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Psychologists explain why some people can't accept alternate conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.
page: 13share:
Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by Unknown Soldier
You twisted the facts.
Just like a conspiracy theorist.
Good for you.
Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
That 85% many of them do not believe the official story, that said most people don't buy the Commission Report propaganda. What does this mean? It means we know we are being lied to... reason being?
Think about it
The graph says that 85% of the population believes in the official 'public' story.
You just got caught in a lie. Your credibility as a debater is gone.
edit on 9/22/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)
Disagree with OS 12%
Undecided 22%
Controlled demolition is credible theory 14%
Sound to me you have to add those to 48%. The remaining 52% would believe OS without doubt. That's a different % than 85%. I need to watch the video again...
Honestly, statistics are rubbish. You'll get different answers depending on how you phrase it and where you get your sample from. Like, I've never
once done a survey from television, yet these surveys show up. Their percentage does not accurately reflect the opinions I am surrounded by on a daily
basis. It is made up of people who have a strong enough opinion to vote on them and stay in the know when votes happen.
It's like my father used to say, 97.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.
It's like my father used to say, 97.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.
edit on 24-9-2011 by Varemia because: fixed word
Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Originally posted by TheChemist1
Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
Did you even watch the video?
sure did.......and I think its pretty underhanded to tell people there is something wrong with them just because they might not agree on a certain viewpoint.......
Even though I disagree with your viewpoint I absolutely agree with your logic. Nothing like a swift kick to the underside to make your opinion less dignified. BTW I do believe in a conspiracy theory, and understand the psychology behind denial. However, there must be a more effective way to communicate through facts whether than undermining your opponents argument by suggesting flaws in our human nature are at fault. Even though I disagree with your explanation I still feel your pain. It's no different than when someone who believes the government was not involved calls other examiners of the data 'conspiracy theorists' and irrational.
Cheers to your comment on the video.
I agree that "communication" is hindered if you assume anyone disagreeing with you is CRAZY -- however, if it's been ten years, and you've made 10,000 points of; "Here is another curious thing that the Bush administration did that contradicts their point..." -- eventually, you have to wonder; WHY can this person not get what I'm saying?
Evolution is the bedrock of modern science, chemistry, and medicine. There are many THEORIES that explain Evolution -- and likely more than one PROCESS is involved over time to have a flying bird become a Penguin -- because why would GOD make a bird with wings, and then say; "Well, I guess I'll make him flutter around but only under water." Seriously, WHAT was God thinking if he made Penguins like they are on Day 1?
Sure, there might be aliens who experimented on People and Penguins -- but it until we find the flying saucer and the alien manual -- there is no point it THAT particular argument being in the textbooks.
>> Your point that JUST BECAUSE someone disagrees with me -- that doesn't mean they are crazy is very correct. However, it also doesn't mean that they are NOT addled in the brain. In fact, there are clear studies that show "born again" religious people, develop atrophy in parts of their brain related to memory. It isn't the "wishful thinking" of someone who might not like Jehovah's witnesses ringing their doorbell -- it's that an MRI can detect a smaller brain feature with statistical significance and correlation.
Sorry for the late response.
This is a tough one to tackle because it takes into account a lot of circumstantial evidence that is straying away from the facts we need to hear about the WTC collapse. I totally understand your frustration with those who have difficulty refuting (well not in their mind) the bulk of research performed by many architects and engineers about the collapse. I just require more research before blaming those in denial instead of those who must be held accountable. Can't there be a better way of swaying opinion with presentation other than attacking denial itself? I feel this psychological issue is too large to be tackled in one sitting by us, but I do appreciate its significance and for that I applaud you!
Originally posted by Varemia
Honestly, statistics are rubbish. You'll get different answers depending on how you phrase it and where you get your sample from. Like, I've never once done a survey from television, yet these surveys show up. Their percentage does not accurately reflect the opinions I am surrounded by on a daily basis. It is made up of people who have a strong enough opinion to vote on them and stay in the know when votes happen.
It's like my father used to say, 97.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.edit on 24-9-2011 by Varemia because: fixed word
Well this depends on the quality of the statistic. Obviously the people that surround you are more likely to share your thinking. You would likely not be befriended with people that have radically different behavior and or thought patterns.
I think a decent statistic is much more reliable than your daily environment.
Just as an example: if you would be a moviestar or a miner you would be surrounded by a very different group of people and most likely live in very different communities. Although these are extremes, I am sure you get the point of where you live/work/etcetera is not a fair representation of a whole population.
Originally posted by TheChemist1
...
Sorry for the late response.
This is a tough one to tackle because it takes into account a lot of circumstantial evidence that is straying away from the facts we need to hear about the WTC collapse. I totally understand your frustration with those who have difficulty refuting (well not in their mind) the bulk of research performed by many architects and engineers about the collapse. I just require more research before blaming those in denial instead of those who must be held accountable. Can't there be a better way of swaying opinion with presentation other than attacking denial itself? I feel this psychological issue is too large to be tackled in one sitting by us, but I do appreciate its significance and for that I applaud you!
>> The SOLUTION is as simple as it is difficult; wait for the status quo to FAIL.
As soon as the vast majority in this country have lost a home, or been shafted by their life in America -- their "psychosis" will be over. The MAIN impetus for the "status quo delusion" is that people sacrifice their judgement, in order to enjoy the benefits. No more benefits -- no more delusion.
Only Lazy people are on unemployment or welfare -- until your on unemployment or welfare.
... but I'm not able to CREATE this "understanding" by merely talking to people who don't WANT to think that the STATUS QUO they believe in is a lie.
Some of the posts in this thread actually highlight the points the video makes re: denial, and adherence to the OS no matter what. Now everyone is
nitpicking everyone else's minor variances in what THEY believed happened, which misses the point, which is: IT COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED THE WAY OUR
GOVT SAYS IT HAPPENED.
They lied, which is our starting point. They engaged in a conspiracy to hide the truth. There are too many holes in the OS to list..but 7WC is the big one. can't make a building fall the way it did without demo, since no plane hit it. full stop. that alone puts us at "inside job". the air defense stand-down does as well; OBL couldn't have ordered our planes around, now could he? No one is ever going to get the true story completely correct; it doesn't need to be. we just need to know the OS isn't true. the story will get filled in once we get ahold of the real perps and get them talking(if that ever happens). you guys are arguing over minor details, really. also, at this late date, anyone who still holds to the OS as gospel ain't gonna give it up no matter WHAT evidence comes forth. cognitive dissonance is quite powerful..
They lied, which is our starting point. They engaged in a conspiracy to hide the truth. There are too many holes in the OS to list..but 7WC is the big one. can't make a building fall the way it did without demo, since no plane hit it. full stop. that alone puts us at "inside job". the air defense stand-down does as well; OBL couldn't have ordered our planes around, now could he? No one is ever going to get the true story completely correct; it doesn't need to be. we just need to know the OS isn't true. the story will get filled in once we get ahold of the real perps and get them talking(if that ever happens). you guys are arguing over minor details, really. also, at this late date, anyone who still holds to the OS as gospel ain't gonna give it up no matter WHAT evidence comes forth. cognitive dissonance is quite powerful..
edit on 25-9-2011 by dragonseeker because: (no reason
given)
edit on 25-9-2011 by dragonseeker because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-9-2011 by dragonseeker because: (no
reason given)
Originally posted by BlueSkies
Originally posted by Varemia
Honestly, statistics are rubbish. You'll get different answers depending on how you phrase it and where you get your sample from. Like, I've never once done a survey from television, yet these surveys show up. Their percentage does not accurately reflect the opinions I am surrounded by on a daily basis. It is made up of people who have a strong enough opinion to vote on them and stay in the know when votes happen.
It's like my father used to say, 97.6% of statistics are made up on the spot.edit on 24-9-2011 by Varemia because: fixed word
Well this depends on the quality of the statistic. Obviously the people that surround you are more likely to share your thinking. You would likely not be befriended with people that have radically different behavior and or thought patterns.
I think a decent statistic is much more reliable than your daily environment.
Just as an example: if you would be a moviestar or a miner you would be surrounded by a very different group of people and most likely live in very different communities. Although these are extremes, I am sure you get the point of where you live/work/etcetera is not a fair representation of a whole population.
Well, I mean, it's not like I go out seeking people who accept the OS. I just can't find very many people who are against it. I only know one person, and we are friends. We just have a nonverbal agreement to never talk about it, because she gets crazy upset.
Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
sure did.......and I think its pretty underhanded to tell people there is something wrong with them just because they might not agree on a certain viewpoint.......
It's not a question on agreeing on a viewpoint ... it's a question of going against physics, the laws of nature, just to hold on to a belief. The official story, is equivalent to religion ... but in this special type of religion, you are not free to hold on to it ... your freedom does not include, denying evidence and believing in fantasy, and closing your eyes to the murder of millions of people, as a result. That's where your freedom ends.
Let me take as an example ... one of the terrorists papers were found blocks away. Is this a possibility? No. How can you even believe that it's a possibility that his papers flew out the window. Paper flies slower than fire, and when the building clashes with the plane, the plane is compressed and the papers have to flay out windows, through tail sections, through iron ... ahead of the fire ... this isn't equivalent to a plane crashing on the ground, and going into pieces that will fly far apart ... this is an example of a crash, where the plane is concentrated and totally engulfed in the fire.
Believing this, is a belief ... it's convenient to believe it to be some muslims. But the governments war murdered over a million people, and to this date, there are children being born out there, maimed beyond recognition from radioactive contamination.
Today, the president is the equivalent of Mr. Adolf, and the muslims are the equivalent of Mr. Adolfs jews ... they are an easy target to blame. You don't blame someone, because they're easy to blame ...
Have you seen the movie Thor? What does Odin say to his son, when he goes out to war against the enemy for the actions of the few? They are but the actions of the few. And when Thor says, they must pay for what they did. Odin replies, but they did ... they payed with their lives. And then Odin says: You are a greedy, stupid and ignorant son, that has brought the horrors of war upon us, and are not worthy of the power entrusted in you... and I cast you out ...
It's almost a cliché, really ...
edit on 26-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Varemia
Well, I mean, it's not like I go out seeking people who accept the OS. I just can't find very many people who are against it. I only know one person, and we are friends. We just have a nonverbal agreement to never talk about it, because she gets crazy upset.
And you sir, are just a troll.
You have no arguements to throw out there ... the only thing you do, is denying arguements and bringing forth endless clichés. Your purpose, is obvious ... to sit on 9/11 forums, and try to be the "last" one to have a comment, hoping that others will view your empty cliche, as truths.
You will endlessly sit on these forums, provide nothing of value to the discussion, except endless reiterations of official falsehoods. No arguements of your own, no viewpoints of your own ...
Obviously, with the intend of having the last word ...
You are most likely a government troll.
edit on 26-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by bjarneorn
Originally posted by Varemia
Well, I mean, it's not like I go out seeking people who accept the OS. I just can't find very many people who are against it. I only know one person, and we are friends. We just have a nonverbal agreement to never talk about it, because she gets crazy upset.
And you sir, are just a troll.
You have no arguements to throw out there ... the only thing you do, is denying arguements and bringing forth endless clichés. Your purpose, is obvious ... to sit on 9/11 forums, and try to be the "last" one to have a comment, hoping that others will view your empty cliche, as truths.
You will endlessly sit on these forums, provide nothing of value to the discussion, except endless reiterations of official falsehoods. No arguements of your own, no viewpoints of your own ...
Obviously, with the intend of having the last word ...
You are most likely a government troll.
edit on 26-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)
What do you mean contributing nothing? I almost always try to include my sources when I make claims, and when I'm not sure, I use words such as "probably, possibly, likely, maybe, not sure, and I don't know."
I never make the claim that something is absolutely impossible, because that would be scientifically dishonest, and I always try to find the truth by posting pictures and evidence that would correct the falsehoods I see toted mostly by the demolition believers (although, if you follow my post history closely, I make a point to correct the non-demolition folk too).
You can call me a troll or a shill for trying my best to bring the truth to the table, but that won't make me turn tail and let you and others become ignorant based on false information. I am not some dog you can push around with groundless accusations and incredulity. I also won't report your post for the extremely obvious ad hominem. I prefer for people to know what users are posting most of the time, so that they can realize that the people posting these things have to look to attacks on character to diffuse a person's argument.
Fight the points, not the person, friend.
reply to post by Varemia
You put no points forward, just deny, "already know", I know no one that goes against the OS(< that one is actually funny...), and some more tard tidbits. Maybe you wont report because hes telling the truth, and not really throwing ad-hom? As said in another thread, you have shown pretty important ignorance or just not caring for important matters, my advice is still the same, educate yourself.[
editby]edit on 26-9-2011 by Saltarello because: (no reason given)
You put no points forward, just deny, "already know", I know no one that goes against the OS(< that one is actually funny...), and some more tard tidbits. Maybe you wont report because hes telling the truth, and not really throwing ad-hom? As said in another thread, you have shown pretty important ignorance or just not caring for important matters, my advice is still the same, educate yourself.[
editby]edit on 26-9-2011 by Saltarello because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-9-2011 by Saltarello because: (no reason given)
Quote from off-site:
"Having achieved political power, Hitler and his Nazi cohorts looked for a way to solidify their position. The destruction of the Reichstag Building was their answer. Evidence discovered after World War Two indicates that the fire that engulfed the Reichstag twenty-eight days after Hitler's ascendency to Chancellor was planned and executed by his henchmen, Herman Goering and Joseph Goebbels, Hitler publicly blamed the Communists, an accusation that allowed him to arrest the Communist members of the Reichstag and thereby eliminate his major political opposition... In late March 1933, Hitler presented legislation to the Reichstag that would transfer its powers to himself. The members easily voted themselves out of existence and proclaimed Hitler the sole leader of Germany. His total control of the country was democratically reconfirmed the following year when, in a plebiscite, 90% of the voters approved of Hitler's dictatorial leadership. He was acclaimed as der Fueher. He had learned a bitter lesson years earlier when he sought to achieve power through violence and failed (see Adolph Hitler Attempts a Coup, 1923). Now, he attained his goal through the skillful use of the tools of democracy. A fire during the night of February 27, 1933 paved the way.
D. Sefton Delmar was a reporter for the London Daily Express who witnessed the fire. We join his account as Hitler exclaims his reaction to the inferno:
"'This is a God-given signal! If this fire, as I believe, turns out to be the handiwork of Communists, then there is nothing that shall stop us now crushing out this murder pest with an iron fist.' Adolf Hitler, Fascist Chancellor of Germany, made this dramatic declaration in my presence tonight in the hall of the burning Reichstag building."
Source: www.eyewitnesstohistory.com...
Read on...
If you are a student of history, you will see the blazing similarities.
Only, instead of Communists, now read "Islam." (Terrorist was the same word both for Hitler and Bush).
If you are not a student of history, be silent, because you have much to learn in the culmination of the world war that the Bushists started.
It is escalating now. And today's Nazis will lose it just like they did then.
I must point out that a large majority of Germans simply believed Hitler.
Just like many in America believe Bush.
The difference?
There was no Internet.
Truth will out.
The war is more vicious though this time. There are millions massacred in Muslim countries, not thousands as the media tells you. And the lingering radioactivity will be there for tens of thousands of years.
Just like with the Nazis, the real atrocities will only come to light when the empire finally falls.
Do you know how they called those in the mid-forties who wispered that Nazis killed millions in camps in the heart of Europe?
Madmen and consiracy theorists...
So why did many ordinary Germans - and others influenced by German culture - refuse to believe that
1. their government made the Reichstag fire happen, knowingly, to use the hysteria and take concerted power
2. that their government caused the death of millions during the war
??
BECAUSE THEIR WORLD VIEW WOULD HAVE BEEN SHATTERED. THAT IS WHY.
And that is what this video is about. Not thermites or freefall.
The Empire is in freefall now. Are you with it, and still try to justify its deeds, or do you dare to criticise it?
From within or without?
That is the only remaining question.
Go figure.
"Having achieved political power, Hitler and his Nazi cohorts looked for a way to solidify their position. The destruction of the Reichstag Building was their answer. Evidence discovered after World War Two indicates that the fire that engulfed the Reichstag twenty-eight days after Hitler's ascendency to Chancellor was planned and executed by his henchmen, Herman Goering and Joseph Goebbels, Hitler publicly blamed the Communists, an accusation that allowed him to arrest the Communist members of the Reichstag and thereby eliminate his major political opposition... In late March 1933, Hitler presented legislation to the Reichstag that would transfer its powers to himself. The members easily voted themselves out of existence and proclaimed Hitler the sole leader of Germany. His total control of the country was democratically reconfirmed the following year when, in a plebiscite, 90% of the voters approved of Hitler's dictatorial leadership. He was acclaimed as der Fueher. He had learned a bitter lesson years earlier when he sought to achieve power through violence and failed (see Adolph Hitler Attempts a Coup, 1923). Now, he attained his goal through the skillful use of the tools of democracy. A fire during the night of February 27, 1933 paved the way.
D. Sefton Delmar was a reporter for the London Daily Express who witnessed the fire. We join his account as Hitler exclaims his reaction to the inferno:
"'This is a God-given signal! If this fire, as I believe, turns out to be the handiwork of Communists, then there is nothing that shall stop us now crushing out this murder pest with an iron fist.' Adolf Hitler, Fascist Chancellor of Germany, made this dramatic declaration in my presence tonight in the hall of the burning Reichstag building."
Source: www.eyewitnesstohistory.com...
Read on...
If you are a student of history, you will see the blazing similarities.
Only, instead of Communists, now read "Islam." (Terrorist was the same word both for Hitler and Bush).
If you are not a student of history, be silent, because you have much to learn in the culmination of the world war that the Bushists started.
It is escalating now. And today's Nazis will lose it just like they did then.
I must point out that a large majority of Germans simply believed Hitler.
Just like many in America believe Bush.
The difference?
There was no Internet.
Truth will out.
The war is more vicious though this time. There are millions massacred in Muslim countries, not thousands as the media tells you. And the lingering radioactivity will be there for tens of thousands of years.
Just like with the Nazis, the real atrocities will only come to light when the empire finally falls.
Do you know how they called those in the mid-forties who wispered that Nazis killed millions in camps in the heart of Europe?
Madmen and consiracy theorists...
So why did many ordinary Germans - and others influenced by German culture - refuse to believe that
1. their government made the Reichstag fire happen, knowingly, to use the hysteria and take concerted power
2. that their government caused the death of millions during the war
??
BECAUSE THEIR WORLD VIEW WOULD HAVE BEEN SHATTERED. THAT IS WHY.
And that is what this video is about. Not thermites or freefall.
The Empire is in freefall now. Are you with it, and still try to justify its deeds, or do you dare to criticise it?
From within or without?
That is the only remaining question.
Go figure.
edit on 9/26/2011 by Kokatsi because: Additions, corrections
edit on 9/26/2011 by Kokatsi because: spelling
reply to post by _BoneZ_
Psychology was developed by governments as a means to control their citizens, not help them. It's no accident that Edward Bernays, the father of propaganda, was also the nephew of Sigmund Freud, the father of modern psychology.
Psychologists are used often by Intelligence agencies as a means of collecting information and making citizens compliant. It is not limited to things like mass media, and includes things like torture:
www.truth-out.org...
You're being naive if you think CIA psychologists haven't been manipulating public perception for generations.
Everything you think you know, everything, is given to us by CIA controlled perception managers. Especially 911 "truth" groups like AE911T.
Psychology was developed by governments as a means to control their citizens, not help them. It's no accident that Edward Bernays, the father of propaganda, was also the nephew of Sigmund Freud, the father of modern psychology.
Psychologists are used often by Intelligence agencies as a means of collecting information and making citizens compliant. It is not limited to things like mass media, and includes things like torture:
handwritten notes obtained exclusively by Truthout drafted two decades ago by Dr. John Bruce Jessen, the psychologist who was under contract to the CIA and credited as being one of the architects of the government’s top-secret torture program, tell a dramatically different story about the reasons detainees were brutalized and it was not just about obtaining intelligence. Rather, as Jessen’s notes explain, torture was used to “exploit” detainees, that is, to break them down physically and mentally, in order to get them to “collaborate” with government authorities. Jessen’s notes emphasize how a “detainer” uses the stresses of detention to produce the appearance of compliance in a prisoner.
www.truth-out.org...
You're being naive if you think CIA psychologists haven't been manipulating public perception for generations.
Everything you think you know, everything, is given to us by CIA controlled perception managers. Especially 911 "truth" groups like AE911T.
Hi Bonez-
I fell upon this a little while ago and felt that it was a good read. I posted a link to this thread onto another regarding the hopes that sheeple will snap out of it and realize what our rock is cooking!
Here it is if you are interested.
Peace-
McS
I fell upon this a little while ago and felt that it was a good read. I posted a link to this thread onto another regarding the hopes that sheeple will snap out of it and realize what our rock is cooking!
Here it is if you are interested.
Peace-
McS
....
edit on 13-7-2013 by alienreality because: old thread nevermind////
reply to post by _BoneZ_
When I click on the video or on the You Tuble link the message states that "This video is parivate." The video cannot be viewed. What happened?
When I click on the video or on the You Tuble link the message states that "This video is parivate." The video cannot be viewed. What happened?
bjarneorn
You are most likely a government troll.
There needs to be some kind of corollary to Godwin's Law whereby anyone who makes this charge is automatically considered to have lost the debate.
reply to post by _BoneZ_
Bump thread.
Excellent and important contribution.
There's a paper I came across regarding the same phenomenon - will go find and post here.
Best Regards,
NAM
Bump thread.
Excellent and important contribution.
There's a paper I came across regarding the same phenomenon - will go find and post here.
Best Regards,
NAM
Here it is found it.
Faulty Towers of Belief: Part I. Demolishing the Iconic Psychological Barriers to 9/11 Truth
Laurie A. Manwell, M.Sc., June 2007
(pdf) www.journalof911studies.com...
Faulty Towers of Belief: Part I. Demolishing the Iconic Psychological Barriers to 9/11 Truth
Laurie A. Manwell, M.Sc., June 2007
(pdf) www.journalof911studies.com...