how metal reacts with heat and what it takes to manipulate it. do you .?? .. huh ?.... troll ... care to comment on content rather than try ridicule a phrase ?