The real John Titor issue

I have become, like many of you, very interested in the John Titor issue. I have visited the websites, made my own conclusions, and like many of you again, have decided to post some of my own thoughts on the web. For those of you that are not familar with the topic, simply do a google search for John Titor, grab a hot coffee, and read away. For those of you familar with the topic, one very common argument has risen. The fact that none of John Titor's "predictions" have come true. This is a fact, but only remains so because we are only now entering into the time in which Titor said things would begin to change. One of you brought up the point of no signs of civil unrest. My remarks are as follows:

There's no sign of civil unrest? Imagine for a minute that GW cheats his way back into office. I guarantee that the American people, not republicans nor democrats, will not stand for another selection in place of an election. As far as the civil unrest goes... I suppose you haven't heard of the Patriot Act? Look it up. I'll quote the summary as stated in HR 3162 RDS. "To deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled." Basically, it breaks down to this... how much freedom are you willing to give up to feel safe. This means that they can enter anyones home, anywhere, anytime. Still feel safe?

If that isn't enough... I believe Titor said something about reading the Constitution. Has anyone? If not, let me enlighten you with an interesting fact. The United States is not supposed to have an active duty military according to the Constitution. The writers of the Constitution made this blantantly obvious because if the United States had to enter into a war, they wanted the army to be comprised of its citizens, not of the government. Why do you think the first army in the US were all national guardsmen? Because they were adhering to the strict limitations of the Constitution.

So why is this pertinent to the Titor topic? I'll enlighten you on this as well. Our government is much stronger than its citizens, which was not the intent of the founders of our country. The 2000 "election" is a prime example of this. It is only a matter of time until people stand up and take back what rightfully belongs to them... Their freedom. With that being said, what side will you be on? I know where I stand.

Let's make something else clear. In the upcoming election, we have 2 candidates. Bush, who is clearly an idiot without remorse. And Kerry, who is also an idiot without remorse. The only thing we have to go on here is to pick the lesser of the two evils. We already know what Bush has done in office. He has gotten us in two wars, and has left open the possibility of pursuing the other "axis of evil" members. Is this really what you want? Actually, join the military, then answer that... Because anyone can watch TV. Your vote is up to you, and I don't support either candidate. Right now, everyone in the world hates us, and we are only trying to dig a deeper hole. I personally don't care if Bush pulls Bin Laden out of his , because in the big picture, that does not matter anymore. I'm sure he's banking on that to ensure his reelection, but let's face some facts... What difference will it make? Does he really think he can blind people from the wars with gay marriage, Bin Laden, and pro-life? If he can, then you are truly a sheep and deserve what happens to you.

Another thing that amazes me is how quickly people shoot down this John Titor. Let me make a few things clear. I am currently a fence sitter on the issue because there is no empirical evidence in either direction whether or not he was a time travellor. What surprises me is that people are more concerned with whether he was or not, and not the message he was trying to send. Let's suppose he was just a shmuck online that decided he was fed up with what was happening and he decided to do something about it. The message is simple. American people, as a collective whole, are arrogant, egotistical, and "secluded." As if that weren't enough, our government is worse than we could ever be. It's going to catch up with us. The world will not change because some government orders it to do so. The way we change the world is to change the little things we do now as individuals. It is much easier to point the finger and say that's wrong, than it is to look at your own life and see your own imperfections.

Now let's see the flip side of the coin. Suppose John Titor is real, and travelled to our time. The question you should be asking yourself is... why? According to his story, he went back to 1975, then to 2000. Why 2000? Why not 1990? We would have had more time to change. With that being said, if he was real, I don't believe he was trying to change anything at all. He never made any predictions as far as I'm concerned. He basically told us what was in his past, not what our future held. This in turn has made me think even further... Why are people so threatened by this guy? Do you need to prove that the earth is flat, and that anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot? Sounds like a story I've heard before... Something about Columbus ring a bell?

Another interesting fact is this...
Supposing again that Titor was real...
We had someone very similar to him in our past already. It was so simple, yet we made it so difficult. You might be familiar with this story...
Someone spoke up one day and said to love your neighbor the way you would want to be loved. Pray with all of your heart. And forgive. Before you know it, we had a new religion called Christianity and catholicism. This was never intended. He came to send a simple message. One that we interpreted and changed... look where that got us. Basically, don't make deductive judgements based on what you feel inside. Look outside the box. The answer is clear and simple. We as a people need to return to the basics, not hope that some machine can do it for us.

I am not here to support the candidates, John Titor, or Jesus Christ. I am here to offer my insight into the issue. After it is all said and done, we will still be here, one way or another. What you have to decide is where you stand. Will you be a sheep and follow what people tell you. Or will you think for yourself. The information is out there... all you have to do is dig.

-J.E-

Are you saying a new religion is going to be formed because of "John Titor"? There is no way you can compare that hoax to Jesus Christ. "Titor" did nothing but make up a story that chumps took to heart. A story, and nothing more.

No, I'm not saying a new religion will be formed. I'm simply stating that the stories are similar and you can see what we did with the latter.

Originally posted by BangorangRufio
Are you saying a new religion is going to be formed because of "John Titor"? There is no way you can compare that hoax to Jesus Christ. "Titor" did nothing but make up a story that chumps took to heart. A story, and nothing more.

Firstly, what CS was saying is exactly what you just did. You took his words and twisted them to something you really disliked. He never said a single thing to connect Titor with a new religion.

Secondly, all we have is a 'story' about Jesus, that has been also grossly twisted for the needs of religious power. Yes, there is some scientific evidence that Jesus lived and walked the earth, but the rest is stories.

Cold Steel, I commend you on this thread. You pointed out the obvious, and quite obviously people don't want to hear it. People don't want to set a finger outside the box because they fear what is not common to their everyday lives. Americans are afraid of the truth, as is most of the rest of the world (hey, almost every other country is just as messed up as us, they just don't throw fits and kick and scream when they don't get their way!).

Personally, I am also 'on the fence' over this Titor thing... if he was a fake, I have a feeling that he was definitly a prophet. I see alot of the things getting ready to happen, similar to what happened (supposedly) in his timeline. Take this as a prediction: If bush wins, don't be suprised to find out that California's electronic voting booths (again) are found to have been uploaded with a virus that changes the votes, and I really wouldn't be suprised if Kerry wins that we get thrown into marshall law because of massive amounts of terrorist attacks. I don't see Bush winning fairly, yet I don't really see Kerry winning fairly either... I bet that it will all come down to who is the better cheater.

As far as Christianity is concerned, it is a twisted religion. They just make up their own rules as the years go by, just so they can appease the people (or the powers that be, and make the people think that's what they want). Better explanation? Ok... Christians are 'god fearing', ie: they do as God says to do, but they don't realize that most of the 'word of god' is really word of man. Aye, it may have been the word of God at one time in the distant past, but it has been turned around to be the word of man. I practice the basic fundamentals of Christs teachings, which is exactly what CS said: Love thy neighbor, forgive. I don't pray, because I believe that God won't help much. If I want something to change, I do it myself. Praying will get you nowhere! But that is MY belief. I really think that people need to let go of their organized religions and actually do for themselves. There are more people in this world that really only want good, but who are led astray by their religion... can you say "C R U S A D E S"?!? Now America has a 'New God', our president, and a 'New Bible', our laws. I'm sick of it, and I know countless others who are as well... some who used to be Bush supporters that are finally getting the big picture.

I told everyone I knew during the 2000 elections that we would end up in a war because of Bush, because he has to look big just like Daddy Bush... I was right, and it wasn't based on psychic predictions at all. I was actually scared to hell when I found that he won! I was really confused then... we had a choice between Idiot or Stupid. Now, we have choice between Idiot and Idiot. If we still have a country by the next elections, what's our choices gonna be then? I really think it would be left to a simple question: "What country do we wanna fight THIS time around?"

Originally posted by Cold Steel
There's no sign of civil unrest?

Titor said that there would be a 'Waco-like' event each month of this year. There hasn't been a single one. You need to keep in mind that the 'future' Titor predicts is like a militiaman's wetdream. There also are no signs of any further division between the cities and the countryside. Also notice that Titor was saying that the cities wil be places where people have opted to give up major freedoms in exchange for safety, whereas the countrysides haven't done so. How exactly is that supposed to work anyway? Its part of that ancient town and country dichotomy. Town people are debauched and decadent and weak, countryfolk are pure and moral and strong. Town people are sophisticated, cosmopolitan and 'urbane', countryfolks are uneducated, brutish and parochial. That sort of thing. Its been going on ever since there were cities apparently.


With respect to the elections, Titor seems to favour bush, and says that he ends up being a well liked and much remembered president. This is natural, since the Titor story comes out of the context of the radical right wing militia movement, which views people like the clintons and gore as the bringers of the 'American Federal Empire'. Heck, just look at the name, the 'Federal' empire? Who would even call it that but anti-federalists. And waco? That was like a holy grail for radical militiamen.

Another thing that amazes me is how quickly people shoot down this John Titor.

Well, since entire segements, plot constructs and characters are lifted out of 'Alas Babylon' with some time travel thrown in, why shouldn't people be quick to reject it. Also, everyone who seems to have looked into the propsed 'time travel' device and the physics of it find that its terribly, I mean terribly lacking. Not just 'well, in the future they can get around that stuff' type of lacking, but more like entirely wrong type of lacking.

Furthermore, its patently obvious that there are some legal shenanigans going on, what with those strange 'corporations', the book sold on ebay supposedly written by his mother, and all sorts of other garbage.

Finally, consider the photo of the laserlight geting bent by supposed 'mini black hole'. Consider that for a little while, and explain why that laser light is affect by the gravity of this black hole, but no other light is, or for that matter consider the danger of having, what was it, magnetically bound pairs of miniature black holes jumping around in a metal box.

As far as the 'message' of John Titor, it was simply this 'government bad, we should live in an idyllic pastoral society where everyone cares about each other'. Thats cute, but not so cute when you consider what lunatics like Mcveigh has done and other militiamen are plotting.

Something about Columbus ring a bell?

How is this relevant? It doesn't ring a bell.

This was never intended.

What makes you think that the guy who talked about establishing a new church wasn't interested in...establishing a new chrch?

We as a people need to return to the basics, not hope that some machine can do it for us.

What basics?

bangorang:
A story, and nothing more

Well, it was a good story. And it was very entertaining to see it all unfold. Just look at all the action. The strange phone calls to 'Pamela', the lawyers that no one can get in contact with, the secret song, the live action play, the book, the products, everything.

I look at it very much as a sort of internet dinner-murder-mystery whodunit drama. Think collaborative fiction, except that authors (after a certain point) are the audience and the actors too. I am just worried that one day there will be some sort of announcment on the relevant websites, and then its going to be revealed to all have been a run up to a new tv show or movie or kids lunchbox or something. I much prefer the hoax to that. Having said that, there are some people who's live are being horribly interefered with, I mean, horribly. And think of the pressure on a person's sanity when the are being contacted by these fictional characters. No, the hoaxers should come clean, certainly now, now that the main sequence should've started and hasn't.

I know a lot has been said about this, but the main point of this post is right on. Who cares if titor was real, look at what is real in what he said. A lot of the things we already know, some of the things we haven't thought about enough.

America is on its way to a major change. We can't keep doing the same old thing and expect a different result. We have shaped this country into a spending machine that knows no limit. Look at the 30 and younger group that believe they have a positive net worth, but owe money in the hundreds of thousands per family. All we know to do anymore is buy.

Does it really matter how it happens? We have spent our money and our kids money and the nasty fact of how this world works is that you either pay for it or you take it. As a country, we can't pay for it anymore, so we will have to take it.
Short story: Energy, money, food, disease, enviroment, natural disaster.

Which one of these is the biggest problem? Which one do we have under control?

Today we give our government power by funding their fight, but maybe one day we won't want to fuel this fight anymore and on that day a decision will have to be made. How will they control us.

I apologize NYGDAN. I should have assumed someone like you would read my post. So please allow me to clarify and retort.

There are signs of civil unrest. Who knows when it began, or how long people will take it, but the next, and most recent stage, was the signing of the Patriot Act. Please refer to my original thread for a bried definition.

You also seemed to have a problem with my view of people's dismissal of John Titor. What you failed to realize is that you only proved my theory. You are scared that he could have been real, and that all of these bad things are going to happen to you... and as a result, you try to find a way to help yourself sleep at night. My theory is this simple. People get too caught up in all of the hype, and miss the important stuff. Let's suppose that John Titor was a psychic, instead of a time travellor. Is that better? More believable? No? Ok. What if he was just an everyday person that merely stated the obvious that we are heading down a one-way road towards our own demise. Would it help if he were a relative? I'm confused about how you think, yet I'm not. You have to be able to see that it's not the person that matters... but the message. So you can take the bent lazor and stick it. I wouldn't be at all suprised if that last line upsets you.

Another part that you did not like was the part about Columbus, or at least you didn't understand. Let me clarify. Alot of people in Christopher Columbus's day were convinced that the earth was flat... while others insisted that the earth was round. You are one of the flat people, and you will remain so until you decide to take a step out of the box that you live in.

I didn't understand your comment about the church, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. What I meant was... when Christ was on the earth, he did NOT intend on starting a new religion. That was not his purpose. If that were the case, there would have been much more information passed from Christ to his followers. I am in no way intertwining the issue of John Titor and Christ. The point of that was to clarify how badly we as a people can misconstrue something so badly that a message such as "love" turns into a religion.

The Basics also came into question in your post. Ask your parents what the basics are. I'll give you a quick list to start with. Holding doors for people. Picking up people that are broke down on the side of the road. Give away what you don't need, and some that you want. Helping out, even though you don't have to. Volunteering. The basics are things that we do for other human beings without asking for something in return. But it doesn't suprise me in the least that you have no idea what I'm talking about.

To anyone else reading this, please know that I try not to be condescending, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

If any of you have serious questions, or you would like to discuss a certain part, please feel free. But I will no longer reply to those that only see black and white... we live in a grey world folks.

-C.S-

Originally posted by Cold Steel
Now let's see the flip side of the coin. Suppose John Titor is real, and travelled to our time. The question you should be asking yourself is... why? According to his story, he went back to 1975, then to 2000. Why 2000? Why not 1990? We would have had more time to change. With that being said, if he was real, I don't believe he was trying to change anything at all.

I think this is one of the best thought out arguments to the John Titor debate yet. Thankyou very much cold steel for your contribution, a very good read.

One comment I'll make is about what you said quoted above. The interet population was very high in 2000, it would have been near impossible to get his story out in 1990. Thats when I would have chosen to come back if I were to spread a message about the near future.

PS why have you signed your posts with different initials?

[edit on 27-8-2004 by superduperman]

Originally posted by Cold Steel
someone like you would read my post.

Well, this is a web forum after all, people tend to read posts.

I most certainly have not proved your idea as to people quickly dismissing the Titor story. People who quickly dismiss it don't bother get involved with it and finding out the details. I didn't dismiss it out of hand when I first started reading it,. Its something of a joke to say that people have to be 'scared' of the story in order to reject the truthfulness of it. Why haven't you been able to address any of the points as to why it should be rejected?

And , agian, as far as the message, it isn't very awe inspiring, presient, or even relevant. Titor talks about regular citizens being dragged out of their homes and into the streets to disappear. He talks about massive revocation of civil liberties, which simply hasn't happened, and isn't likely to happen. We certainly aren't 'on that road'. Patriot, while unpleasant, is not the enabling act, or anything like what titor was talking about. Also, titor talked about massive armed struggles between militias and the government, now. That was a more important part of his 'message', which, again, was hardly inspired or unique.

So you can take the bent lazor and stick it. I wouldn't be at all suprised if that last line upsets you.

Well then you can talk magnetically stabilized microsingularites that have electron streams injected on to their surfaces and shove it up your butt also. I wouldn't be the least surprised if that line excites you.

On the columbus issue, the difference was that people who used sensible and rational thought on the matter realized that the earth was round, while people who ignored the details didn't really seem too concered that the earth wasn't flat.

when Christ was on the earth, he did NOT intend on starting a new religion. That was not his purpose. If that were the case, there would have been much more information passed from Christ to his followers.

Christ told peter that he will be the rock upon which the church on earth will be built. He instructed the apostles in the religious ways, he established ceremonies, and even had himself baptized. He also told them that they don't need detailed instructions. I don't see how you can possibly claim to know that there was no such intention. Its pretty clear that the whole episode was in fact highly religious in nature, not just a simple message of be nice to each other.

Ask your parents what the basics are.

How about you ask your parents how to use the grey putty that is inside of your head. Your head is that pointy little thing atop your neck. I'll give you a quick list to start with. Holding doors for people. Picking up people that are broke down on the side of the road. Give away what you don't need, and some that you want. Helping out, even though you don't have to. Volunteering. The basics are things that we do for other human beings without asking for something in return. But it doesn't suprise me in the least that you have no idea what I'm talking about.

To anyone else reading this, please know that I try not to be condescending, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

Well, when you try to say that this titor story is beleivable, but then say, 'ahh well, all i mean is people should be nice to one another', one has to wonder why you even posted in the first place. And then to hypocritically act like a complete jerk while doing so. Well, I 'get it, man'; you don't have the faintest clue as to what the heck you are talking about.

If any of you have serious questions, or you would like to discuss a certain part, please feel free. ]But I will no longer reply to those that only see black and white... we live in a grey world folks.

I fail to see how anything I said had anything to do with 'black and white' worlds. YOu siad titor was beleivable. I addressed that issue. You said some other stuff that I addressed also. You ignored it completely. YOu obviously aren't interested in discussing the issues, but instead apparently only want ot have people agree with you.

One thing that I thought about that really separates the 'city from the country' is our inalienable right to travel. No one that lives in a city can drive any motor vehicle without a drivers license(a license is issued for a privilage not a right), but a farmer can drive his vehicles in the country without a license and is never questioned. People haven't been reading the Constitution. Look at the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. It explicitly states that the constitution is document of declaratory(rights of the people) and restrictive(ristrictions on the government) clauses. The Bill of Rights was to further declare rights and restrict the government. Does anyone here think that anything in the Constitution meant the government could request that a governmental restriction be taken out of the constitution without dishonoring the document's pretense in the first place? If anyone is not quite sure what I mean look at the Amendments after the 10th and count how many do not declare rights or restrict the government. Anything that unrestricts the government "could" be construed to be unconstitutional. Any thoughts?

I'm not so sure about the rest, but as far as the 'right to travel'; while its definite that there is a right to move about the country freely, that doesn't equate to a right to drive a car. And as far as city people not being able to drive without a license, they are under the same restrictions and freedoms as people in the countryside. Its not legal to drive on public roads without a license, in either the countryside of in the cities. Cities tend to have all roads as public ones, whereas the country side can have more private ones.

I agree that most people do not equate the inalienable right to travel with the right to drive a car, but there is no constitutional provision regulating the right to travel for private purposes or excluding motor vehicles from that right. Most people get confused with this because the government CAN regulate travel for commercial purposes but can not limit travel for private purposes. The State governments have construed their constitutional power to regulate commerse so that it covers all aspects of vehicular travel to include personel travel which is clearly towing the line. If you are unsure about this please see 18 U.S.C 31. (Title 18 of the US Code, Section 31 which defines Motor Vehicles.) The US laws do not include private motor vehicles in that definition and only includes vehicles for commercial purposes. See for yourself. It's a brain buster that I haven't quite come to terms with. I only mentioned this because of the confusion of the matter and it's the only comparison that I could think of about problems between cities and country areas. Most State's Code of Laws do exclude farmers and their farm vehicles from registration or having to have licenses to operate on the roads, tho the laws will vary from state to state. I hope I cleared that up, if any, and I'm so sorry if I've confused anyone.

The reason I signed with different initials is simple. The first time I signed it, I did so with my initials, and the second with the initials of my call sign. I didn't want to further complicate things for people, so I changed it to -C.S- in hopes of lessening confusion... sorry for the mix up.

Round 3... Ding Ding...
Allow me to start with retracting one of my previous statements. I should not have said the bit about people like you reading posts like these... I should have seen that it was inevitable.

Now, if my aim is off, and you aren't scared of the issue, then I shall pose a question. Why are you so willing and eager to start a discussion about something that was not included in this thread? While the title is "the real john titor issue," it is only being used as a reference point to a much larger and diverse question... Exactly what road are we on?

As far as discussing the Titor issue with you is much like the blind leading the blind, as I don't know any more about it than you do. In fact, all that we are going on is the fact that someone started to post on a forum a few years ago... and that's about it. You can get stirred up if you want to, and open up any photo editing program that you'd like, but that is not what I'm here to discuss. I'm sure you can find plenty of other people that will argue the specifics about what was said and what wasn't with thousands of other people. And in reality, I believe you are posting here off topic because it allows you to be heard... however faint it might be.

Now, as far as you proving my point... I couldn't have asked for a better guinnea pig. Not only have you entered on your own free will, but now you are willing to dig yourself a hole by not looking at what is presented to you. You instead persist on creating issues with wordy paragraphs in hopes that someone out there will believe or pity you. My friend that isn't here.

And you must be blind if you believe that we are not on a crash course. Did you honestly think that one day, everything would snap into place, and people would run to the countryside, police would instantly begin entrenching on people's rights, and Bush would just come out and say Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction? I believe you have watched too many movies. If you find no meaning in Titor's post, then you aren't looking. Furthermore, I believe all of your evidence for shooting him down is based on what others have said and what research others have done. So before you start throwing "facts" around, I would make sure I research and test them on my own first. Here's a news flash for you. Scientists have been making amazing breakthroughs that will allow them to capture black holes over the next 5 years. If i'm not mistaken, Dr. Hawking, the leading guru for advancing our knowledge of black holes, has recently said some stunning things as of late. Perhaps you should check it out for yourself. www.economist.com...

In the article, he says that it won't be possible to travel to other universes. But his findings said that it would be possible to travel within our own timeline. Now with a breakthrough like this, do you really think that we won't advance this technology? C'mon.

On to the Columbus issue. The most important thing about your argument is the word "thought." Yes, many people think. But Columbus bet his life that he was right. And it turns out, he was. As far as this not being big news or people not caring, I think you're wrong. Actually, it was quite disturbing for the people of that time.

Here we go with Christ. You are basing your argument on what was said. Keep this FACT in mind. The first bible was not written until 40 years after Christ's death. Let's suppose that you had to write an accurate account of the attack on Sept. 11th. What would it include? Hijackers... 4 plane crashes, buildings... and that's about it. Now, to prove this point. Can you remember one full conversation that you had with someone the day before it happened? Why is that? Because something that tramatic seems to come to the forefront. Now let's multiply that lost information by 13 and see how well you remember. My calculation is based on the fact that Sept. 11 occurred approx. 3 years ago, and I'm comparing it to the 40 years or so that the bible was written. You don't think that it's possible in the least that Peter fudged some of what was said? Think about it. Infact, Christianity didn't even start until the 2nd or 3rd century. You also brought up the point of baptism... I have a news flash for you here as well. Do you know why he was baptised? Baptism was a pagan ceremony used to demonstrate a cleansing. Baptism is not Christian specific, as I'm sure you'd like to believe. Therefore, this is only a classic case of monkey see monkey do. And yes, we are the monkey's. Christ simply said... Pick up your cross and follow in my footsteps. The great thing about people is that I see it as treating people with respect and humbling yourself, while you see it as actually picking up a cross and getting nailed to it. So I'd like you to do me a favor. I'd like you to find me a quote from the bible, however uncredible it might be, of Christ saying anything about starting a new religion. When you have done so, I'll continue this argument.

You're section on the "Basics" was quite revealing. You showed your ability to copy/paste. Nice job.

If you read my original argument, I believe I stated specifically that I neither believe nor do I not believe in John Titor. That is where the discrepency lies. You are caught up on what you want to hear, and what is actually being said.

As far as you believing that I only want to be agreed with...
Have I asked anyone to agree with me? Have I asked for your approval? Infact, all of my posts have been arguments about the original thread... with the exception of dissecting a few of your own retorts.

-C.S-

Originally posted by Nygdan
Finally, consider the photo of the laserlight geting bent by supposed 'mini black hole'. Consider that for a little while, and explain why that laser light is affect by the gravity of this black hole, but no other light is, or for that matter consider the danger of having, what was it, magnetically bound pairs of miniature black holes jumping around in a metal box.

Thank you , havn't bothered to read the rest of this post as it is the same as the billions of others (exaggeration in numbers noted)....
But this is one key point as if there were not any others, as pointed out by myself in one post and as the fundamental start of another post by Kano, entitle something along the lines of 'John Titor Hoax Thread' - if the laser light was being bent then all the light would be bent, proportionally - therefore the laser would NOT appear to be bent. Anything other than this would appear in a dramatic lensing effect that would be damn obvious!! You don't have to be a top scientist to work this one out boys and girls!!! It's pretty damn obvious when yo uthink about it....

Sorry if anyone else said this before me, like I said I couldn't be bothered to read this AGAIN and I couldn't keep my long beaky nose out of it!!!!

If the 2008 Olympics are held then Titor has contradicted himself.

01/29/01 12:25 (about the future) 238
((Are the Olympics still being played in your time?))
As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004. However, it appears they may be revived in in 2040.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i was under the ipmpression that titor claimed his visit would almost certainly alter our timeline....and that was WITHOUT him blabbing about his time travel mission on the internet. so, even if he was the real deal, what assurance do we have of actually living through the time he sees in his own past???

even if time travel is possible, the particulars of this go far beyond the quantum physics and engineering needed to make the actual time travel vehicle. there is bound to be an entire branch of science revolving around how one's actions produce ripples and modulations in the timeline they've chosen to visit.... we might just live in such a timeline.

I want one of those hyper-dimensional resonators is'nt that what that time device he used was it even had the coil and touch plates so many of his predictions have and are panning out that it baffels me to say the least .

Let me get this straight. Civil war will begin in the US in 2004-2005, then there will be a nuclear war and by 2036, someone will possess a time machine and come back? Just the timeline seems to call into question the validity of all this, not to mention the physics.

I have, however predicted civil war in the US following the 2004 Presidential election myself. Nuclear war is not out of the question, but with all this going on who is going to be building a time machine? It's a lot easier to craft a hoax than a time machine, I think.

It sounds too much like "12 Monkeys." A fine film, I might add.

[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]

This guy, John Titor became so famous here, that he should even get an award for that.

I personally think, that he is a liar, and just wants to recieve popularity... In person, he may not even exist, only some kids having great fun on us laughing, how dumb we are to believe in this bull.