Muslim nations demand Israel open its nuke program to IAEA viewing

reply to post by nenothtu


I can see how your conclusion was reached. Using the term "Jew" loosely as they do can be offensive to some people, and I can understand why in most instances. I also have noticed how people from all sides of opinion confuse and or mix religion and politics. I find this a very slippery slope to walk on.

In my opinion the tricky part with Zionism or Muslim extremism is that they are political ideologies fueled by by religion. Much of the time Zionists and Arab extremists use religion to influence their political opinions in the name of their god. Since both these groups I have mentioned hide behind their religion to forward their political agenda, it is difficult to not bring up which ever religion they claim to justify their actions.

I will admit that some of his comments were poor in taste, but I believe many of them were bang on. Of course that is my interpretation and we are all going to have different perspectives on things.

I guess my main point is that as long as these groups or organizations hide behind religion, there will always be critics of these religions for various reasons. As I stand I can't condemn any of Bravo's statements due to the factual evidence he has used to back them up. I know many of them seemed out of line, but the truth is ugly most of the time.

Well, my off topic rant is over for now. I hope it made sense.

reply to post by coolieno99


www.strategypage.com... thread from another site with some info on it (seems to be the consensus is french and south africa)


"Israel produces uranium domestically as a by-product of phosphate mining near the Dead Sea but this amounts to only 10 tons a year, and is grossly insufficient for its needs. Israel has addressed this shortfall by reprocessing the low burnup spent fuel to recover uranium (which most nations do not do). It is also known to have purchased at least 200 tons of natural uranium on the world market under an alias. A major source though was some 600 tons of uranium provided by South Africa in a quid pro quo for Israel's assistance on its weapons program. Combined with uranium recycling, and the possible use of enrichment to stretch the uranium supply, these quantities may be sufficient to account for Dimona's fuel supply to the present date" (1997). nuclearweaponarchive.org... so they seem to have a limited domestic supply from phosphate mining

www.time.com... very interesting read on where they got there stuff from hope i helped

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


My little Canadian friend........YOU have great vision? I almost pissed my pants laughing over that! Jeezes, the things you kids come up with these days. The only vision you'll ever see in your life time is the one my generation give ya! The game is fixed and by the time we've finished you'll get the leftovers.

Please before you show us your homework project, you have edited it for spelling mistakes, you have added reliable sources and you have'nt attempted plagiarism which is all you kids seem to do these days.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Exactly what factual evidence has Bravo used for any of his less than remotely intelligent arguments?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Probably just a personal problem for me then. I'm not jewish, and as I said before I don't care what prejudices another has, but to try to hide them behind terminology is, in my mind, dishonest. Folks should be proud of the opinions they hold, make no bones about it.

You are correct, there IS a masterful amount of confusion going on in the matter. I myself don't refer to "muslims" when what I mean is islamist extremists, "jews" when I mean zionists, or "christians" when I mean KKK, but that's just me - I like to try to be clear, although I don't always succeed. You're also correct in stating that in the Middle East itself, vast numbers of people don't make the distinction between government and religion. I'm not there, however, so I do make that distinction.

At ATS I see the word "zionist" bandied about far too much - just as "terrorist" is currently, "socialist" has been recently, and "communist" was 25 years ago. It's over-used, and tends to lose meaning because of that, and bleed into other concepts. I don't see a zionist around every corner, in my closet, or under my bed. Still, they get added to the list of "ists" and "isms" that I am supposed to be scared of, 'cause they're gonna git me fer sure! I just don't find them to be as prevalent as some would have us believe, nor as dangerous.

I put "zionists" on my boogey man list to scare kids with.

It's the interchangeability of "zionist" and "jew" that raises alarms, just as the attempts at making "terrorist" and "constitutionalist" interchangeable should raise alarms. Precision is especially important in light of the fact that you never know what kind of nut-case might be reading, and make that equation in his own mind, and off we go!

There truly are nutballs out there who will burn down the corner deli because mom and pop Moscowitz are clearly zionists - they've got that star thingy hanging around that zionists have, y'know? I saw that sort of thing first-hand after 9-11, when folks were attacking any one darker than they were because those Sikhs from India (for example) were clearly "muslim terrorists" - they had those rag thingies on their heads, beards, AND that darker skin - what else could they be?

Now, as to his opinion vs. "factual evidence", I've seen a lot of the former, and practically none of the latter in his posts in this thread, but I never demanded any of him - I just took it all as opinion, and left it at that. As opinion goes, his is as valid as mine or anyone elses - facts would be a different matter. There's generally only one valid set of "facts".

The OP is "Muslim" nations demand "Israel" (The Jewish State) open its nuke program to IAEA viewing

It is a game of rock, paper scissors with the Jews / Israelis / Zionists.

When it is convenient for them them, they are Israelis.
When it is convenient for them them, they are Zionists.
When it is convenient for them them, they are Jews.

Often they are Zionists right up to the point that they start losing the argument then the next comment you "throw" is anti-Semtitic because they become a Jew suddenly.

*****************************
The good Jews.
The Jews I like.
The Jews that like us.
The honest Jews.
The Jews for justice.
*****************************

Here is a very short list of people from a very long list of well over 5,000 high-profile Jews world-wide who reject Zionism.

Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent
Ralph Schoenman: The Hidden History of Zionism (1988)
Jack Bernstein: The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel
Norman Finkelstein: Beyond Chutzpah
Allegra Pacheco, Israeli lawyer and human rights advocate
Gilad Atzmon, jazz musician, former Israeli who is brave enough to call a spade a spade
Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People
Rabbi Chaim Lefkowitz: man of peace, God bless him

Here is the difference between a reasonable, thoughful, educated caring man who happens to be a Jewish Rabbi and a lunatic, Zionist Jew scumbag. You decide.



The man of peace, God bless him, Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss

"Dismantle the political state of Israel"

ZIONISM is a FRAUD

That is why not only Muslim nations but every nation should demand Israel sign the NPT and get in line with every other international agreement instead of being the terrorist nation they are now.

Lying Zionist Bastards

Israel sells US military technology to China

Eugene Kogan, a defense-industry analyst, writes in the Jamestown Foundation's China Brief that while Israel has rebuffed Taiwan's repeated attempts to revive relations with it, "when it comes to contact with China, the Israeli Ministry of Defense (MOD) promotes a clear-cut policy. China is an extremely important trade partner for the Israeli defense industry. As a result, the MOD, which oversees the arms trade with China, has ensured that Israel maintains a positive relationship with the PRC [People's Republic of China], while avoiding any contact with Taiwan which might disrupt this partnership."

I don't think I ever claimed that Israel sold China nuclear weapons.

If anything they gave China nuclear weapons know-how - being the lying scumbag bastards they are.

Some experts claim tha Israel tested its nuclear weapons in China and in exchange gave the Chinese nuclear "secrets."

Read this...

US Army officer on Israel and nuclear weapons

This paper is a history of the Israeli nuclear weapons program drawn from a review of unclassified sources. Israel began its search for nuclear weapons at the inception of the state in 1948. As payment for Israeli participation in the Suez Crisis of 1956, France provided nuclear expertise and constructed a reactor complex for Israel at Dimona capable of large-scale plutonium production and reprocessing. The United States discovered the facility by 1958 and it was a subject of continual discussions between American presidents and Israeli prime ministers. Israel used delay and deception to at first keep the United States at bay, and later used the nuclear option as a bargaining chip for a consistent American conventional arms supply.

After French disengagement in the early 1960s, Israel progressed on its own, including through several covert operations, to project completion. Before the 1967 Six-Day War, they felt their nuclear facility threatened and reportedly assembled several nuclear devices. By the 1973 Yom Kippur War Israel had a number of sophisticated nuclear bombs, deployed them, and considered using them. The Arabs may have limited their war aims because of their knowledge of the Israeli nuclear weapons. Israel has most probably conducted several nuclear bomb tests. They have continued to modernize and vertically proliferate and are now one of the world's larger nuclear powers. Using “bomb in the basement” nuclear opacity, Israel has been able to use its arsenal as a deterrent to the Arab world while not technically violating American nonproliferation requirements.

42. Abecasis, Rachel, “Uranium reportedly offered to China, Israel.” Radio Renascenca, Lisbon, 9 December 1992 quoted in Center for Nonproliferation, “Proliferation Issues,” 23 December, 1992, 25; on-line, Internet 22 November 1998, available from cns.miis.edu....

In 1990, during the Second Gulf War, an Israeli reserve major general recommended to America that it “use non-contaminating tactical nuclear weapons” against Iraq.113

India, another nuclear power, bring up questions of nuclear cooperation.105 Pakistani sources have already voiced concerns over a possible joint Israeli-Indian attack on Pakistan's nuclear facilities.106 A recent Parameters article speculated on Israel's willingness to furnish nuclear capabilities or assistance to certain states, such as Turkey.107 A retired Israeli Defense Force Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Amnon Shahak, has declared, “all methods are acceptable in withholding nuclear capabilities from an Arab state.”108

American-born Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard obtained satellite-imaging data of the Soviet Union, allowing Israel to target accurately Soviet cities. This showed Israel's intention to use its nuclear arsenal as a deterrent political lever, or retaliatory capability against the Soviet Union itself. Israel also used American satellite imagery to plan the 7 June 1981 attack on the Tammuz-1 reactor at Osiraq, Iraq.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


No one is asking you to believe it. Your biased speculation is pointless. You just keep repeating the same rhetoric.

'If they want nukes they should withdraw from the treaty'.

They never claimed to want nukes, you have no proof of it, and you want Israel to go to war over unproven fearmongering speculation.

Meanwhile, Israel DOES have nukes, refuses to sign the treaty, therefore is a hostile entity disrupting peace within the middle east. All of this can be proven.

What you "believe" but cannot prove is completely irrelevant, clown.

It's really simple...if Israel expects Iran to open it's programs to inspections, they should agree to open their program too. So whenever they demand access, they should add a "we'll grant access too" paragraph.

Until they do that, they can't be taken seriously.