Ahmadinejad speaking at the UN - Is he going to declare war?

reply to post by insaan


well then it seems to me these claims are against ats rules. why are they allowed to continue? if i never produce proof or a link i am kicked off thread. these are lies if no proof and ats should treat it as such.

reply to post by Xeven


I do not believe russia is off the cliff. last time i checked the warhawks were clamoring for missiles to be brought on syria, and then i heard russia moved in an provided their friend syria with a few missiles and support. well why has the crap against syria all of a sudden went quiet? wouldnt have anything to do with russia would it? or did the syrian regime decide to play nice out of fear of the west? i believe it is because the warhawks dont believe in suicide but rather being bullies! and yes a U.S., Russian war(imo) is suicide. for the whole world. the only possible outcome is nuclear winter for the whole world for 100's of years.


I do agree with most of what you said tho in an economic stand point. but i also feel russia is very relevant.

as i see it we need russia an china just like they need us. wuthout all of us cancelling each other out, one of us surely would run amok on the world. leaders are crazy like that.

Ahmadinejad is a very silly cowardly man, he's just spouting more hate fueled propaganda in order to get the western govs to attack his country, so they can then play the 'we are being picked on card', it's a shame the Iranian people aren't allowed to walk out en-mass when he opens his gob, they are just as sick of the man and the religious nutters above him as the rest of the planet are.

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee

shame the Iranian people aren't allowed to walk out en-mass when he opens his gob, they are just as sick of the man and the religious nutters above him as the rest of the planet are.

proof and links or it is just your opinion or lies !

reply to post by letscit


It's an opinion, which I'm allowed to have, unlike in Iran, however my friend visited Iran during the last US elections and all of the locals he spoke to wanted McCain to win as they they thought a Republican was more likely to bomb Iran, he and his girlfriend were also detained by the authorities, and treated pretty poorly and with much suspicion, because they (the Iranian authorities) thought his girfriend was an Iranian trying to escape to the West, after they had had their passports stolen, she was actually French, but has very dark skin. They went to Iran to see if all the reports about the country from major News outlets were true, he said he believed that the majority of the people were friendly and peaceful, not like the pictures of people banging their heads hysterically in the streets, but the reports on how their government behaves is pretty accurate. The government uses strong hate led speeches, anti western sentiment, strong crackdowns and religious paranoia, to keep people in line, and deflect away from it's own failings. They also Jam the BBC Persian Network, so that there is no opposing view or opinion. Their English media mouthpiece, Press TV, is far from objective in it's reporting. Another common misconception was the Iranian people didn't blame the West for the sanctions, they blamed there government for being stubborn and un-diplomatic.

reply to post by Meekbot2000

Accused us of war mongering and trying to control the world for its own financial gain

Well he was right about that... What right does the US have to sanction Iran... where is the evidence Iran is developing nuclear weapons? Oh yeah there is none. And wait, the rest of the world is aloud Nuclear power but Iran is not? What kind of crap is that...

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
reply to post by letscit

 

The government uses strong hate led speeches, anti western sentiment, strong crackdowns and religious paranoia, to keep people in line, and deflect away from it's own failings. They also Jam the BBC Persian Network, so that there is no opposing view or opinion.

Sounds exactly like the US and UK government.

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
reply to post by letscit

 

Another common misconception was the Iranian people didn't blame the West for the sanctions, they blamed there government for being stubborn and un-diplomatic.

Iran have tried to negotiate with the UN a number of times but there is not much they can do when its clear the US backed by israel wants to clearly invade them and start WW3.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Yip, I've got to agree with you there

Whatever faults the Iranian Gov has, those need to be dealt with by Iranians possibly in conjunction with neighbouring regions, not US or NATO.

I don't think that any country should have nukes but Iran is entitled to defend itself.

The war rhetoric in US and here is predictable and boring. If they set out on another murderous rampage, I will never stop campaigning against such action. I am sick of it.

TRUTH is all I seek, Love is my motivation, REASON is my method and PEACE is my goal.

Namaste

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Don't get me wrong here, I don't support the sabre rattling on either side, I have no love for war, and think the idea of bombing Iran is completely wrong. I'm just pointing out that there are no good or bad guys in this. All the Governments involved in this round of chest beating, UK, Israel, US or Iranian, are all despicable, Irans President is an idiot and talks bollox on a daily basis, and that can be said for most politicians :-).

There are many people on this website that defend Iran and portray them as a victim, but we all know that they are far from victims, the Regime might get taken more seriously if they didn't hate fuelled rhetoric at any given opportunity. Whether you like it or not Iran has an oppressive regime, the UK Gov may not like Press TV, and would prefer it to be off the air, but doesn't stop it broadcasting, however with it's flagrant disregard for broadcasting standards it won't be long before it gives itself enough rope to hang itself with. :-)

I'm not saying it's up to The West to stop Iran, far from it, I think we should back off and try to reopen a dialogue with them. I just thought I'd point out and share my friends experiences in the Islamic Republic, the everyday people there are tired and sick of that regime and would like to see it gone, how they go about that is a matter for them to decide, unfortunately they don't seem to get much choice in the matter.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Meekbot2000

 

Accused us of war mongering and trying to control the world for its own financial gain

Well he was right about that... What right does the US have to sanction Iran... where is the evidence Iran is developing nuclear weapons? Oh yeah there is none. And wait, the rest of the world is aloud Nuclear power but Iran is not? What kind of crap is that...

The same kind of crap the prevents pedophiles from working in day cares or from drug addicts from working in Pharmacies or people murderers from possessing weapons!
When a country continually threatens another culture and the world that they want to bring the 12th imam back by means of a world war, well, then yes, we’d prefer them starting a war that does not entail weapons that could destroy the world.

reply to post by Bearack


The only people who want to start world war 3 are the Zionists who run Israel and america. Iran has not made any threats to destroy another country, they have simply stated they will defend them selvs and will not give into submission to the United States.

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee


The west has an agenda to take over the whole of the middle east. Iran's "regime" has nothing to do with the west just like Iran has nothing to do with the west's "regime". The west is the oppressor here and Iran are the victim. The UN had absolutely no right to sanction them, and that is an act of war by it self. There have been many lies told about Ahmadinejad like how he apparently said in a speech that he wishes to destroy Israel, but this is a complete Lie! He didn't say that at all, the zionist media simply mistranslated what he said to rally support for another war. Just like the unjust invasion of Iraq and Libya. We have no right to dictate how Iran runs there country. I am not saying I support Islamic Law, but I am against bulleys and thats exactly what we are.

Ummmm what do you mean? The Iranian people are NOT happy with their regime. Oh you belive the interviews just like the ones of the North Koreans after Kim Jongs death? LMAO. Oops, my bad...they dont interview folks in Iran.

Originally posted by letscit
reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee

 

shame the Iranian people aren't allowed to walk out en-mass when he opens his gob, they are just as sick of the man and the religious nutters above him as the rest of the planet are.

proof and links or it is just your opinion or lies !

I think if the Iranian Leader was to declare WAR at the U.N.....it would be like a good joke at a comedy club...everyone would break into laughter! LOL! The funniest part about this is that the majority of Iranians...who hate their goverment and Religious enforcement of laws like the stoneage...while the youth communicates on their phones and computers using social networks....would probably be on the ground calling in the Air Strikes on their own Goverment Offices.

The U.S. has made mistakes in the past...especially pertaining to the SHAH....but past is past and the youth longs for peace and democracy...I have seen this.

But the laugh meter is off the chart on this topics question....Iran Declaring War? LOL! Too Much!

I have tried to have conversations with people who Bluster about how Iran is powerful and all that....powerful to smack around and torture a bunch of KIDS! But if Iran DARES an attempt to close the straight....The U.S. Fifth Fleet will OBLITERATE Irans Navy, Airforce and all costal military targets. Now the Fifth Fleet could very easily penetrate deep into Iran but they would stop at what I have said.

A single U.S. Carrier group is more powerful than all but 7 nations full military capacities and that is just conventional arms. If one takes into account the Fifth Fleets Nuclear capabilities from carrier based delivery as well as the multiple Subs that are also Nuclear capable....the Fifth Fleet jumps in number to the Worlds 5th most powerful military entity.

Remember....the Fifth Fleet is just ONE U.S. Nuclear Carrier Battle Groups....the U.S. has MANY, MANY MORE! LOL! IRAN! Declaring WAR! LOL! a joke indeed! Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
The U.S. has made mistakes in the past...especially pertaining to the SHAH....but past is past and the youth longs for peace and democracy...I have seen this.

Mistakes? They were pre-determined. There are no such thing as mistakes with international incidents like this. The past is the past?
The US justice system doesn't forgive murderers (i hope), or more ironically, terrorists - so why should they be forgiven for implementing reign into a foreign country to suit their economic agenda?
I mean, americans don't forgive the middle east for the apparent attack on the trade centres - which using your logic, happened a whole 11 years ago and should be forgotten.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Now the Fifth Fleet could very easily penetrate deep into Iran but they would stop at what I have said.

hahah now that's funny! they would stop?! I think we have the next us secretary of defence here. Why on earth would they stop, just because? Supposedly, a close on the straight brought an iranian defeat - they have given the US every excuse in the world to attack and invade.
The US tore apart afghanistan in search of bin-laden. Then they brought the war to iraq, executed a leader for "crimes against humanity" which was above and beyond their original goal to find "bin laden" (supposedly the culprit).
Actually, while i'm on the topic - when bin laden was killed last year, and the "past is the past", why did the americans justify their presence in the middle east with an eventual victory?
They were determined. Like the Iranians! They're determined!

But as i was saying, you're implying the US would just "stop" after Iran provided them with an excuse to attack and invade? please.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
A single U.S. Carrier group is more powerful than all but 7 nations full military capacities

Which 7 nations? This is very important as you've used the number 7 to imply a large amount - but which nations are they? third world nations... what...?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
as well as the multiple Subs that are also Nuclear capable....

And the americans don't want Iran to have nuclear capabilities out of fear for non-peaceful means? Americans ARE their own worst enemies.
It's words like this that give iran the international RIGHT to have a nuclear arsenal. Their intentions may be different from the americans - but who's to say america deserves that might any more than the iranians - or anyone else for that matter.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Remember....the Fifth Fleet is just ONE U.S. Nuclear Carrier Battle Groups....the U.S. has MANY, MANY MORE! LOL! IRAN! Declaring WAR! LOL! a joke indeed!

Try and show a bit of humility mate. You're using facts that a lot of americans know about their own military. Have you seen iran's? Furthermore, have you seen an actual international conflict? Iran wouldn't just be on their own if they waged war. Perhaps they could have allies that rank the world's 4th most powerful military entity? But that's just speculation.
You don't truly know what they're capable of as you're source of information is very restricted to american facts.

reply to post by xxdaniel21

OK...XX21....to answer the 7 county questions....the parameters are a Rogue U.S. Carrier Battle Group and the 7 countries that would have a greater military capacity....this does not take into account if a BOOMER SUB such as the OHIO class was acompanying the group...if so....it shoots up to number 3 since one TRIDENT EQUIPT SUB has incredible destructive power. But say this group was rogue and these would be the countries in order...that would have greater military power...not because of tech....but because this Carrier group would not be re-equipt with munitions as if it was....there would be only two possible countries that could destroy it. In order.....1. the United States...2.Russia...3. Canada...because although most people are not aware...Canada is part of the North American Defense and Military...4. China...5. United Kingdom...6. India...7. France.

#6 and #7 are a stretch. Make no mistake though....one U.S. Carrier Group with acccompanying Subs and Aegis Class Cruisers equipt with the newly redesigned SM-3 Missile...which is now not only an Anti-Aircraft Missle but an ABM and Satellite Killer as well....would cause Massive devestation on any country if it ever went rouge.

As far as why the Fifth Fleet would only destroy the entire Iranian Navy as well as Airforce as well as costal installations....the U.S. would need to secure all Iranian Nuclear sites using thousands of Special Forces and Airborne Rangers...to elliminate a Iranian Counter Attack without Killing a population where 90% are Pro-Democracy....the U.S. would use for the first time Dropped by B-2 as well as F-22...Small Non-Nuclear Highly Advanced and Powerful EMP devices. These would render any Counter Attack innert.

The Idea is not to hurt the majority of a population that is being help prisoner by 10% of the Old Religious Guard...but destroy Irans ability to wage war as well as secure all Iranian Nuclear Sites....and we know where thy all are...this means ISRAEL is forbidden to participate as to bomb Nuclear Sites would make the whole region Radioactive. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I don't want this to evolve into an argument, so bear with me - but you've re-iterated america's might, and how america would attack iran as far as strategy is involved.
Your post is well thought out, but it still leaves the question of what iran has to account for in terms of military power. A lot of people seem to think america can easily overpower a nation "in a day's work", but remember, it took them 10 years to get any sort of control on iraq. And even then, their achievements are questionable in the middle east.

Looking in hindsight now, it's easy to say "we've been there done that, we can do it again tomorrow", but iran has a longer, richer history. Whether or not their military has stayed consistent throughout the past century is not relevant.
Where america engages in the "shock and awe" tactic, or going into a nation gun's blazing - iran uses the economic stranglehold tactic (ceasing oil exports) that strikes a similar technique to that which the united states used against japan during the second world war! Specifically speaking, July 1941, when the US was a neutral state!!
Therefore, to pre-emptively cut off oil supplies is not exactly unfamiliar territory for the united states - which is what iran is threatening, and america doesn't want to happen

Also, i'm curious as to why you've quoted america's nuclear arsenal (offensive), when clearly the united states don't want iran to have nuclear capabilities for this very reason.

One could say that iran is led by an islamic regime that's planned to wipe-out israel for some time, but then one could say that america is led by a christian system that's exploited nations for their resources, using their vast amount of allied bases placed throughout the world as a measure of strength.

Thanks for the reply mate! Don't think i'm attacking ya haha, it's all good discussion.

reply to post by xxdaniel21

It's OK...that is what this discussion is for. The U.S. is not interested in attacking a country that has a population that could very soon be a Democracy. But certain events could push the U.S. into action as the U.S. does not in any way want Israel bombing Iranian Nuclear sites and spreading Radiation all over the Middle East...thus...either Iran comes to it's senses and allows inspectors back in or the U.S. waits for inevitable regime change.

If Iran does try to block the STRAIT or declares publicly it has a NUKE whether true or not...the U.S. will have to go in. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Do you reckon that the US would be so lenient and helpful towards iran given their past relationship over the last 50 years?
From what i'm hearing - not only on MSM, but also on the net and ATS, the united states seems to have this interest in israel's welfare when israel apparently "doesn't need help". Other than israel's welfare, the only other reason would be policing their nuclear program.
Keep in mind none of these are affecting the united states as a nation, so any move into iran would be seen as an act of hostility - whichever way you look at it. Unless they somehow twist it to say they are protecting the united states economically - through iran's oil exports, which still doesn't make sense seeing they are imposing sanctions on iran's major financial institutions anyway. They are provoking an unnecessary threat.

What if they allow inspectors in? What would they "deem" unsuitable for Iran to have control of (in regards to nuclear power)?? How would they say what america can control and an islamic "regime" can't?
They need to stop this world police attitude they have. So what if iran builds a nuclear program for offensive purposes? I know they are big words, but what could the united states honestly do? Annhilate them just in case?
I doubt Iran would ever attack america, but if they did - then it would make sense for the united states to retaliate. And they would come on them like a pile of bricks if that were to happen.

Seriously - if Iran were to genuinely attack the united states, i'm sure the white house would have every citizen's support to fight back.

Why doesn't the US station it's troops in russia? or china? the bigger guys?

I'm just thinking there's a motive here for the US besides instilling democracy into iran. I mean they've nearly finished in iraq, under the basis of maintaining peace - yet they're keen to run and do the same to another nation?

If the US eventually saw the light and elected a real president, then it would make sense to say they have an international duty of care. But then again, there wouldn't be any reason to be in the middle east at all - ever.

reply to post by xxdaniel21

XX21....you seem to have a good head on your sholders so I want to let you know a appreciate looking at all angles and perspectives of all sides. But in the end....there is only ONE REALITY. That reality is based on causality which if you have ever watched the second Martix Movie....will explain it all very specifically.

This whole problem and issue is CAUSE AND EFFECT....we could go into the long history that drives some effects but we will start....the day that the U.S. pressed for tough sanctions on Iran as a way to force Iran to allow back in Nuclear Inspectors into all of Irans Nuclear Facilities including the secret ones we know of and Iran has admitted to 2 of these but not all of them.
These sanctions if placed into effect will really hurt Iran...and Iran knows this...so they made a mistake...they DIRECTLY CHALLENGED THE UNITED STATES even though the U.S. does not buy oil from Iran....China does and alot of other countries. The challenge was...WE...IE....IRAN...can easily close down the STRAIT OF HORMUZ...where over 40% of the Worlds supply of Oil is shipped through....including IRANS OWN OIL! Then they put on a Naval Puppet Show as Irans green painted Navy floated around like a bunch of targets in close grouping for the sake of PHOTO OP'S for the Worlds Media.
THEN...as if this was not BAD ENOUGH...some Iranian Military spokes person talked about the increace of built Centrafuges as well as Irans advancing tech. in their ICBM program. I don't think it was possible to do or say anything that could have been either stupider or worse other than an actual attack. LUNACY WAS THE WORD OF THE DAY! Add all of this atop statements by Irans President to wipe Israel off the map and you get one REALLY PISSED OFF SUPER POWER! Iran militarily even with a few Nukes is no challenge to the U.S. Military...but they could possibly temp. block the strait for a day....even 24 hours would drive Oil prices through the roof. Plus...Israel is pissed off because they have been TOLD AND FORBIDDEN to bomb Iranian Nuclear sites...so Israel is freeking out all the while the U.S....knowing that a Full Scale Military Invasion of Iran would kill alot of people...people who will soon be Democratic in Government and could be allies...but that is 12 to 18 months away so here we are....

The U.S. will only attack if Iran either Closes the Strait, Declares it has Nuclear Weapons....true or not....or starts a MAJOR CRACKDOWN on Pro-Democracy Groups who the CIA is working with VERY CLOSELY! The U.S. PLAN is to save as many lives as possible. I don't know about you...but if I had an 18 year old son on one of those old Iranian Naval Ships floundering around in the Persian Gulf...I would be SCARED TO DEATH FOR HIM! One good piece of news is that through DIA to Iranian Airforce covert contacts...Irans Airforce might take off but land in another country....sort of like what the Iraqui Airforce did rather than being shot down 500 ft above the runway. And REMEMBER THIS....70% of IRANS POPULATION IS UNDER 30 YEARS OLD! Imagine that!
70% of all the people in Iran are a bunch of KIDS....KIDS with TWITTER and SMART PHONES and know how to get around RELIGIOUS implemented Internet Blocking. These KIDS want a FREE FUTURE...the U.S. Military does not want to kill these kids.

There is several plans based on what the IRANIAN RELIGIOUS LEADERSHIP DO....we will let them either draw down and hopefully prevent alot of death...but if they decide...as they have many times before....that they are more important than the people they rule....we have the plan to destroy the Iranian Navy and Airforce...unless we get real lucky and the DIA has convinced them not to fight a fight that they have ZERO CHANCE of winning.

Best case scenario....Iranian Pro-Democracy Youth Groups with the help of the Military....seize power from the Old Religious Guard. This may happen if Iran declares WAR on the United States...anyone in their RIGHT MIND who is in the Iranian Military....would use that as an oppertunity to help the Pro-Democracy Movement seize power because if you are in a Leadership Capacity in any of the Iranian Military Branches....a Declaration of WAR for you and your soldiers, airmen or sailors....is a DEATH SENTENCE! The CIA, the DIA as well as intelligence agencies from other countries are all working on this. IRAN could save face and say it took back control of it's country from LUNATICS. The Nuclear Program would be dismantled save for Medical Research and Iran could even keep it's Nuclear reactor if used peacefuly. Split Infinity