Republican: the party of ignorance and greed?

Originally posted by nenothtu

I will NEVER vote for anyone who supports Unions. NEVER. They are as much a part of the problem as corporations - perhaps even more so, since they have such a violent bent. I worked in a Union shop ONE time, and will NEVER have anything to do with them again, nor ever support them. NEVER. I will starve first, and that's not an idle promise.

Thanks. That is ALL I neeed to know from you. Our entire discussion has been in vain as clearly you are part of the dark side. It would probably be a waste of time telling you if it wasn't for unions indentured servitude and job rellated accients would be more common.

Your NO FRIEND of mine. I just want to make that ABSOLUTELY CLEAR! Now go tell president obama to ship more jobs overseas so they can exploit the stupid chineese while both the american welfare system, ss, medicaid/medicare, unemployment go bankrupt because government cannot collect taxes from the so called "lazy".

Corporations are the enemy of unions and vice versa. This is politics 101! And anyone who claims unions are corrupt is trying to obfuscate/sidestep the rivarly between the two. One helps the poor majority while the other lines some wall street thug with billions more in revenue because if you can get away with greed its a human trait after all.

Don't BS me. I am not stupid!!!

Originally posted by macman

Sorry, but SS is not bankrupt due to Military spending.
SS is bankrupt because first, it was placed into the hands and control of the Fed Govt, two it was a (Insert scheme) Scheme to begin with, three it has been bastardized into something it was not deigned for and four it was never designed to be a static program with no end.

To a large degree YES our social welfare system IS bankrupt due to military over-spending. To understand this you need to understand what the dod classified budget is, how the cia and nsa operate, how much money goes to reverse engineering alien technology at area 51/dulce/montauk and how much money goes to build doomsday bunkers for the elite.

Do you really think the usa government gives a flying monkeys ass about the average serviceman? Please man don't insult my intelligence. I am not going to call you anything other than ignorant and/or naive at this point.

Just consider the fact out of 250+ nations on this planet only american and australia are so conservative that they refuse to accept responsibility for society and shift all their attention to pleasing multi-national corporations and big banks. If you really think that is socialism then I don't know what to tell you other than your wayyy wrong. Its state capitalism and I provided defintions from wikipedia which is not the best source of information but at least it gives a brief introduction.

Government is the problem only because we LET IT become a problem through our ignorance and temporary apathy. When your automobile engine misfires you don't buy a new car, instead you replace or rebuild the engine to keep the car. Only a conservative will tell you BUY A NEW CAR because his allegiance is misplaced in regard to SPEND MORE MONEY...the economy needs your perpetual slavery!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman

 

It is one of a handful of entities in the nation that does not go "Out of House" for funding as it's self financed hence why it cannot go broke.

It will become broke no matter what its original balance was because too much money is being diverted AWAY from social services to bailout financial institutions that speculate peoples' money into the sewer, too many simultaneous wars being fought, the dod classified budget AND the bond holders of the debt demanding frequent payments.

You can only raise the debt ceiling so many times before someone calls your bluff and the whole PYRAMID SCHEME collapses.

Perry had to apologize for saying it was heartless to turn our backs on children who were brought here illegally through no fault of our own.

Republican base cheers on the idea of eliminating corporate federal income tax, to generate even more money and power for corporations while complaining about low income workers who don't pay taxes.

Republican base will time and time again choose corporations over people.

Republican base will deny the science of global warming to perpetuate their own corporate greed.

Republicans will deny support for teachers, poor, sick, and unemployed... in favor of corporate profits.

While wealthy corporations have prospered the last 10 years, the people have suffered, and the republican base would have you believe its these corporations that need more support? Exactly how much support does a wealthy corporation need when its profits increase over the last ten years but unemployment only decreases?

Republican base has become the party of ignorance, greed, heartlessness... They are the anti-human party. If you follow the teachings of Christ and believe all suffering people are deserving of love and support, then you might say the republican base has become the party of "anti-Christ" teachings, meaning they follow the exact opposite of what people have been taught to be the higher moral path.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman

 

It is one of a handful of entities in the nation that does not go "Out of House" for funding as it's self financed hence why it cannot go broke.

It will become broke no matter what its original balance was because too much money is being diverted AWAY from social services to bailout financial institutions that speculate peoples' money into the sewer, too many simultaneous wars being fought, the dod classified budget AND the bond holders of the debt demanding frequent payments.

You can only raise the debt ceiling so many times before someone calls your bluff and the whole PYRAMID SCHEME collapses.

Obama diverted half the bailout into student loans and such... a little known fact.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


The taxpayer wasn't on the hook for one red cent of the TARP programs as when The Congress gave them money the American taxpayer became a shareholder as we had a seat at the Board table with a high interest rate which is why they were quick to pay it back.

This is fact, SS didn't finance TARP!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by nenothtu

I will NEVER vote for anyone who supports Unions. NEVER. They are as much a part of the problem as corporations - perhaps even more so, since they have such a violent bent. I worked in a Union shop ONE time, and will NEVER have anything to do with them again, nor ever support them. NEVER. I will starve first, and that's not an idle promise.

Thanks. That is ALL I neeed to know from you. Our entire discussion has been in vain as clearly you are part of the dark side.

Dark side? I'm not the one going around ambushing innocent folks who are only going about their business, or trying to twist their arms until they join my gang. You want your unions? Fine, have 'em. Just be forwarned that when they start their shennanigans up around me, there's gonna be more trouble than they bargained for, just like last time. I don't play well with thugs and bullies.

It would probably be a waste of time telling you if it wasn't for unions indentured servitude and job rellated accients would be more common.

Sure. keep on chanting that - it'll never make it true, but it might make you feel better. BTW, IF frogs had wings, they wouldn't go bumping their asses on the ground...

Your NO FRIEND of mine. I just want to make that ABSOLUTELY CLEAR!

Fine by me. That's your choice. The Crips, the Bloods, the SEIU and UMWA all feel the same about me. They don't hurt my feelings either. Thugs are thugs, the world around. I've been up close and personal with all of the above.

Now go tell president obama to ship more jobs overseas so they can exploit the stupid chineese while both the american welfare system, ss, medicaid/medicare, unemployment go bankrupt because government cannot collect taxes from the so called "lazy".

Obama is YOUR fearless leader, not mine. YOU tell him what to do.

Corporations are the enemy of unions and vice versa. This is politics 101!

They'd like you to THINK that. I suppose in a way they ARE rivals - against one another. Ain't NONE of 'em looking out for you or me. They just want to enlist us into their respective gangs for use as muscle and cannon fodder. Their objectives are the same as anyone elses - they're looking out for THEMSELVES. It's up to the rest of us to look out for US.

And anyone who claims unions are corrupt is trying to obfuscate/sidestep the rivarly between the two.

Baloney. I say they're corrupt because they ARE - I've seen it first hand, and you'll not convince me across the internet that my own eyes were just playing tricks on me. I give less than a crap about their pitiful rivalries. That's THEIR rivalry, and they're not going to press-gang me into their problems.

One helps the poor majority

I presume you are alluding to the union side here, and that's a load of unadulterated crap. the "poor" are the ones getting caught in the crossfire. They're the ones getting beat down by the unions, having their cars and trucks burned, and having to dodge the bullets just to get to school when contract "renegotiations" roll around. Don't try to BS me - I was one of the ones dodging UMWA bullets to get to school when I was just a kid.

while the other lines some wall street thug with billions more in revenue because if you can get away with greed its a human trait after all.

Thugs are thugs the world 'round, and so are your precious unions.

Don't BS me. I am not stupid!!!

Likewise.

ETA: You oughtta talk that crap to a couple of friends of mine. They're widows now because their husbands were out trying to eke out a living and feed their families, and some union thug though that ought not to be allowed. "Helping the poor" and "looking out for the working man" my dyin' ass.

reply to post by nenothtu


Not sure how you always manage to stay so calm yet so eloquent...however, well defended and stated



ETA
I left this thread long ago after I realized many don't seem to realize/understand (and never will) that unless you fall into the top 10% of the wealth in this nation, we're all looked at like a bunch of pansies and peons. You Reps., Dems, Tea Party or whatever you all call yourselfs are just bait.

Meaning of Peon

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Not sure how you always manage to stay so calm yet so eloquent...however, well defended and stated

It's only in the appearance. Smooth on the outside, crunchy on the inside. There's still steam flying out of my ears, but I'm hoping to harness it as a renewable source of energy for green cooking... You know, put the UMWA out of business if coal can't be mined any more.

ETA
I left this thread long ago after I realized many don't seem to realize/understand (and never will) that unless you fall into the top 10% of the wealth in this nation, we're all looked at like a bunch of pansies and peons. You Reps., Dems, Tea Party or whatever you all call yourselfs are just bait.

Meaning of Peon

That's the thing - they are for THEM and only want US to power their respective juggernauts. WE are nothing more than "renewable resources" to THEM, ALL of them. Unions and corporations alike. When you go to work in a "union shop", as I did for a few months in the mid-90's under the tender mercies of the SEIU, you STILL have no say, and are STILL a "peon" - you just have TWO masters then, the union and the shop both, and are forced to cough up part of your pay every week to just keep working there, with little or no say in how things are run. The Union Bosses decide where they money goes, whether you like it or not, and don't bother to ask what YOU would like to see done with it. It's nothing more than a form of extortion which is increasingly becoming a state-sanctioned enterprise. I don't see the advantage in trading one master for another, and I REALLY don't see the advantage in accepting TWO masters.

They can ALL bite me.

ETA: Still working on that missing time problem, hitting roadblocks.

reply to post by macman


Mac, some people just cannot be reasoned with....I have given up on them...I agree with your arguments.

reply to post by nenothtu


Well, I was in shock one day when I went to a new job orientation for what I will say an unnamed corp with a high profile, and they set aside an hour for the Unions to come in and recruit a whole new bunch of employees. Signature cards were handed out and all but a fraction signed up right away no questions asked. So that is how they are recruiting now.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


How terribly civilized of them! Where I was, if you took the job, you took the union too. No choice in the matter. That lasted all of 6 or 8 months for me before I'd had enough, and moved on to saner pastures, I'm really not sure what this "card check" ruckus is about, but I probably ought to study up on it. I usually stay as far away from unions as I can, and don't care what they do as long as they aren't endangering me or mine, so I'm remiss in not educating myself in that matter.

When unions move in, it's time for me to move out - or else start filling sand bags.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


TARP was not financed or taken from the SS fund as that was independent from the SS fund hence why the taxpayer was never in jeopardy as the taxpayer became a shareholder.

Originally posted by nenothtu

That's the thing - they are for THEM and only want US to power their respective juggernauts. WE are nothing more than "renewable resources" to THEM, ALL of them. Unions and corporations alike. When you go to work in a "union shop", as I did for a few months in the mid-90's under the tender mercies of the SEIU, you STILL have no say, and are STILL a "peon" - you just have TWO masters then, the union and the shop both, and are forced to cough up part of your pay every week to just keep working there, with little or no say in how things are run. The Union Bosses decide where they money goes, whether you like it or not, and don't bother to ask what YOU would like to see done with it. It's nothing more than a form of extortion which is increasingly becoming a state-sanctioned enterprise. I don't see the advantage in trading one master for another, and I REALLY don't see the advantage in accepting TWO masters.

They can ALL bite me.

ETA: Still working on that missing time problem, hitting roadblocks.

edit on 2011/9/29 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

It seems you and your friends had a bad experience with unions in the past. I am not sure how much stock to put in your allegations, but all I know is that unions provide a counter-balance to big and small corporations alike.

Without them there would be no such thing as collective bargaining were a group of workers unite to protect their collective interest in wages, work hours, safety conditions and some form of representation with government. Without unions corporations would have the leeway to be much more dominating then they currently are and yes unions are losing their power.

If you want working conditions to go back to the age of feudalism, then by all means keep hating unions and seek to be the boss of yourself. I doubt that strategy will get you far unless of course you are not what you claim to be or you had special considerations the union boss should have considered and you got all sore that he ignored you.

Thats all I got to say on unions because we are going off-topic here.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Thats all I got to say on unions because we are going off-topic here.

And yet, this position to vilify unions in order to pay laborers less and take away their bargaining power, is exactly the sort of ignorance and greed consistently peddled by the Republican base.

Apparently, corporate greed and corruption is something to be protected while unions are made to be the enemy.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I would not necessarily call them ignorant on this issue because it depends on the circumstances. Some people have been brainwashed to think of unions as "evil and parasitic" by the right, while the smart ones simply look after their own private best interests.

If I was a big corporation I would certainly want unions to die off so I could exploit the work force and show a bigger bottom line. Lets face it, wall street is all about greed and greed drives the capitalist economy. If you can't maximise profits then future investors will not flock in to invest/speculate.

With hindsight why have so many american and european firms left their original base of operations to go to asia and especially china? Ah the cheap wages and lack of regulations! See it all fits in...nice and coosey.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

It seems you and your friends had a bad experience with unions in the past. I am not sure how much stock to put in your allegations, but all I know is that unions provide a counter-balance to big and small corporations alike.

I suppose I could scare up photos of the destruction, but they would prove nothing other than that the destruction occurred - you'd still have only my word for who did it.

The dead friends have been dead a long time. One was shot through the windshield of his truck as he was driving down a mountain road several years back, and went over the side of the mountain as a result, and a couple of years before that, another was shot at the front door of his home with a shotgun to the face. The UMWA contract came up for re-negotiation every 3 years or so, and then the fun would begin. We'd usually see an influx of State Troopers from across the state - one year I recall it was 600 troopers sent in for the duration, and they were never enough to keep everything under control. They tried, though.

Not much of that sort of thing goes on there any more - most of the mines have shut down now, and the UMWA lost a lot of muscle on account of that. There has been talk lately of re-opening the mines in a "new climate", but I doubt anything will come of it, what with all the carbon-crying going on.

Without them there would be no such thing as collective bargaining were a group of workers unite to protect their collective interest in wages, work hours, safety conditions and some form of representation with government. Without unions corporations would have the leeway to be much more dominating then they currently are and yes unions are losing their power.

I've never been very big on a "collective" anything. Seems a hive-mind to me, and I prefer to do my own thinking and negotiating. Corporations can be a major pain in the ass with the way they steamroll folks, but the unions are no different - they do the same thing. It's a trade of one master for another. As far as I'm concerned, they are just the "other" corporation.

Myself, if I want to "protect my wages", I make sure that what I want is in the agreement before I sign off on it. Don't need anyone else to read it and decide for me. If they reneg, there are remedies, either legal, or if that's too much bother, dissolution and go find another.

I work for what I agree to work for - and under the conditions I agree to, and if they don't live up to that, I don't work for less than I agreed to. I don't need a gang at my back to get that done. I already have my representation with government, same as everyone else, and don't need yet another layer of middle men between me and it.

If you want working conditions to go back to the age of feudalism, then by all means keep hating unions and seek to be the boss of yourself.

"Seek to be"? I AM the boss of myself. Nothing feudal about it - I'm neither serf nor manor lord. If I agree to do a job for you, that job will get done. If you don't want to meet what I ask for to do it, it may or may not get done, but either way it won't be by me.

I doubt that strategy will get you far unless of course you are not what you claim to be or you had special considerations the union boss should have considered and you got all sore that he ignored you.

I am currently a Security Contractor. That union job was several years ago, mid 90's, at a grocery store, lasted all of about 6 or 8 months. I wasn't willing to put up with the union crap for the pitiful 6 or 7 dollars an hour they "won" for me when they were "collectively bargaining" to "increase my wages", but the kicker was their political contributions out of the dues kitty. Hell with that. Dues ought to be for the benefit of union members - that's why they band together to begin with, right? If politicians want to spend union dues, let 'em form their OWN unions.

I will say this for them, though, in the short time I was there, I saw 3 people get fired for goofing off instead of working (one was actually sleeping - laid right down and SNORING ) and within 3 days the union rep had 'em right back on the job, goofing off again. One thing they DID do was make sure you kept drawing that check, regardless of performance.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie

And yet, this position to vilify unions in order to pay laborers less and take away their bargaining power, is exactly the sort of ignorance and greed consistently peddled by the Republican base.

I'm not sure just how this "taking away their bargaining power" thing works. I've never had mine taken away, union or not. If I don't like the way things are, I walk away, find greener pastures.

reply to post by nenothtu


Every industry has the potential for corruption but to take a legal right away from people in order to pay laborers less and take away bargaining power... well, why not apply this to everyone.

Lots of guilty people are offered fair trials... Maybe we need to take away the peoples' right to a fair trial?
A lot of bad people spew a lot of bad lies... Maybe we need to take away free speech?

You may feel you have the ability to pick and choose any job you want but a lot of people out there don't have the luxury. They need a paycheck and food on the table.

A union has the ability to improve the lives of all the employees for a given company. So, where you may see a bad situation and choose to cut and run... a union can go in and actually improve the situation for workers. They can help improve wages, benefits, working conditions. Could this system be abused? Sure, every system can be abused.

I don't see republicans calling for the dismantle of corporations due to rampant corporate greed, or the dismantle of military because of the abuse there. No, they are very selective in who they label as unnecessary... and it seems to always be the institution that gets in the way of their profits and power. How coincidental.