Iran shows hatred for U.S.

Originally posted by torque
I don't see giving someone who hates us a bunch of money and aid and bribing their religious leaders and cutting off others who are friendly to us

Let me just say it was more a figure of speech. I don't believe a second that Israel will be cut off under any circumstances, because its lobby here in the US has, fittingly, Biblical proportions.

I also didn't suggest outright giveaway to people who hate us, in the direct sense. That would be nonsense.

But bridges need to be built, and there are right causes to support even in Iran.

I'm more of the "How about if you stop acting like a bunch of douchebags for 5 minutes, and we'll stop acting like a bunch of douchebags for 5 minutes and then maybe we can sit down at the table and figure this out".

Well see, for Iranians the stop to the douchbag routine would probably mean the US needs to reevaluate its support of Israel.

JamestheLesser:

Why would we give anything to the terrorists? I mean palestinians? They don't want the West Bank, they want Israel gone. The only way to appease them is to nuke Israel. They are taught that jews go out and eat their babies. They are taught the reason life is bad for them is because of the jews, not because Arafat has a few million dollars he hoards to himself and his upper class. About 90% of the wealth of the palestinians bleongs to Arafat&Co.

Wow, back that Propaganda Truck up and drive it out of here. Palestinians are taught that Jews go out and eat their babies? They don't want their land, they just want to kill Israelis?

Tell me, how much time have you spent in the Occupied Territories asking these questions of Palestinians? How many days or weeks or months have you spent living in one of the most densely populated places on the face of the planet, asking the locals what they think?

Or are you in fact just making this stuff up or parroting some wacko Zionist claptrap?

People are people, we all basically want the same things.

"We'll be your friend if you stop being friends with them".

Didn't work in elementary school and won't cut it with me now. If Iran genuinely wanted to lower their douchebag standing, they'd do it without those kind of strings. Ask that a friendship be rethought. Ask if we'll at least read the pamphlet and consider their position. But don't ask that we dump somebody. It's not how it's done. The world is too complex a business to run that way. If their motivation is to rearrange the alliances that another country has, then they don't really want to patch things up. That's why none of this mess is ever going to get resolved. No countries are straight up about anything anymore.

Originally posted by torque
Iran genuinely wanted to lower their douchebag standing, they'd do it without those kind of strings.

I'm like really, really, really far from having tons of sympathy to Iran, you know. Still, calling them douchebags is no way to make progress on this one. Iran is a theocratic state, but there is hope. There are lots of people in Iran who don't like they way things are run. They can be your friends.

You can't just say screw them I don't care. The world is changing. Very soon (in 20 years) the WMD will be accessible to a few more regimes (and groups_ around the world, and it will be increasingly harder to stamp them out. Assuming there are still a few reasonable people on either side (I and I think that there must be a few even in Iran), we must work out a compromise.

Again, I have like nothing against Israel, but you call it your best friend and for what -- that it absorbs tons of the US military aid annualy? And how do they pay back?

OK here I go

The Middle Eastern countries that foment an idealistic version of Militant Islam are battling for nothing less than complete and utter rule of the world, the complete destruction of Israel, and the United States, a return to old law, which includes keeping women as property, exacting " justice " without trial or representation, and keeping personal freedom squelched and defined by a few powerful clerics / mullahs whom are as greedy and selfish as any Western leader .

Do they actually hate us ? or do they just not understand us? Both are probably true. The United States is the best country that the world has to offer in the way of diversity, personal freedom, justice, and equality. - I know it is not perfect , I know we have had our problems, but the fact remains that this country was founded by immigrants and continues to this day to take in those from around the world that want to join us.

What is it about the United States that makes the Islamic Exteremists hate us so? It can really only be that the US is not giving into their perveted view of Islam. The US govenment, under Bush has made a decision to proactivley defend the USA and our friends , worldwide , from possible extremism, rather than sit by idly watching as dangers grow. Does Bush have ties to Big Oil ? the military Industrial complex ? - sure - Does it mean that he doesnt think that the protection of this nation and its people are his main objecives and paramount to his legacy ? I know some of you will argue this with me but Bush is doing what he thinks is the best thing to do and that is to do SOMETHING. We will have to wait and see just how history judges him.

Back to Iran

So in Iran we have an Islamic State, rattling its sabre against a nation that it knows will not sit idly by and watch as danger grows. If the Iranians and for that matter any country in the middle east are that worried about an attack from the United States - it is my opinion that perhaps now would be a good time for them to make concessions to the calls of the USA. Tell me why the United States is required to defend her position , we are not the ones in violation of IAEA inspectiors. Iran has the ability to diffuse the current brewing crisis by simply abiding to the calls of the international community at large. Why should they you ask? because if they dont it will be war.


I respect Bush for having the balls to address this major , global problem. Had Clinton done anything while he was in office perhaps things would be different , then again maybe not. It doesn't really matter. The United States is facing a very cunning, historic, and well indoctrinated foe, we will either win the battle or die trying , but to do nothing is nothing short of madness.

I especially liked McCains speech when he referenced Bush's State of the Union where he stated that the United States will offensively seek out and destroy terrorists, and their enablers, including those that foment hate against us, and those that harbor groups that want to bring us pain. You as nations of the world are either with the USA in battling extremism, and the murder of countless innocents ...or you are with the terrorists. plain and simple and to the point . The choice is yours

Either lead, follow, or get out of the way

[edit on 31-8-2004 by Alias Jones]

Originally posted by Alias Jones

I know some of you will argue this with me but Bush is doing what he thinks is the best thing to do and that is to do SOMETHING. We will have to wait and see just how history judges him.

In a way, it already has.

it is my opinion that perhaps now would be a good time for them to make concessions to the calls of the USA. Tell me why the United States is required to defend her position , we are not the ones in violation of IAEA inspectiors.

Do you care to send inspectors to Israel?

Iran has the ability to diffuse the current brewing crisis by simply abiding to the calls of the international community at large.

Well there are some countries who think that having nuclear power plants is fine.

I respect Bush for having the balls to address this major , global problem.

Oh yeah? I don't see Al Qaeda is weakened in any way, according to the available data.

but to do nothing is nothing short of madness.

Wasting resources in Iraq is even worse than doing nothing.

Either lead, follow, or get out of the way

I think I heard you on a different board when you advocated the bombing of Serbia. Am I wrong?

I was for the Balkan war - and the ouster of Milosovec - and am satisfied with the outcome of that operation. - you are not ?

wasting resources in Iraq ? I think it is most definately not a waste - a free and democratic presence in the Middle East is much needed and long overdue - in time the occupation of Iraq will end and with hope they will be a beacon of freedom in an all to oppressed region

"quote:
I'm more of the "How about if you stop acting like a bunch of douchebags for 5 minutes, and we'll stop acting like a bunch of douchebags for 5 minutes and then maybe we can sit down at the table and figure this out".


"Well see, for Iranians the stop to the douchbag routine would probably mean the US needs to reevaluate its support of Israel. "

You'll see I attribute douchebaggery to all governments, not just Iran. They seem a thick-skinned people, and I'm sure they've called us much, much worse.

Israel is not our "best friend". You're obsessed with Israel. Whatever your problem is with them, I'm sure there's a thread on here somewhere to address it. This is about Iran. Laying it off on other countries isn't going to cut it. Iran has the power to determine their own destiny. They can decide what they're going to do and what kind of place they're going to be. All they have to do is stop harboring and aiding terrorists and behave like civillized people. That's all anyone on this planet really has to do. Any country. No government approved/sponsored/aided terrorism and no putting people through a wood-chipper. No honor killing a teenage girl because her brothers raped her. No government sponsored torture, murder and oppression of women. No starving the citizens to death while living high on the hog in a palace. None of this has anything to do with any other countries or who their friends are. ALL of this has to do with any given country's government deciding how they are going to behave, present themselves to the world, and care for their citizens.