How the US Planned to Destroy Britain Just a Few Years Before World War II

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by annonymous1234
reply to post by steveknows

 

Stevedoesntknow

Hey that's constructive annomymarse 123bore.

No idea what you just said.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
WWI was stupid.
and the Great Depression sucked.

Funny you say that because the Great Depression is what made America what it is today. We went into the Great Depression a mediocre power, we came out a super power. Thank god for the 'Great Depression'.

The same goes for this depression too. During the first, major empires were on their decline and smaller empires were on their rise. Now, America is on its decline and China is on its rise. If history truly does repeat itself, fasten your seat belts. World War Three is coming to a theater near you.

Its called being a wold power. You do what you gotta do to stay on top. Just like in sports.

Its not a big deal, really. Didn't read the whole thread but I'm sure it was pointed out somewhere that the US war college and other military institutions implement war scenario's of every conceivable front that could happen as an exercise in officer training and an aid in military strategy.

In WWII one scenario might have been what if Germany overran England?
What are the options and in order to pass the course the participates must come up with a detailed plan and submit it for critique.

I need to find my WWII book from the Eisenhower Institute that gives names to a few of these scenario's which were never considered as an actual war plan, it was a classroom exercise and training tool.

The US as other ally's practiced and documented doctrine for future wars and worst case events. The US had several on Japan and Germany with codenames and recommended doctrine before the war that never were implemented because the war on the ground dictated different strategy and real time decisions.

Probably every country in the world has been included in these exercise's without actually meaning anything other than how well military planners could formulate battle strategies and outcomes to outwit an opponent.

Research the history and you'll find many such war games or startegies.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


The UK is still the largest foreign investor in the US, ahead of China and Japan. I think the special relationship has always been a matter of the bankers protecting their investment. Not directly at a political level, but the bankers wanting to protect their investments greatly influence the politicians.

reply to post by Matt1951


I certainly agree but the whole notion of "special relationship" still stands to me as a hollow expression rolled out by politicians at their convenience to suit their agenda.. however on the plus side it did restrict the chances of the US and UK coming into direct confrontation.. which can't be that bad

The good ole USA, the worst bloody country on Earth. Warmongerers, but it is now a nation in decline. Fascism has won the day.

I used to play this game called Doom. Some of you may remember it. The smart strat was to attack two people fighting one another and constantly run around gathering resources. The two people fighting one another were distracted to begin with and their health was down so they were easy targets.

Who says the US didn't come up with a better plan. One that left the US the only standing power that mattered and in a perfect position to do business with the rest of the world who's factories had been bombed out. Nah, couldn't be...

I haven't read all the posts but there are some interesting flukes in history that you guys might want to check out:

During WW1 the US was pretty pissed that the UK supported Japan as it's ally to help them take the German colonies especially in China like the siege of Tsingtao which was actually a pretty big battle in the early years of the pacific war in WW1 (the Japanese actually used the first aircraft carrier in history to bomb the colony).The UK was just using the Japs as a resource without much care about what they wanted, they just wanted to use them and not have their own expeditionary soldiers die. There were also many other small battles fought in the pacific with Japanese amphibious assaults on german colonial islands and wireless stations. What used to be German Samoa next to American Samoa turned into *New Zealand* Samoa until during WW2. Anyways because of the UK increasing Japanese influence in the Pacific where we were trying to extort our own influence really pissed off the US in the 20-30's and was one of the reasons why there was actually serious consideration with was in the UK because the US honestly believed that the UK would be thier next nemesis after WW1.

During WW1 there was the "lost Chzech legion" which was fighting on the eastern front and was stuck there when Russia pulled out of the war. They actually faught with the White Russians. And the US and Japan sent troops into Vladivostock and a town (forgot the name) in southern Siberia respectively to help the White Russians and the Lost Legion so they could return back fighting on the western front. The Lost Legion actually tracked all the way across the Eastern front in Russia fighting communists and even german POWs and even other chzechs that were communists all the way across Europe to the NE tip of Asia in Vladivostok where one of the few White Russians still had a hold out (It is rumored that the czar and his family got killed off because the communists heared the Legion was close by and was coming to their aid) But by the time they got their the armistice was already signed but the treck and fighting they had to march through must have been madening. But because of these US expeditionary forces it would later give the Soviets the claim that "We have never invaded you but on the other hand you have invaded us before, so why should we trust you in the first place?'.

In 1903 the Germans actually had a plan for an invasion of Amerika in which they were to amphibiously land on the eastern seaboard and quickly hit the important cities and areas like Wall Street in NY, Pittsburg or Philidelphia ( I think Philidelphia) along with many other industrial areas as well as the capitol. They believed the that once they knocked out the eastern seaboard they would have taken out the heart of the US bringing it down faster with less casualties.

The Russo-Japanese War was amazing as well considering it was the very first war in the 20th century usining 20th century tactics and was a prelude to WW1 (along with the defensive trench warfare around Confederate cities during the late Civil War), They had everything in their arsenal which are used in modern warfare except tanks, and airplanes even though they were invented 2 years earlier but by all accounts I have not found anything to validate this. But they did use subs and predreadnaughts along with Krupp guns, mortars, "Big Berthas", derigibles etc...

Also there was the Irish attempt for independence during WW1 in which an Irishman in a group that was forerunner to the IRA ran guns from Germany to Ireland (there are even pictures of his return with much applause). The Germans were supposed to bomb London with Dirigibles after a destoyer would show up off the coast with even heavier guns (which the Irish missed). Using the Dirigibles as distractions was not approved by the Kaiser but the gun shipment was even tho the Irish never got it. However there was a battle in Dublin when the Irish rose up with 1000 guns. The ringleaders were later rounded up and executed and turned into martyrs.

Originally posted by Swing80s
There were also many other small battles fought in the pacific with Japanese amphibious assaults on german colonial islands and wireless stations.

What used to be German Samoa next to American Samoa turned into Japanese Samoa until during WW2.

German Samoa was invaded by New Zealand troops, and remained a New Zealand "protectorate" until independance in 1962. Any Samoans born before then are also automaticallky New Zealand citizens.

en.wikipedia.org...

In WW1 Japan occupied the Mariana, Carolin and Marshall Islands without resistance. They also contributed a squadron of 17 vessels to escort operations in hte Mediterranean, based from Malta.

Anyways because of the UK increasing Japanese influence in the Pacific where we were trying to extort our own influence really pissed off the US in the 20-30's and was one of the reasons why there was actually serious consideration with was in the UK because the US honestly believed that the UK would be thier next nemesis after WW1.

there were war plans that included the possibility of the UK as an enemy - to call them "totall serious" is a "totally serious" overstatement! - en.wikipedia.org...

The story of the Czech legion is a good one - en.wikipedia.org...

Actually you're right I forgot to mention that. Especially considering my ex auzzie-NZ gf visited and stayed in NZ samoa for awhile. But there were battles in the pacfic, I believe some of WW1's first casualties involved New Zealands who actually died (7 I believe) while attacking a German radio station. There was also the Germans in the solomon islands that eluded capture from the NZ's for a long time, can't remember if they surrendered or not.

What is funny though is that German commander in SW Africa that stayed fighting in Africa through guerilla tactics during the entire war, after all the other German African colonies fell, even using his destroyers turets as artillery positions and nearly got ressuplied via Zeppelin during WW1. He kept fighting after WW1 until a Commonwealth soldier under a banner of truce came to deliver him a letter saying the war was over, Germany lost, and he should go home now lol. I think that was in 1919 so essentially he kept up the fight one more year than he was supposed to haha now that's a die-hard.

What also is neat is some of the Boer-War veterans actually rose up in SA to help aid the Germans.

Originally posted by Swing80s
Actually you're right I forgot to mention that. Especially considering my ex auzzie-NZ gf visited and stayed in NZ samoa for awhile. But there were battles in the pacfic, I believe some of WW1's first casualties involved New Zealands who actually died (7 I believe) while attacking a German radio station. There was also the Germans in the solomon islands that eluded capture from the NZ's for a long time, can't remember if they surrendered or not.

You're probably thinking of the Australian invasions of New Guinea & Rabaul - - 6 Aussies were killed in the battle of Bita Paka

What is funny though is that German commander in SW Africa that stayed fighting in Africa through guerilla tactics during the entire war, after all the other German African colonies fell, even using his destroyers turets as artillery positions and nearly got ressuplied via Zeppelin during WW1. He kept fighting after WW1 until a Commonwealth soldier under a banner of truce came to deliver him a letter saying the war was over, Germany lost, and he should go home now lol. I think that was in 1919 so essentially he kept up the fight one more year than he was supposed to haha now that's a die-hard.

A good story....but not true. von Lettow-Vorbeck was notified of the Armistice on 14 November 1918, and surrendered his force on 23 November of that year.

What also is neat is some of the Boer-War veterans actually rose up in SA to help aid the Germans.

The Maritz Rebellion - crushed by 32,000 south African troops, 20,000 of whom were Boer, and commanded by Smuts and Botha - former Boer commanders.

the USA planned on destroying Great Britain?

Maybe in some alternative Universe.. Last I checked back in the early 30's the United states was run by a president who was a centrist and believed in Isolationism... That is coming from the education I paid for and the one That money cannot buy...




Yet who knows, considering in 1936 Germany, got away with murder....

www.time.com... Man of the year.. LOL

who knows maybe your right..

Originally posted by ModernAcademia



Imagine how different the world would be today if that actually happened?

What do you guys think, how would the world be today if this plan actually went into execution?

Well, if the end result was to be the US as a new Superpower, with Europe and Canada's manufacturing infrastructure nonexistent, I'd say the way things worked out arent much different than if they went that way.

According to the plan, Canadian troops stationed in Pacific Command in Western Canada would immediately be sent to seize Seattle, Washington; When resistance stiffened, the Canadians would retreat to their own borders, destroying bridges and railways to hinder American pursuit. The purpose of the invasion would be to allow time for Canada to prepare its war effort and to receive aid from Britain, or to limit the American invasion before the US government opted to discontinue the incursions.

That doesnt seem like a very good maneuver, as it would justify the american invasion, would it not?

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by stumason
I will also point out that the Candaians had their own plans too. It just shows that all countries planners will envisage any possible scenario, because you just never know. Better to be prepared and not need it, than to need it and not be prepared.

You can also note that Canada's was a 'defensive' plan...as opposed to the US's 'offensive' plan.

A subtle, but telling difference.

Not exactly.

"Maintaining that the best defense was a good offense, "Buster" Brown planned for rapid deployment of flying columns to occupy Seattle, Great Falls, Minneapolis, and Albany."

Sounds like an offense. A "pre-emptive" action.

I don't get why there are so many wars

The German Schutztruppe (African colonial army) were the last German forces to surrender in World War I and the only one that was never defeated on the battlefield. 17,000 German troops (which only 3,000 were Europeans) held off 250,000 British, French, South African, Indian, Portuguese, and Belgian troops for the entire war. It's a very interesting story and one that isent very well known. Lettow-Vorbeck commanded the German Army in Africa and he was the only German general in World War I to get a victory parade through Berlin in 1919.

The Germans also had colonial troops in Asia (China) and on the Pacific islands.