Can you prove evolution wrong

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by CharlesBronson
reply to post by humphreysjim

 

1.Examples of Mans evolution from ape to now and its continued process?
2.Please factually state what species of ape did man originate from and were the fossil records to prove such claim?

I just replied with some of this info in my last post, but am stopping here because this thread is becoming THE EXACT OPPOSITE to what it was supposed to be.

This thread is not about proving evolution, it is about the creationists stepping forward to prove their version of events.

Not copping out, just trying to stay on topic.

Exactly as you say. This is a chance for creationists to take on the role usually given to the evolutionists and put their side forwards and we take theirs.

Evolutionists have offered reams of evidence in the past threads it is now the turn of creationists to do the same.

Better suggestions for your title:

OP (colin42) proved 100% Troll.

or

OP (colin42) proved 100% agitator.

or (my personal favorite)

It has been more than 72 hours could we please have another 30+ page argument between the haters and hopers?

lol. sorry couldn't help myself.


Seriously though what you are asking for is proof of belief... I've made this point on different threads but I'll make it here also.

#1. The divinity of Jesus and/or existance of a (God) creator is unproveable. But, the historical accuracy of biblical events and figures is a fact.

#2. Speciation is a consistant and proven fact. However, evolution beyond speciation is unproveable.

i.e. red flowers can be taught,trained or just randomly become white flowers... But dogs cannot become cats or earthworms or even red/white flowers.

Evolutionism as a theory of origin by definition must be constant and ongoing, yet in the last few hundred years researchers have yet to witness even something as simple as one genus becomeing another genus let alone the transition from family,kind or life to another type of family, kind or life. Where is the consistancy and ongoing nature of it? Just a thought.

However, if this is your religion you are entitled to it.

Even the followers of "discordianism" or the "giant spagetti monster from space" are entitled to their opinions. But you can deny it all you want, every religion is defined by Faith and Belief. Evolutionism is as much a religion as Creationism. But they lack the hope which creationist religions seem to exhibit. I think I'll keep my hope thank you very much.

Hate always comes from somewhere and I am very sorry if yours resulted from a Christian. Since Christians are supposed to "Love ye, One another" (John 13:34) I'm afraid that whoever triggered your hate was being a poor example. On behalf of Christians everywhere I apologize for their actions.

Respectfully,
Two-Bears

(p.s. sorry for focusing only on christianity... that is usually what OP's like this are targeting. But other religions around the world also very probably exhisted... their divinity and accuracy are also debateable and a matter for faith/belief. buddha, muhammed, confuscious, etc...)

wait....there's people that still don't believe in evolution?

But they believe there's an old man who lives in the sky that created everything

Now, when you go to church and they pass around the collection basket remember:

The More You Give, The More you Live!

Religion is one of if not the biggest scam/con jobs in history. It's been around for a long time. You can make alot of money when your playing on peoples fear of death. I mean do you have any idea how wealthy the preachers you see on TV are? Yet they talk about helping the poor. If there was an actual Jesus as portrayed in the Bible, and he saw these people making more money than they know what to do with, he'd most likely strike them down with a terrible disease. Joyce Meyer = Hypocrite of the highest order. and there's 1'000's of people just like her.

It's truly sickening.

Creationists have NO proof except faith, and faith is not proof.

Evolution has alot of scientific proof to back it.

reply to post by Kicking2bears


All I am asking for is an explanation of how life on this planet both past and present is explained without evolution.

I accept those with faith feel they need no proof, they just need to be told. That would be fine except they are obviously threatened by what evolution shows them.

If you believe that a few words were spoken and every lifeform that ever was and ever will be appeared why be so afraid to say it.

Of course others with different beliefs may rebut your belief with theirs but so what.

I find it hard to believe god made everything but if you accept that why are some now saying that after the words he used evolution to produce diversity. It is god so why not just make it correct first time?

You may find on an ever changing world without evolution life on this planet would be a pretty short run race.

edit: Twobears. Thanks for the snipe but you are wrong. I live my life quite happily without the need for any god and much of my time is spent helping others. Those that choose to believe otherwise I say live and let live. I must be having an affect because now both sides see me as a threat and all I have done is asked for the roles to be swapped in this thread.

reply to post by Nola213


Evolutionism has a lot of scientific supposition to back it. No scientific facts can prove anything more than speciation.

Historians can provide countless examples that many/most of the people and place in the Bible existed.

Likewise no scientific facts can prove that the divinity of Jesus nor the existance of an all powerful creator.

Like I said, enjoy your religion of hate... I prefer religions of hope.

This is simple...evolution is driven by the same thing that drives everything else in the observable universe...time-space or space-time...just depends which side of the dream you are currently sitting on. nothing happens by mistake this is a law of nature. everything action has a reaction and energy is conserved always...so chaos isn't so much a messy randomness than it is a beautiful and very complex set of actions and reactions that never ends and based on new ideas of time is able to speed up or slow down based on these same actions and reactions...

/thread

reply to post by colin42


I think you are confusing evolutionism with evolution.

Evolutionist (often) claim that life came from nothing and then gradually grew and expanded through the categories of : Life, Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species.

While it is true that constant, ongoing and observable changes occur on the species level it does not continue beyond that point. From Genus on up there have been no constant, ongoing and observable changes.

The concept of evolution absolutely occurs on the species level. But it cannot be an effective theory of origin if it doesn't continue beyond that. Claiming that something occurs without evidence is an excellent example of Faith and Belief.

As I said, enjoy your religion, I will enjoy mine.

Edit: Colin42... I am happy to hear that you don't hold hate... it is a destructive emotion and rarely accomplishes any long term goals. Peace and goodwill my friend.

Originally posted by JustJoe
This is simple...evolution is driven by the same thing that drives everything else in the observable universe...time-space or space-time...just depends which side of the dream you are currently sitting on. nothing happens by mistake this is a law of nature. everything action has a reaction and energy is conserved always...so chaos isn't so much a messy randomness than it is a beautiful and very complex set of actions and reactions that never ends and based on new ideas of time is able to speed up or slow down based on these same actions and reactions...

/thread

If we had space and time travel we could go back (ish) and experience the original carrier wave which broadcast the universal translation of nothingness into something via the power of will and belief which originated from a consciousness of unimaginable power and origin. In other words "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

or more simply put:

Rule #1 of timetravel : Seatbelts, 'nuff said.

reply to post by vedatruth


1) Do you believe that random mutations in the genetic code can occur and that some may be harmful, some may be neutral and some may give an advantage?

2) Do you also believe that those certain genetics traits can be inherited?

If you answered yes to both, then you believe in evolution. After all, evolution is just a random mutation followed by non-random natural selection

The example of the peppered moth is a classic example of evolution in work

reply to post by Kicking2bears


TBH I have never seen or heard of any one defending evolution using it to show how life started. If they did/do they are wrong because it cannot.

As for my 'religion' Lol good try but no prize. I question any advance or change in evolution evidence as best I can and am open to change if and when it comes.

If that is a religon I suggest others in other religons do the same. Let me know how it goes.

I'm kinda confused, im to lazy to read over all of this, but shouldn't you have some form of proof at the start of this post? Who knows maybe its just dormant genes that get activated with certain conditions. but who knows? correct me if I'm wrong, maybe its just a flip being switched in our dna thats reactive.

reply to post by colin42


I am a young earth creationist. All old earth theories that we are taught as facts require some form of assumption. Most of the scientific claims for a young earth are based on scientific method without making assumptions. I know many young earth creationist make many assumptions, I do not. The science is the science and anything that cannot be explained by science, at this time, I leave to faith in God.

These first two links show the assumptions made in dealing with the age of the earth and universe and how they are anything but scientific fact. Evolutionist will sound a lot like overzealous creationist trying to argue that these are indeed facts.

www.answersingenesis.org...
www.angelfire.com...

Here is some scientific evidence for a young earth. Yes all of these have arguments against them, but if you check the arguments closely they are based on assumptions, not scientific method.

www.earthage.org...

Finally here is a great site that shows the many flaws associated with the assumptions made by evolution.

www.newgeology.us...

Remember what they say about assumptions. If we would throw out any argument that requires one to make an assumption that cannot be proven I believe we are only left with creationism. The age of the earth makes no real difference to me but I will keep my faith based in a book that I believe to be divine rather than man’s assumptions.

I used to believe the stuff I was taught as a child but I can no longer believe in a flawed system based on literally hundreds of assumptions. With Old earth and evolution I have to believe in so many unproven assumptions it gives me a headache. So the flaws in old earth and evolution are what lead me to my path. I believe both evolution and creationism should not be taught in school until college as both theories remain equally not provable. Its fundamental part of my existence that I believe in a higher power so my faith answers everything that science cannot.

Its pretty much pointless to argue this here, it results in nothing but name calling and off topic arguments.. But i would like to give my side on the topic.. I believe in evolution, but I dont believe that life started here. I believe that this planet was seeded by another, I believe a comet/asteroid hit this planet billions of years ago and on that comet was some form of microscopic life that upon impact was spread across the planet. Then from that microscopic lifeform evolution began and over a process of a few billion years modern life started to emerge.

I have a question for the creationists... If you believe god created man and woman, than who created the neanderthals? They were just like us modern humans, except they werent as smart, but broad of shoulder and had a thick brow, if god created man than why did he create a race similar to us only to kill them off? Also, how do you account for the millions of fossils still being discovered today? Also, where is the mention of dinosaurs in the bible? Im just surprised people still believe in creationism in this day and age... I know evolution isnt 100% fact but it has a LOT of scientific evidence to back it up while creationism has nothing but faith.

Evolution proved? By air breathing, walking fish? Wheres the fish the feed milk to thier young, of the wooly fish? Concrete evidence? Is that the "fossilised bones", Proove to me beyond reasonable doubt that they are really bones! There is as much proof of creation as evolution.
As mentioned before they are THEORIES.
Neither can be proven undeniably. There have been ancients documents found, thats proven, they talk of creation. Prove they are wrong, prove that we evolved, NO ONE can do this UNDENIABLY. Just have to have faith in your chosen theory...yep FAITH! LOL

Evolution = improvement, Question.. Are we all driving around in model T fords? Nope they were ok to start with but they got improved, Henry didn't create the latest Aston Martin....


This post is not meant to appear as a trolling, tho I do expect to be ranted at (because I have stated something that contravenes the chosen faith)

Originally posted by Seibei

I have a question for the creationists... If you believe god created man and woman, than who created the neanderthals? They were just like us modern humans, except they werent as smart, but broad of shoulder and had a thick brow, if god created man than why did he create a race similar to us only to kill them off? Also, how do you account for the millions of fossils still being discovered today? Also, where is the mention of dinosaurs in the bible? Im just surprised people still believe in creationism in this day and age... I know evolution isnt 100% fact but it has a LOT of scientific evidence to back it up while creationism has nothing but faith.

God actually answers your question. Isnt God great, he never lets me down.
Genisis
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

And here is a link for you. The basics to your question can be answered with this site. Warning it goes off topic into fantasy land towards the end.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by sacgamer25


I appreciate the effort, but that really didnt do anything except explain what neanderthals were... Neanderthals were not giants, they were only a little bit bigger than modern man. I was asking why god would create two species of human, if he was all knowing certainly he wouldnt need two tries. Plus that didnt answer why the bible has no mentions of dinosaurs, or the millions of fossils that we have today.

DARWIN & MONKEYS (excerpted from THE NOTEBOOKS 1943, December 20th)

Jesus says:

"One of the points at which your pride founders in error--which, above all, degrades precisely your haughtiness by giving you an origin that, if you were less corrupted by pride, you would repudiate as degrading--is that of Darwin's theory.

In order not to admit God, who, in His power, was able to have created the universe from nothing and man from the already created mud, you take the paternity of a beast as your own.

Don't you realize you are diminishing yourselves, for--consider this--won't a beast--no matter how exemplary, selected, improved, and perfected in form and instinct, and, if your wish, even in mental formation--always be a beast? Don't you realize this? This testifies unfavorably regarding your pride as pseudo-supermen.

But if you fail to realize, I will not be the one to waste words to make you aware of it and converted from the error. I ask you only one question which, in your great numbers, you have never asked yourselves. And if you can answer Me with facts, I will no longer combat this degrading theory of yours.

If man is a spin-off from the monkey, which by progressive evolution has become man, how is it that over so many years in which you have maintained this theory you have never succeeded, not even with the perfected instruments and methods at present, in making a man from a monkey? You could have taken the most intelligent offspring of a pair of intelligent moneys and then their intelligent offspring, and so on. You would now have many generations of selected, instructed monkeys cared for by the most patient, tenacious, and sagacious scientific method. But you would still have monkeys. If there happened to be a mutation, it would be this: the beasts would be physically less strong than the former ones and morally more degenerate, for, with all your methods and instruments, you would have destroyed that perfection of the monkey which My Father created for these quadrumans.

Another question. If man came from the monkey, how is it that man, even with grafts and repugnant forms of cross-fertilization, does not become a monkey again? You would be capable even of attempting these horrors if you knew that it could give approvative sanction to your theory. But you do not do so because you know that you would not be able to turn a man into a monkey. You would turn him into an ugly son of man, a degenerate, perhaps a criminal. But never a real monkey. You do not try because you know beforehand that you would get a poor result and your reputation would emerge therefrom in ruins.

For this reason you do not do so. For no other. For you feel no remorse or horror over degrading a man to the level of a beast to maintain a thesis of yours. You are capbable of this and of much more. You are already beasts because you deny God and kill the spirit, which distinguishes you from the beasts.

Your science causes Me horror. You degrade the intellect and like madmen do not even realize you are degrading it. In truth, I tell you that many of the primitive are more men than you are."



Written by Maria Valtorta



valtorta.org...



Copyright 1986 by Centro Editoriale Valtortiano, srl, Isola del Liri, Italy. All rights reserved in all countries.

Originally posted by Atzil321
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind....... God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

What category do penguins, emus, ostriches, etc. fall? Are they categorized with the winged birds that fly across the vault of the sky, or the creatures that move along the ground?

reply to post by BohemianBrim


The third option would be aliens came down from the heavens and made a new race (us). They watch after us. There you go, scenario #3