Psychologists explain why some people can't accept alternate conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.

Originally posted by bicyclesophie
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Its not a viewpoint. There over 1250 experts, from scientists, to architects, pilots and even the firefighters who were there, who state that the official "story" could not have happened. This is not a viewpoint. This is science, expert witness, and eye witness. The video does not state that there is something wrong with people who swallow the official version, it pinpoints the reasons why anyone would choose to deny an issue or event that challenges their way of looking at the world, and their place in it. People do this on small scales with small issues as well. It is not a pathology, it is psychology.

You know what would be cool? If some of the firefighters, pilots, scientists, and architects came here and stuff. Then, we could see if they are blowing hot air, or if they are just not seeing the facts straight.

It would be especially good to hear from these firefighters from Ground Zero who would have first-hand accounts, right? I mean, they have to be a part of the Truth Movement. It can't be too hard to get them to come here, get verified by the staff, and post their experiences.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

Regardless about what 9/11 conspiracy theorists say, they already lost the overall argument. Since the official public story is 'on record', without an official effort for an override, the original events we all witnessed on tv and radio will continue to hold truth. We were attacked by terrorists on 9/11. Nothing will officially change that. Thank god.

Good luck on removing the official story from record.

It will never-ever happen.

edit on 9/22/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

So the official LIE is now etched in stone, and at the same time you ignore the body of evidence. You cant back up your belief in the official story in your own words and make the case yourself simply because you fail to understand the science of 911? You do not strike me as a free thinking person. So basically to you the fabric of reality is based on whatever was conjured up in the commission report? Whatever was said on the news that day before anyone knew what was really going on or knew who exactly did it.. before it was even supposedly investigated? Instantly there is a list of Hijakers within a couple hours released, to this day the video footage of the pentagon is classified yet they drop a list of Hijackers instantly? Yet It was never investigated, Bush and Cheney blocked an investigation of course. The official explanation is an EXCUSE not an explanation. You believe whatever you are told simply in that you were taught who to listen to without question.

OK so if i get a job at lets say FOX news or MSNBC and report the sky is falling then it must be true. It can not be reversed or proven to be bad intel hence it is real to you. The weapons of mass destruction must still exist in Iraq, of course it can not be reversed even after the fact there were no WMD's in Iraq after all this was admitted to be orchestrated by bad intel "CIA" who knew? Really was Dick Cheyney's idea.. Your fail at logic is example of the kind of person that is easily controlled and influenced. Join me in reality, it is not all sun shine and rainbows but at least i know where i stand.




Reality check

Link: The Truther Timeline

According to an Angus Reid Public Opinion survey, 12 percent disagree with the official story of 9/11 as presented by the 9/11 Commission. An additional 22 percent are undecided, and 14 percent say they find claims that the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled demolition credible.

Roughly 14% of the population 'definitively believes' the 9/11 conspiracy theories are true. If we go by the film provided by the original poster, 85% of the population is in some sort of denial.

Wow! 14% of the population is special? Load of crap.

Nothing will change the credibility behind the official public story. Nothing.

As more and more time passed, less and less people will think a conspiracy occurred.

Thank god!

Originally posted by Section31
Link: The Truther Timeline

According to an Angus Reid Public Opinion survey, 12 percent disagree with the official story of 9/11 as presented by the 9/11 Commission. An additional 22 percent are undecided, and 14 percent say they find claims that the World Trade Center was brought down by controlled demolition credible.

Roughly 14% of the population believes the 9/11 conspiracy theories are true. If we go by the film provided by the original poster, 85% of the population is in some sort of denial.

Wow! 14% of the population is special? Load of crap.

Nothing will change the credibility behind the official public story. Nothing.

As more and more time passed, less and less people will think a conspiracy occurred.

edit on 9/22/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

That 85% many of them do not believe the official story, that said most people don't buy the Commission Report propaganda. What does this mean? It means we know we are being lied to... reason being?

Think about it

reply to post by Unknown Soldier

You twisted the facts.

Just like a conspiracy theorist.

Good for you.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
That 85% many of them do not believe the official story, that said most people don't buy the Commission Report propaganda. What does this mean? It means we know we are being lied to... reason being?

Think about it

The graph says that 85% of the population believes in the official 'public' story.

You just got caught in a lie. Your credibility as a debater is gone.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

You twisted the facts.

Just like a conspiracy theorist.

Good for you.

edit on 9/22/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

Point out where i twisted the facts?

tic toc

Conspiracy theorist: a stereo type

The body of free thinking independent people, individuals who analyze and investigate the evidence. Even science is based on mostly theory, nothing is etched in stone. Science is constantly being proven wrong every day, always growing and evolving. The science of 911 does not support the official story "lie" this i can prove to you until blue in the face. Do you have anything to bring to the table?

facts? or more labels?

reply to post by Unknown Soldier

You twisted the truth.

See the last line of the post above your last one for why.

reply to post by Section31



Where did you get that statistic? That is not what i have read. Polls vary, depends where you poll and who. Your straw man argument is lulzy. More polls, enjoy!

www.globalresearch.ca...

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2~4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure).

www.ldsfreedomforum.com...
socioecohistory.wordpress.com...
www.911truth.org...
www.prisonplanet.com...


Lie? Troll more, attack my character since you cant attack the data. I know what your MO is, not about truth.

CIA Threatens 9/11 Researchers After Discovery Of Cover Up Details

The CIA has issued legal threats against two film producers who have discovered intimate details of a cover up regarding the intelligence agency and two of the purported 9/11 hijackers.

www.infowars.com...

www.youtube.com...

Cat is out the bag, has been for a long time

How many people believe 9/11 was an inside job? Below are results of 8 polls by Zogby, Scripps, Angus Reid, 911Inquiry.Org and some non-scientific polls also.

Scientific Polls:

CBS/Angus Reid, Oct 2006
58% say that gov't officials are "lying" in the 9/11 Commission Report - only 16% say they are telling the truth when asked the question "When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?"
(LIHOP theory)
Link: www.angus-reid.com...

ZOGBY, Feb 2006
49.3% of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act".
(LIHOP theory)
Link: www.zogby.com...

SCRIPPS/HOWARD, July 2006
36% of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."
(Covers both LIHOP and MIHOP theories)
Link: www.scrippsnews.com...

911INQUIRY.ORG, May 2004
63% of Canadians agreed that "Individuals within the U.S. Government including the White House had prior knowledge of the plans for the events of September 11th, and failed to take appropriate action to stop them". Additionally, 16% of Canadians believe that individuals within the U.S. Government were involved in the planning and execution of the events of September 11th. (47% LIHOP, 16% MIHOP, 63% combined)
Link: www.911inquiry.org...

Non-Scientific Polls:

MSNBC, Sept 2006 up to present (Oct 2007)
"Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11?"
(Covers both LIHOP and MIHOP theories)
YES: 67%
link: www.msnbc.msn.com...

CNN, Nov 2004
"Do you believe there is a US government cover up surrouning 911?"
(Question is too vague to specify LIHOP or MIHOP - could be interpreted as a coverup of incompetence only)
YES: 89%
Link: www.infowars.com...

COLBERT NATION, June 2006
"Was 9/11 an inside job?" (MIHOP)
YES: 66%


AM 640 Radio Toronto, August 2006
"Was 9/11 an inside job?" (MIHOP)
YES: 85%
Link: 640toronto.com...

We cannot have liberty without Truth.
It really amazes me that there are long time ATS members in here who still believe in the OS of 911. From my years of research on 911, people who do not believe in the evidences that 911 was an inside job eventually will when more of the US population begins to accept the fact that the government lied to us and are hiding the Truth. Those that cannot conceive the idea that a small fraction of powerful politicians in the Bush administration and Pentagon officials pulled off the greatest deception in the world, are completely in “denial” or do not want to know the truth, and discussing 911 with them is the same as having a discussion with a role of toilet paper.

Originally posted by Section31

9/11 theorists created this massive conspiracy, for they fear what the event actually symbolizes. Lack of security and control in a free and open society lead to a terrorist attack. What the hell do you folks think triggered the fall of the Roman Empire? Once 9/11 conspiracy theorists start waking up, we can make some real changes to our overall security.

If 9/11 theorists created this massive conspiracy, they had abundant help from the authorities who recklessly allowed the spoliation of the WTC fire scene, failed to consider alternative collapse scenarios, and produced no definitive finding of cause.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Did you even watch the video?

sure did.......and I think its pretty underhanded to tell people there is something wrong with them just because they might not agree on a certain viewpoint.......

Even though I disagree with your viewpoint I absolutely agree with your logic. Nothing like a swift kick to the underside to make your opinion less dignified. BTW I do believe in a conspiracy theory, and understand the psychology behind denial. However, there must be a more effective way to communicate through facts whether than undermining your opponents argument by suggesting flaws in our human nature are at fault. Even though I disagree with your explanation I still feel your pain. It's no different than when someone who believes the government was not involved calls other examiners of the data 'conspiracy theorists' and irrational.

Cheers to your comment on the video.

reply to post by newcovenant


I believe in the same thing, inside government factions who are not accountable to no one. Yet they're behind the scenes controlling policy and planning criminal activities to change the course of America and the rest of the world.

Originally posted by impressme
We cannot have liberty without Truth.
It really amazes me that there are long time ATS members in here who still believe in the OS of 911. From my years of research on 911, people who do not believe in the evidences that 911 was an inside job eventually will when more of the US population begins to accept the fact that the government lied to us and are hiding the Truth. Those that cannot conceive the idea that a small fraction of powerful politicians in the Bush administration and Pentagon officials pulled off the greatest deception in the world, are completely in “denial” or do not want to know the truth, and discussing 911 with them is the same as having a discussion with a role of toilet paper.

(underlined by me).

You bring forth an important point. People forget that it was a small faction of politicians, pentagon officials and intelligence agents who helped pull off 9/11, under orders from the Elite. The vast majority of each had no idea about what was to take place on that fateful day.

I agree that there is some PSYCHOLOGICAL barrier for a lot of people concerning 9/11 -- but I don't agree that it's about "not believing government can lie" -- it's more fundamental than that.

PLENTY of Conservatives "blame government" all the time, without noticing that it was some businessman who was BENEFITTING from "bad government." And plenty of Liberals I've known, can be well aware that our CIA has meddled in other countries to guarantee some corporations cheap labor and resources -- but then won't connect the dots to 9/11.

Plenty of smart people -- can admit that; "OK, perhaps there were some voting irregularities during the 2000 and 2004 elections" or also say; "There were no WMDs nor any justifications for invading Iraq." But then; WHY is it so hard to believe that the "attack" might have been staged? More Americans have died, and many, many more Iraqis, in order to have a long, expensive war in Iraq than were harmed on 9/11.

>> There is SOME FUNDAMENTAL MIND GAME GOING ON -- you cannot tell people that OFFICIALLY, JFK was NOT killed by a single shooter. You cannot tell them that both the Korean and Vietnam wars were based on BOGUS PROVOCATIONS.


I suppose, it's because, at some point, people have to ACCEPT THE STATUS QUO. If they believe that "9/11 was an inside job" -- they have to take responsibility. They have to realize that America had its own Reichstag fire. They are not Nazis -- yet they are part of being "good Germans."

We had a few good decades of prosperity in America, while people like Poindexter, Abramoff and Negroponte were eliminating people in latin America so that US corporations could dominate.

No, people did not go into ovens, and we did not have a world war -- but we've had more casualties. The starving people in Ethiopia, the endless civil wars in "resource rich" countries, and the more than 700 US military bases around the world -- the are all profiting someone and SOMEONE is selling the weapons to the people who kill the innocent.


>> There is no declared war. Everyone was "surprised" by the economic collapse of 2008 except those who benefitted from it. And the SAME people who couldn't be bothered to life a finger while they got 72 warnings about "Osama determined to attack" were so very capable of telling the American public "who did it" on the very same day the failed to prevent it.

George Bush somehow could be safe amongst school kids reading a book about goats.

Those who think that "incompetent screw ups" could never carry off such a thing - fail to realize that incompetent screw ups could never make sure that Press Reporters, Experts, and "Legitimate Agencies" were all prepared to sing the same chorus. The efficiency with which the White House gagged and bagged anyone deviating from the official story is truly amazing.

The gullibility of the press, to not question why so many things were missing or CERTAIN and at the same time, nobody could find the dang plane while the FAA landed over 10,000 planes in three hours -- it's truly staggering.


>> Accepting the INFALLIBILITY of evidence, while at the same time, thinking we could "accidentally" have everything line up in Bin Ladens favor is hard for me to wrap my mind around.


Obviously, there is something in the drinking water that I'm immune to -- but it's turned most of the people around me into gullible pod people.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


First off the video you posted was the one in the OP, and if you go to the 2nd page where I did the background checks on them. Two were not really psychologist and were more attuned to being snake oil salesman. Two only exist on the 9/11 sites and don't seem to have any practices, reviews or teach anywhere. One specialized in schizophrenia and communications so I don't see how that has anything to do with 9/11 or denial. In fact I don't see what psychological have do with anything about 9/11.

It seems like sense you can get anyone credible in terms of engineering and physicist so you get some crazy psychologist.

Such as Ms. Franpanfruitcake




Who diagnose a man and said he wasn't crazy just because he was an active member in the 9/11 truth movement. He then went on to kill his father in front of his mother.

9/11 is so delicious for so many reasons. The conspiracy of all conspiracies. It fits every single academic definition of a conspiracy theory, particularly the Truther pseudo-version (it must be 'pseudo', as there is no standard version posited by the Truther movement).

It seems rather obvious to me that Trutherism has something of an erotic charge to it. Truthers place a great deal of value in their self-satisfied notion that they are privy to some great secret that makes them more intelligent or open-minded or informed than so-called "sheeple." Most of us like be 'in' on a secret or a rumor precisely because it has a powerful erotic element. Special information is sexy, and being special enough to know it is intoxicating. In other words, I see a great deal of Trutherism as coming from a rather primal and emotional perspective, data notwithstanding. Having said that, because none of us are objective observers of existence, the Truther view is just as reasonable as the OS view.

I've been reading Truther/OS information since 9/11, and I've been on the fence many times, sometimes an OS-er (with some qualifications, of course), and a Truther at other times, or some combination of the two. The biggest problem is that while the OS does have some suspicious holes and phenomenal coincidences, I've not yet come across a single bit of Truther data that can't be just as reasonably viewed through the OS prism. For every contention posited by the Truth movement, there is a reasonable answer from the world of consensual reality.

There is literally not a SINGLE Truther contention that can't be effectively dealt with with contrary information or interpretation.

Originally posted by TheChemist1

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Did you even watch the video?

sure did.......and I think its pretty underhanded to tell people there is something wrong with them just because they might not agree on a certain viewpoint.......

Even though I disagree with your viewpoint I absolutely agree with your logic. Nothing like a swift kick to the underside to make your opinion less dignified. BTW I do believe in a conspiracy theory, and understand the psychology behind denial. However, there must be a more effective way to communicate through facts whether than undermining your opponents argument by suggesting flaws in our human nature are at fault. Even though I disagree with your explanation I still feel your pain. It's no different than when someone who believes the government was not involved calls other examiners of the data 'conspiracy theorists' and irrational.

Cheers to your comment on the video.

I agree that "communication" is hindered if you assume anyone disagreeing with you is CRAZY -- however, if it's been ten years, and you've made 10,000 points of; "Here is another curious thing that the Bush administration did that contradicts their point..." -- eventually, you have to wonder; WHY can this person not get what I'm saying?

Evolution is the bedrock of modern science, chemistry, and medicine. There are many THEORIES that explain Evolution -- and likely more than one PROCESS is involved over time to have a flying bird become a Penguin -- because why would GOD make a bird with wings, and then say; "Well, I guess I'll make him flutter around but only under water." Seriously, WHAT was God thinking if he made Penguins like they are on Day 1?

Sure, there might be aliens who experimented on People and Penguins -- but it until we find the flying saucer and the alien manual -- there is no point it THAT particular argument being in the textbooks.



>> Your point that JUST BECAUSE someone disagrees with me -- that doesn't mean they are crazy is very correct. However, it also doesn't mean that they are NOT addled in the brain. In fact, there are clear studies that show "born again" religious people, develop atrophy in parts of their brain related to memory. It isn't the "wishful thinking" of someone who might not like Jehovah's witnesses ringing their doorbell -- it's that an MRI can detect a smaller brain feature with statistical significance and correlation.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst



WOW you really hit the nail on the head, exactly !

To me it is like living in a episode of the Twilight Zone, so many people are not receptive to simple logic. Almost as if hard wired to think this way "or lack there of" How and why they have become so limited is disturbing. Invasion of the body snatchers is a great way to put it btw. What creeps me out is why would they go out the way to register on a conspiracy web site to refute the facts and UPHOLD THE STATUS QUO? Vigorously defending the official explanation yet not presenting any supporting evidence of the official story. It is not like there are a couple red flags, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. And not a single thing comes in question... nope. I have broken down a few in these corners to the point to where they admitted it was probably a conspiracy then would say "yes it is a cover up but it is pointless to reveal the truth" or something along that line. It is as if they want this cover up to remain but why?

This is not just immoral but kind of says some people WANT these agendas such as War on Iraq, Afghanistan, Muslims, and these campaigns to continue. It would not be unrealistic to believe a certain faction of people don't care about the people murdered on 911 in thinking it needed to happen or some small sacrifice in order to achieve certain agendas hence agree with the Governments tactics.

I have seen many people display for wanting more of these wrongs and atrocities in the process. They like the way things are, they do not want change they rather throw you in the sea then rock the boat just as long as they are not disturbed. Scary, but yes there are people like this and no they wont tell you what they want but they make it quite obvious. Actions speak louder then words. Sometimes inaction. Lack or caring can mean what i just discussed. It is not like thousands of Germans carried out death camps just because they thought they were being good germans, some enjoyed it.