Psychologists explain why some people can't accept alternate conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Did you even watch the video?

sure did.......and I think its pretty underhanded to tell people there is something wrong with them just because they might not agree on a certain viewpoint.......

Well thats odd, the OP made this post at 5:21 and you had your reply a mere 8 minutes later. Its not the fact that people dont believe 9/11 was an inside job, its the fact they dont even allow the idea to be a possibility or even bother to look at conflicting evidence.

Instead of analyzing the evidence it is tossed aside because people dont want to believe their government would do such a thing. its a vulnerable feeling thinking your government, who you are used to protecting you, may be involved in a plot that killed 3000 people and started a war that killed hundreds of thousands more. Your reaction is exactly what they talked about in this video.....

How is that odd? ive seen the video before, its been used in other forums for the same purpose as this one.....

I dont care what the evidence is.......i dont care what the viewpoint is on either side.......

To tell someone there is something wrong with them because they dont agree with you is horrible......

Funny, same people hate the whole "Well if you dont believe what we believe then your a terrorist!", sure as hell will use the same tactic when it aids in their cause wont they........

Naa your not a terrorist, youre just not rational......

Whatever....

edit on 21-9-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

Here... check this out real fast.

If I were to pour a bowl of lead BB's and put milk in it and called it cereal... people ate it and died... There is 100% something wrong with you if you still believe it's cereal because I said it was.

Not looking/caring about evidence is not a matter of opinion. There is 100% something wrong with these people. Yourself included. It means you'd rather believe what you want, rather than what is real. This is called "delusional" and is a psychological disorder.

This isn't to say you are supposed to put 100% of your faith in said explanation... however, to ignore the explanation entirely and flat out say you don't care... pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something wrong with you. The point is, you can't come to an accurate conclusion without looking at the facts. If you want to ignore the facts there is a very LARGE chance you will form the wrong conclusion. In fact, you will always form the wrong conclusion.... with the exception of chance.... which in something as complicated as 9/11... would just be astronomical.

So if some one says thermite was used, before you can rule out thermite -- you have to see why some one is saying thermite is used. If you say thermite wasn't used without looking at the evidence that suggest thermite was used... you are putting the chicken before the egg.

Also, I'm inclined to believe you never saw that video before... or you'd most likely of made notation in your first post that you did. Simple patterns of a liar.... Psychology is a Science -- after all.

The nation does need the truth to heal. Too much empirical evidence says that the official story of 911 is a lie.

It is not unlike a cheating spouce who will never admit the truth. The other spouce may know, but they will most likely accept the lies because they do not want to tear down their well being. They will want to defend their marriage, family etc… This can however result in a seeded mistrust, obsessive jealousy, decreased self worth, overly controlling behavior etc... that in the end will destroy the marriage.

Truth is the only thing that will save the marriage, as it is the only path back to a mutual trust.

If you have ever been to marriage counceling this is why you hear them say honesty, honesty, honesty over and over again.

If you have ever heard someone say "never admit it even if you feel bad". This is the worst advise you can take and I would imagine these poeple have never been in a relationship of more than a few years, or if they have I would bet the farm, that it is a very troubled one.

Truth and honesty are at the heart of all great unions, not mistrust and deceit.

Just think of the mistrust we are seeding in our children. Consider that schools teach one thing, but parents and other sources say something different. A child is forced to make a choice, and in turn will have a seeded mistrust of the Government or his Peers. It is very black and white! This has become a clear line in the sand, and yet we allow the few to go unpunished and in turn plant the seeds of our own destruction.

Like Whitney Houston said the "Children are the future".

Originally posted by A-Dub
The same things apply to trying to talk to deeply religious people about how that book may not be right. they just dont want to hear it and face the facts that they could have been living a lie their entire life.

Signs of the weak minded in my opinion. The sheeple want to be sheeple.

This of course is just your opinion.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
This article is the only rebuttal to these absurd claims that needs to be said to throw this nonsense into the garbage can for all time...

Psychologists explain why people support conspiracy theories

GOD, gotta love Ya.

Just at the beginning:

Psychologists Viren Swami, Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic, and Adrian Furnham published an article explaining the psychological anatomy of they types of person who would reject all empirical evidence and support alternative scenarios (specifically involving the 9/11 attack) regardless of the complete absence of evidence or logic. Their findings are...

Empirical evidence. Like molten pools of metal with WAY more energy than fires could account for? Nanothermite? Physics? Or are those "soft science" fudgy sorts of things?

The rest takes off from that point, and Ya know what? If We have to throw out evidence to come up with "empirical" evidence, the rest of that post is flawed, I might presume.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

To BELIEVE means to accept something as true, or false, without sufficient evidence.

So what? Besides I believe you may be confusing belief and faith. Belief basically holds that you may accept that something is true even though you may not have all the information at that time.

BELIEF is stupid, by definition.

No, not at all. Belief is what allows us to progress. Belief allows us to go to a Dr. and allow the Dr. to treat us without ourselves going to medical school.

9/11 is about physics.

Among many other things. Politics, history, religion, economics, sociology, etc.

The 9/11 Decade makes 9/11 the most hilariously stupid event in history.

Hilarious and stupid are not words that would immeadiately come to mind when discussing 9/11. Outside of things I sometimes see on this forum.

People BELIEVING an airliner could destroy a 400,000+ ton building in less than two hours without even asking about the distribution of steel in the building was pretty dumb.

Actually, thats not something they "believe", thats something they "witnessed". Which is kind of the exact opposite of belief.

DUH, are psychologists smart enough to handle Newtonian physics.

Yes. Are you?

Now what is the psychology of people admitting they were dumb enough to ever BELIEVE the official story?

Rational, well adjusted, reasonable, logical and fairly immune to being called "dumb" by people of dubious intelligence. In fact, as well adjusted rational humans they would probably get a little chuckle from the irony.

The psychology of Trusting in AUTHORITY.

You trust Newton, don't you?

Of course this would mean a lot of politicians around the world admitting they were either dummies or liars.

No, not really.

Funny how gravity works the same way all over the planet.

Can you prove that?

Real quick. Belief and Faith are the exact same thing. They are synonymous. If I go to a doctor, I put my faith in him that he knows what he's doing. If I go to a doctor, I believe he is knowledgeable enough to know what he's doing.

See, I used the same context for both words and the meaning didn't change.

I agree with you though, saying we need faith in things in order to reach any milestone of progress.

Actually, thats not something they "believe", thats something they "witnessed". Which is kind of the exact opposite of belief.

This is a silly statement, for the people only believe they seen what they saw. Lets apply this context to something like a magician...

The people in the crowd saw David Blane levitate.... They witnessed it, right? Wrong... because he can't levitate, they only BELIEVE they witnessed it.

So, really -- I just had to point that out to you.... it's quite NOT the opposite of faith... It's actually 100% contingent on belief.

(see how I changed faith into belief right there? Yeah, synonymous.)

Are psychologists smart enough to understand Newtonian physics? Only a maroon would categorically say yes. If they understood Newtonian physics, wouldn't they be physics majors? Yes, some of them probably do understand physics... but I'd venture to say most of them haven't clue...

The psychology of trusting authority.... Your response was "You trust newton don't you." Is another fallacy. Newton isn't an authority... And his claims can be independently verified.... Unlike claims made by the government that are general blanket statements. There is no experiment that can prove their claims. There are experiments that DO prove the opposite though.

So the facts presented by Newton is what gives most of the rational truthers a leg to stand on. You don't comprehend logic do you?

I want G O D to explain this video of Building 7 as being caused by fires.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
I want G O D to explain this video of Building 7 as being caused by fires.

www.youtube.com...

It's a [HOAX!]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Laokin
This isn't to say you are supposed to put 100% of your faith in said explanation... however, to ignore the explanation entirely and flat out say you don't care... pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something wrong with you.

What explanation? I've only ever seen one attempt by a Truther to produce a single cogent explanation of what happened, and it sounded so far out and ridiculous that you could see why others aren't so keen to try: if you put all the Truther ideas in one place at a time they look pretty ludicrous.

If you say thermite wasn't used without looking at the evidence that suggest thermite was used... you are putting the chicken before the egg.

There's usually a chicken before an egg!

Is this just another hoax website with carefully crafted disinformation involving physics, video/audio forensics that don't allude to a hologram theory, but a mainstream media (except for Al-Jazeera) collaborative effort to all act in collusion to use a bit of video manipulation to bring subversion to the official story?

septemberclues.info...

Google Video Link

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Hahaha, as I have said all along.....Truthers must use their proof machine in every post. YOUTUBE.

We can all find Psychologist vids backing both sides of the fence. Yet people on here flag this thread just for the sake of it instead of seeing how many other Psychs state that truthers use the same denial when confronted with the terrorist story - THE OFFICIAL STORY.

Truthers YOU NEED SOMETHING NEW - stop peddling the same 65 stories over and over again.

This is a good point. During the last primariy I was campaigning for senator A vs. senator B. A part of my duties included recruiting people who were interested in being district committeemen. The purpose of recruiting committeemen was to dismantle the stranglehold senator B had on the system, so we had to recruit people who wanted to oust him. It was literally a grass-roots effort. Take back control of the districts so we could get rid of those in power one tier at time.

I encountered an older woman who was voting for senator B and didn't want to hear any different. When I tried to point out his inconsistencies, support of amnesty bills and general pandering to whatever was expedient at the time, her reply was, "Oh noooo....I've voted for him for 30 years! I don't care! I vote for senator B". In short, she didn't care about facts. She had this blind, unfounded allegiance to senator B no matter what his policies were.

But the real problem isn't so much that they are misinformed; there is plenty of information available to get to the truth. The fact is, her mind was a "lock-box" and she could swear up and down she has an open mind, but the reality was, she had such a blind bias she simply wasn't open to information that went against her own belief system.

I believe this is the case with many who voted for Obama, (and Bush as well for that matter) as well as those who blindly accept the OS regarding 9/11. Ask any OS'er why all three buildings fell at free-fall speed, offering virtually no resistance to the floors above and they can't answer you, but that's not the real issue, the real issue is, they don't want to know why! If they were open, critical thinkers they would say, "you know, that's a good point, I never really thought about it" and they would proceed to dig deeper, but instead they're bound by their allegiance to the Bush administration, conservativism, pro-government, etc. Any research will show that kerosene burns between 500 and 800*F (free burn, without "assistance"). The 1800 degree number that is thrown around is a blatant lie. In the best circumstances, with accelerants, perfect air/fuel mixture, you might hit 1200 or 1500 degrees, but free-burning is around 500 degrees. If kerosene could melt steel, the insides of jet engines would disintegrate and kerosene heaters world-wide would be failing and turning into puddles of melted steel. But that's just another one of those facts that OS'ers refuse to question. What I just stated is pretty transparent. Anybody can go buy a gallon of kerosene and conduct their own test. Show me how kerosene can melt steel.

And I don't what to hear the argument that it "weakened" the steel, it didn't melt it. There was PLENTY of evidence of melted steel at the WTC. It was everywhere. Further more, a jet engine burns at the optimum fuel/air mixture...they have to, therefore if kerosene could melt steel, it would do so in a jet engine.

In short, people don't want to know the truth, they want to know what is "comfortable".

reply to post by Six6Six


You are describing the believers, far more than the "truthers".

Originally posted by Laokin
Real quick. Belief and Faith are the exact same thing. They are synonymous. If I go to a doctor, I put my faith in him that he knows what he's doing. If I go to a doctor, I believe he is knowledgeable enough to know what he's doing.

See, I used the same context for both words and the meaning didn't change.

I agree with you though, saying we need faith in things in order to reach any milestone of progress.

I didn't say any such thing.

I don't have faith in doctors. I just accept the fact that in some circumstances I have to deal with people who should know more about a particular area than I do. But my mother went to a doctor who said she had a viral infection when actually it was a heart problem. She went to another doctor and then had a heart operation.

Faith my ass!

But skyscrapers are grade school physics. Everybody should understand the importance of the distribution of steel. Including psychologists.

But after TEN YEARS. 9/11 is hilarious. The United States is the nation that put men on the Moon. The Empire State Building is 3 miles form ground zero.

What does ten years of this say about the psychology of Americans? Mr. Spock should laugh his ass off.

www.youtube.com...

psik

reply to post by Laokin

This is a silly statement, for the people only believe they seen what they saw. Lets apply this context to something like a magician...

No, lets not. Magicians, movies, etc. are entertainment. There are living human beings that witnessed the planes crash into the buildings and saw (and felt) the buildings collapse. Not a magic trick.

The people in the crowd saw David Blane levitate.... They witnessed it, right?

No they witnessed a magic trick, slight of hand, misdirection. They had no oppurtunity to test what they saw. No one is allowed on stage to exam the magician physically. People on 9/11 were running around bleeding and covered in the dust of the collapsed towers.

Wrong... because he can't levitate, they only BELIEVE they witnessed it.

No they KNOW he tricked them, they just don't know how.

So, really -- I just had to point that out to you.... it's quite NOT the opposite of faith... It's actually 100% contingent on belief.

Its the opposite.

(see how I changed faith into belief right there? Yeah, synonymous.)

No they are not synonymous. Belief is based on knowledge that you don't have but know is available. I believe the vaccine will work, but if I wanted to I can avail myself of more information and even conduct my own experiments. Faith is knowledge in the total void of evidence.

Are psychologists smart enough to understand Newtonian physics? Only a maroon would categorically say yes.

Name calling, thats nice. Yes, psychologist understand physics.

If they understood Newtonian physics, wouldn't they be physics majors?

No, why? They may also understand Spanish, does that mean that have to live in Mexico?

Yes, some of them probably do understand physics... but I'd venture to say most of them haven't clue...

Why?

The psychology of trusting authority.... Your response was "You trust newton don't you." Is another fallacy. Newton isn't an authority... And his claims can be independently verified.... Unlike claims made by the government that are general blanket statements. There is no experiment that can prove their claims. There are experiments that DO prove the opposite though.

Which experiments haven disproven blanket statements made by the government? And why do you believe them?

So the facts presented by Newton is what gives most of the rational truthers a leg to stand on.

So whay are we here ten years later and all this physics has gotten you nowhere? Are you so much smarter than everyone else? Or could it be that the "leg" that the truthers stand on is basically saying the word "physics" and demanding that every word that then suceeds that mantra be accepted as the in fallible truth?

You don't comprehend logic do you?

I'd say I comprehend language and logic much better than you could ever hope.

I wonder if the refusal to look at alternatives to the OS might be more a manifestation of the country’s political schism than a psychological issue. I think after ten years most people know on at least a visceral level that something isn’t quite right with the OS. However, calling the OS into question is also raising the possibility of mind-bogglingly treasonous acts by primarily the Republican Bush Administration that, if exposed, would deal a staggering blow to all Republicans, so perhaps there is nothing more than an unconscious circling of the political wagons going on.

Originally posted by Laokin

If I were to pour a bowl of lead BB's and put milk in it and called it cereal... people ate it and died... There is 100% something wrong with you if you still believe it's cereal because I said it was.

Not looking/caring about evidence is not a matter of opinion. There is 100% something wrong with these people. Yourself included. It means you'd rather believe what you want, rather than what is real. This is called "delusional" and is a psychological disorder.

This isn't to say you are supposed to put 100% of your faith in said explanation... however, to ignore the explanation entirely and flat out say you don't care... pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something wrong with you. The point is, you can't come to an accurate conclusion without looking at the facts. If you want to ignore the facts there is a very LARGE chance you will form the wrong conclusion. In fact, you will always form the wrong conclusion.... with the exception of chance.... which in something as complicated as 9/11... would just be astronomical.

So if some one says thermite was used, before you can rule out thermite -- you have to see why some one is saying thermite is used. If you say thermite wasn't used without looking at the evidence that suggest thermite was used... you are putting the chicken before the egg.

Actually the cereal analogy is quite apt when applying it to thermite. There is no evidence of Thermite only what someone suggests to you based on the appearance of something molten. Aluminium burns quite readily and at low temperatures and would look quite spectacular.

So the evidence for aluminium or thermite is identical. Take your pick, neither is certain.

By the way if somebody states "I believe X caused Y" and up to that point there was no evidence of X it is up to that person to prove their point. Stating it and using the number of believers of the statement as proof is no proof which is how the weight of this Truther argument goes. By the way I'm clever and don't fall for the psycological use of the word "Truther", some people obviously fall for it.

Personally I find the thermite,demolition issue mute. Take a grand step back to what we know.

* Two planes were flown into the towers. we know this is true because of the phone calls made by the passengers.

Now you have a problem if it's a conspiracy. Who flew the planes? There are only 3 choices:

1. Terrorists unaware they are being used by the government as fall guys.
2. Islamists committing suicide for the US government but still ascending to heaven.
3. Non islamists (not ascending to heaven) so must be forced to commit suicide.

Number 1 : Total lunacy. A massive conspiracy involving the laying of demolition charges undetected waiting to get set off assuming some terrorist group goes through with its plan AND successfully crashes the planes. Not a hope in hell. If you believe this then seek medical advice! Too many things to go wrong and far far simpler methods could be employed.

Number 2 : Yeah right. Islamists dying for the US government

Number 3 : Somebody is coerced by the government to commit suicide. It can't be from threat of death can it ! It can only be through a promise of death to all their family if they don't go through with. So this person would have to believe they were serious which would probably require at least one dead family member as proof of intent. They would then have to believe that if they go through with it their family will be unharmed! Yeah right pull the other one.

Number 3 is the most likely as well!

In my opinion we have a grand cock-up. The attack was genuine. The authorities knew there would be an attack but were unsure when or from where. Intelligence screwed up and the suspects were allowed to get on a plane! Now we have the intelligence agencies and the government frantically trying to not look incompetent. Its as simple as that, plain old human frailties at the heart of the problems. People lying to cover their arse not a conspiracy.

I forgot number 4:

A Truthers explanation of who flew the plane is :

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by hooper
You trust Newton, don't you?

Of course not, Newton is dead.

Physics is not Newton.

Experiments can be done with physics now.

You can just come up with rhetorical bullsh#!

psik

Why dont YOU calculate the impact loads possible washer man!!!! then STFU about newtons laws if you are going to quote them USE them fully, work out the IMPACT LOAD!!!

PLENTY OF CALCULATORS ON THE NET HERE TRY THIS ONE

www.livephysics.com...


HEIGHT 3.66 mts (floor height for wtc)
Mass 700 tons for the concrete in a floorslab so 700,000 kg
Gravity 9.8
Distance traveled after impact thats the tricky part.

if the angles failed about 20mm max or 0.02 mtrs
if the bolts failed 5/8" or 16mm or 0.016 mtrs
if the floor supported it over the truss depth (DOUBT THAT) 0.9mtrs

Put the figs in REMEMBER ITS FOR ONE FLOORSLAB OF MASS FALLING
Divide the answer you get in Newtons by 10,000 (n in a ton)
See what you get!!!

For North tower multiply by 15 and that still doesn't include the rest of the falling mass
For South tower multiply by 31 and that stll doesn't include the rest of the falling mass.

So what about Newtons Laws!

Originally posted by Exv8densez
Well, at least nobody's going to bitch about them not being experts.

But NEVER forget also; it's not that people don't know or can't know the truth, it's that they would rather see what they can benefit from the lie first. There are as many vile ones in the masses as there are vile ones in the elite rulers.

Oh, I could...and reasonably, at that.

This is Brian Birdwell, a pentagon 9/11 burn victim. Pretty sad story to hear what its like to have actually been on the verge of death on 9/11 and what was going on in THERE head.


www.iamsecond.com...

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


First of all, us truthers who have done our research have not said ANYTHING about holographic planes. If you actually had been doing the research from the beginning, you would know that we despise crackpot ideas like this. The planes were real, but they were most likely laser guided, as you can see a laser going across the buildings in all of the original videos. Please don't spew out random crap unless you know what you are talking about.