Christian Faith Needs Updated

I don't know how far to break it down. The ultimate goal is Truth.

So for many, starting truth comes from a book that they were given, that was edited several times, apparently from the original word of God. I was given it, I wanted to believe it.

Then I lived life, long enough that I needed to believe something other than word of man. Word of man if fallible. The holy books say right on the cover, Man's Version. King James Version. Blah blah blah....

So how do we back it up if we want to believe anyway? Prophecy. Make a far out claim something will happen, and it does . . . book confirmed. There will be an earthquake in the future, belief confirmed.

But honestly, creation gave us all of this information to comprehend. We have quantum mechanics, biology, chemistry, physics . . . I study mathematics, and the truth you discover and basis for logic is truly beautiful. And we are lead to believe the whole point of it all is to share bread and not throw rocks like the bad guys. Yeah, basically that's what I get from the Bible. Jesus needs to come back soon and update our text, because I can't get anything out of the Bible.

Honestly, my spiritual progression demands much more than a Holy text. I can't ignore the beauty of science, something the Bible obviously ignored because the technology was not present. That's why I can only look at elders with the look of "I hope you're right", because I can't buy it. I can't explain to them what I think. I don't have enough character space to explain it, but it comes to a point where you figure it out. You cannot explain the universe by creating a human like personality that created it. There's more to it.

I still go to church. I'm not telling my parents or wife that we're not living through a simulation that a creator has made. They buy it. What would be his point?

Heaven and Hell? If my 83.234 years hear on earth determines where I spend eternity, well so be it. People come to a revelation in life you cannot force a belief. You can't make me believe something when I search on my own. Quote all the scripture you want, I cannot buy it. I tried, but seeking truth prohibits it.

reply to post by mathematic


Rather than searching a book for the answers...

Try searching within, as that is where Christ is.

I'm not trying to sound airy fairy but your body is the temple of the spirit. Christ is not in any church, but can be found in your temple.

Try Christian mysticism rather than Christian religion.

“The Kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20,21)

Christian mysticism

reply to post by FoxfilesMulder


That is where I'm seeking. I cannot trust man. Man gave me a Bible. I cannot believe it. The Bible says it is the word of God, I'd buy it if God gave it to me an not man. Never heard of Christian mysticism, thanks for the tip. Something else to research, I appreciate your response.

reply to post by mathematic


I provided a link above to get you going and will provide another one below.

Message me if you would like any more information.

Mysticism link

To know God directly shows that mysticism is different from any passive or legalistic kind of Christianity.
It means: That while we honor the Scriptures, we want to know God directly, not just through Scripture.
While we respect our heritage of teachings about God, we want to know God directly, not through doctrines and teachings.
While we gather in communal worship, we want to know God directly, not just through the Church.

Originally posted by mathematic
reply to post by FoxfilesMulder

 

That is where I'm seeking. I cannot trust man. Man gave me a Bible. I cannot believe it. The Bible says it is the word of God, I'd buy it if God gave it to me an not man. Never heard of Christian mysticism, thanks for the tip. Something else to research, I appreciate your response.

Do you think if God exists he would give us a book that would only condemn us to hell? When I ever start doubting my faith I soon discovered it was me that had the problem and was not doing what I should be.
A life following Christ the way he should be followed will lead to suffering along the way.
Suffering makes us stronger.
When we stop moving closer to God we start moving backwards. The journey is never over. Get back on the horse and pray for answers with all your heart.
If that is what your heart desires then it will be given to you.

reply to post by mathematic


If you hold theology as a person holds their pride, then your theology will fail you. Approach it as a child first. In other words, when you read the Bible, allow it to change you and don't expect it to conform to your theology. This is humility and the very thing that God expects from us as we grow in our faith. Also, faith is not something you find. Faith is something developed in you by God. Faith is His work in you and not your work for Him.

As for the quantum physics trumping our description of God, consider this. LINK Feel free to explore other parts of my blog. I do not want to say I hold truth, but the blog reflects my own search. You sound very similar to me a few years ago. God is faithful and if you follow my suggestions above, this allows God to work with your heart and mind. The flaming sword is the consuming fire of God that protects the tree of life. If pride is removed, the flaming sword cuts away our error and replaces it with the light of truth.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I think I follow your philosophy. I will follow your blog. Thank you.

reply to post by mathematic


It is being updated as we speak my friend.

Perhaps you have not been listening, perhaps you have not seen?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


IAMIAM we spoke before. You present yourself as an enlightened individual. I want that. Where are these updates coming in? My church, says the SAME THING every week, changing the reading and gospel, but all a repeat of something before. The sermon comes across as a repeat.

They keep talking about sowing oats and breaking bread. I can sort of relate that to modern day, but really can you still buy all that?

My struggle comes with the infinitely seeming cosmos that apparently came from one beginning. We are a minute infinitesimally small portion of that. It's not mentioned in the Bible. Obviously man did not know of it, but God did. Why do you choose to take what man gave you as word of God and take it to heart? I want to know. I need clarification. I want that, but I cannot accept it.

Originally posted by mathematic
IAMIAM we spoke before. You present yourself as an enlightened individual.

I am no more enlightened than you my friend.

Originally posted by mathematic
I want that. Where are these updates coming in? My church, says the SAME THING every week, changing the reading and gospel, but all a repeat of something before. The sermon comes across as a repeat.

They are coming in through you. You question and therefore will arrive at an answer. That is your update. The church may not be receiving the same update as you.

Originally posted by mathematicThey keep talking about sowing oats and breaking bread. I can sort of relate that to modern day, but really can you still buy all that?

It is because they talk, that others are listening elsewhere. Do not talk, do.

Originally posted by mathematic
My struggle comes with the infinitely seeming cosmos that apparently came from one beginning. We are a minute infinitesimally small portion of that. It's not mentioned in the Bible. Obviously man did not know of it, but God did.

All that you perceive is painted for you to see and played for you to hear in your mind. No light nor sound enters the brain. All that you are is within yourself, but you are not the painter nor the musician. You are the observer.

Originally posted by mathematic
Why do you choose to take what man gave you as word of God and take it to heart? I want to know. I need clarification. I want that, but I cannot accept it.

Trust no man for they are liars my friend. Even I am a liar if you do not reach this understanding on your own. Truth must come from within, and these bread crumbs are nothing but morsels left along my travels.

If you think I am enlightened my friend, it is not my doing. I neither reasoned my conclusions, sought them in written knowledge, nor asked for them of God. They came from within me from a place I do not know, but understand I am returning to at the end of my days.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


How are you so confident in what it all means? That's awesome man, you share love and peace in all your messages. But I think it has to be a hunch, and if not how do you know?

I love Jesus. Whether he lived or not. Whether he did what he did or not. His message, it would dissolve world tensions. I like learning about Christ. The whole idea of believe it or suffer in hell acts more of a deterrent, because I can only trace it to the root of man. I cannot trust man.

I want to make my mind right. How did you do it? I keep searching, and the more I search the less human like I make my creator. My creator has created much more than the Bible acknowledges, and my mind requires my faith to fill the gaps. I need truth. IAMIAM you portray truth, how did you find it? Whether it's the same or not, you found it. Is it based on faith, or did you find something? I need a truth I can take from the top, and break it down to a point based on truth. I cannot accept man's word passed to me as truth (King James Version).

I believe you find it within. Your notes drop me hints, I can see where you are leading me. I am already there though. How have you convinced yourself?

On top of all this, I cannot believe our creator demands us to repeat the same thing every Sunday. Yeah we say the Apostle's or Nicene Creed, the Lord's prayer, the prayer that lists the same people every week for months on end . . .

These people named in this prayer do not get better, they're old and they die. We say ok, they died and now they are in heaven. Really? What is heaven anyway?

If I went to heaven, and had to sing church songs and eat church food (ham and green beans) all the time, that would suck. It's not heaven. The bad things we do on earth (sex, gamble, booze) would be more of a heaven like experience than that.

My idea of heaven is doing the things the Bible does condone. If I went to heaven and had to do all that church BS for eternity, that would be hell. I cannot buy into Christianity anymore. I love Jesus. I don't know whether he did what he did or not, but I received his message. I'm living a contradiction.

Originally posted by FoxfilesMulder
reply to post by mathematic

 

Rather than searching a book for the answers...

Try searching within, as that is where Christ is.

I'm not trying to sound airy fairy but your body is the temple of the spirit. Christ is not in any church, but can be found in your temple.

Try Christian mysticism rather than Christian religion.

“The Kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:20,21)

Christian mysticism

edit on 23-9-2011 by FoxfilesMulder because: (no reason given)

Any 'mysticism' with a signature is tainted and only leads to the same result as all other self-reinforcing religionism. You come back with what you started with.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


You wrote:

["If you hold theology as a person holds their pride, then your theology will fail you. Approach it as a child first. In other words, when you read the Bible, allow it to change you and don't expect it to conform to your theology"]

What you are presenting is a perfect submissive slave-philosophy.

But why not become a pastafarian instead? Somewhere along the road a choice is made, unless one chooses to believe in the calvinist version of solipsism.

As to your 'quantum-religion'....it's still as invalid as when you umpteenth posts back first presented it.

Originally posted by mathematic
On top of all this, I cannot believe our creator demands us to repeat the same thing every Sunday. Yeah we say the Apostle's or Nicene Creed, the Lord's prayer, the prayer that lists the same people every week for months on end . . .

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Originally posted by mathematic
These people named in this prayer do not get better, they're old and they die. We say ok, they died and now they are in heaven. Really? What is heaven anyway?

Heaven is right here laid out upon the earth. Men do not see it. Judgement blocks their view.

Originally posted by mathematic
If I went to heaven, and had to sing church songs and eat church food (ham and green beans) all the time, that would suck. It's not heaven. The bad things we do on earth (sex, gamble, booze) would be more of a heaven like experience than that.

What would you do in Heaven? Do it!

Originally posted by mathematic
My idea of heaven is doing the things the Bible does condone. If I went to heaven and had to do all that church BS for eternity, that would be hell. I cannot buy into Christianity anymore. I love Jesus. I don't know whether he did what he did or not, but I received his message. I'm living a contradiction.

Churches are funeral parlors where the dead mourn the death of Christ.

Go OUT into the world and LIVE for Christ lives within you.

I am not your teacher my friend. Your teacher is within you. What he has in store for you may not be what he has in store for me. Be you how he teaches you to be you, and I will love you for who you are.

We are just a couple of kids just trying to save each other. Wait till you see it in COLOR!

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by mathematic


I would put my money on IAMIAM any old time.

You see, there IS such an 'inner' place as he writes about, and it has nothing to do with doctrines, methods, logic proofs (which can be useful in mundane existence though), expectations or whatever.

If you want some reassurance so as not to waste your time hunting swamplights, this 'inner' place pops up regularly everywhere, in all contexts (except circular expectation-contexts) and with the only condition that you can make so much inner silence, that you can 'hear' it (or whatever).

And personally I don't give a fig about whether this is 'divine', an unknown cosmic force or some personal brain-chemistry on my part. Being there is being there. And it's not really 'preachable', as the path is unique for every individual....even to the point, where mentioning its existence is kind of purposeless.

Being so individual and unique it can never be 'holier than you', and talking about it is like saying: "What a nice morning" in a non-committal way.

Originally posted by mathematic I want to know. I need clarification. I want that, but I cannot accept it.

I cannot leave you wanting my friend. What I tell you, do not attribute to the flesh you see before you, but to the holy spirit, the spirit of life within you.

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

These are Christ's last words to his disciples before his execution. Notice he is telling them very clearly that he is NOT going to come back in the flesh. Not EVER.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

The spirit of life is the spirit of God. To know God is to see him in everyone. Those who cannot are deceived by their own judgement. Do NOT Judge, but love!

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Men pray to God in hopes they will receive. I answer prayers of all those the father sends me, as Christ would do.

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Love one another. That is all.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Look not at the flesh for it perishes. Look at the life for it is eternal.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Doing what Christ said to do is the salvation of the world.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. 31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

How do I know who I am? I am the Son of Man, because I see the Son of Man in all others. The world is my reflection, so to am I yours. If you see truth, then the truth is within you.

Judge not, love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


You are a calm cool dude. I respect it, I love it, I want to live it. Yet you seek truth from within, and back it up with Bible verses. I'm not saying the Bible is not Truth, but it's quite obvious that I'm not saying that it is.

IAMIAM, I need your mindset to fight this struggle we call life.

reply to post by bogomil


bogomil, you are on the same quest. I appreciate your response.

Originally posted by mathematic
IAMIAM, I need your mindset to fight this struggle we call life.

You want my mind set? Then get comfortable with not knowing.

That is my secret. I do not know.

Thus, I do not have a war going on inside me over what is right or wrong. I do what my conscience, my connection to God tells me to do.

I am liberated from the judgement of the world, because I do not know.

In whom do you put your trust?

Mine is in the giver of life, the taker of life, the knower of all things.

I am stupid before this world, and I am cool with that.
I believe everyone else is just as stupid, but they fear not knowing.

With Love,

Your Brother